BA...That's It, I've Had Enough
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BA...That's It, I've Had Enough
Major rant about to start ,you have been warned:
From 1993 to 1998 and 2000 to date, I have flown premium cabins with BA. I have the cards, I have the miles for which I am grateful. In return, my company has spent around £450-500k in that time on fares..just for me. It's a lot but it's part of my job.
So what's the problem? Well, I have watched while a great airline has just let itself go. Just four or five years ago, Club was a good service. New bed system, good menu selection, nice attentive service. Just what you expect for £3K plus. Now, dirty seats and cabins, limited menus, an hillarious shrinking washbag and indifferent crew who have been obviously told on day one training that pax are thickos and should be treated as such.... Get on the plane, drink-drink, food, drink, duty free, zipcurtains shut, goodbye. To be fair, most are OK but some, stunningly rude at times. Example one: Flight from India, little old indian lady sitting behind me in Club. Offered fruit by female Purser. LOL obviously feels an apple or something..."No NO!" says Purser in loud voice, "If you touch it you take it!". £4700 service?
Example two: returning from Moscow. Not one CC spoke Russian and not one announcement was made in Russian. When we landed in London a number of Club Pax turned on phones..normal practice in Moscow. Male CC shrieked from his seat for phones to be off. Of course, some pax did not understand. CC then stood up walked to pax and told him "the authorities will be called when we stop". Pax still did not understand but was saved by neighbour who translated. Worst thing? Club had about 5 female CC (I guess CC because of the way they were talking to crew) in "plain clothes" who had been drinking in the lounge before the flight and hit the champers during...they decided to clap and cheer when CC shouted at PAX. £1500 service?
Interminable PA's from Captains being told to tell pax every five minutes that we are going to land ahead of schedule...then we land and have to wait thirty minutes for gate crew to arrive. All goes very quiet up the front then....
Last straw yesterday. Try to use the website to book flight to Moscow. Very slow and finally message saying system is down, contact local office. Flight booked perfectly then told £15 charge because I have not booked online! I won't bore you anymore with the discussion with duty manager, customer relations etc. All agreed it was wrong but (hands wringing) can't do anything about it....
I could go on ad nauseum but, if you've read this far, you are probably nauseumed out.
If by some chance any management is reading, this is why I am leaving you. I've tried to excuse the behaviour, I've tried to stick with you since 9/11 and all the problems you've encountered since then but, in the end it comes down to the way you treat people. You've stopped putting the customer first..so, goodbye.
To the fun CC who enjoy their job and make a trip go by easily....thanks!
Rant over.
From 1993 to 1998 and 2000 to date, I have flown premium cabins with BA. I have the cards, I have the miles for which I am grateful. In return, my company has spent around £450-500k in that time on fares..just for me. It's a lot but it's part of my job.
So what's the problem? Well, I have watched while a great airline has just let itself go. Just four or five years ago, Club was a good service. New bed system, good menu selection, nice attentive service. Just what you expect for £3K plus. Now, dirty seats and cabins, limited menus, an hillarious shrinking washbag and indifferent crew who have been obviously told on day one training that pax are thickos and should be treated as such.... Get on the plane, drink-drink, food, drink, duty free, zipcurtains shut, goodbye. To be fair, most are OK but some, stunningly rude at times. Example one: Flight from India, little old indian lady sitting behind me in Club. Offered fruit by female Purser. LOL obviously feels an apple or something..."No NO!" says Purser in loud voice, "If you touch it you take it!". £4700 service?
Example two: returning from Moscow. Not one CC spoke Russian and not one announcement was made in Russian. When we landed in London a number of Club Pax turned on phones..normal practice in Moscow. Male CC shrieked from his seat for phones to be off. Of course, some pax did not understand. CC then stood up walked to pax and told him "the authorities will be called when we stop". Pax still did not understand but was saved by neighbour who translated. Worst thing? Club had about 5 female CC (I guess CC because of the way they were talking to crew) in "plain clothes" who had been drinking in the lounge before the flight and hit the champers during...they decided to clap and cheer when CC shouted at PAX. £1500 service?
Interminable PA's from Captains being told to tell pax every five minutes that we are going to land ahead of schedule...then we land and have to wait thirty minutes for gate crew to arrive. All goes very quiet up the front then....
Last straw yesterday. Try to use the website to book flight to Moscow. Very slow and finally message saying system is down, contact local office. Flight booked perfectly then told £15 charge because I have not booked online! I won't bore you anymore with the discussion with duty manager, customer relations etc. All agreed it was wrong but (hands wringing) can't do anything about it....
I could go on ad nauseum but, if you've read this far, you are probably nauseumed out.
If by some chance any management is reading, this is why I am leaving you. I've tried to excuse the behaviour, I've tried to stick with you since 9/11 and all the problems you've encountered since then but, in the end it comes down to the way you treat people. You've stopped putting the customer first..so, goodbye.
To the fun CC who enjoy their job and make a trip go by easily....thanks!
Rant over.
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My sympathies, strake, you may have been a little unlucky in your 'choice' of cabin crew, but I don't think you'll find many travellers (whether in F, C or Y) who would argue that the BA experience has improved over the last several years. Unless we vote with our tickets, it's unlikely to change.
A big problem, however, is who are you going to change to? On the two routes you mention, the obvious competitiors with direct flights are Air India and Aeroflot - neither of whom would be obvious choices to offer an improved level of service. The criticisms you level at BA could equally be applied to many of the European flag carriers and the US majors too - I'd probably choose BA in preference to most of these. The only destinations where we've got a serious choice are those served by Virgin and the middle/far east (where I probably wouldn't have chosen BA anyhow). What I'm really trying to say is that they may have us over a barrel!
The hilarious shrinking washbag is a typical beancounter's solution. There was an interesting thread a while ago about the cost of these items which, if memory serves, came up with figures in the range of £25-£50 (sounded a lot to me, at the time). It's easy for someone to say "let's save £1 per bag" - multiply that by the number of C & F seats and you're looking at savings of many thousands, maybe even millions per year. Fat bonuses all round for the beancounters in question! The problem is that if you dissuade 0.1% of your customers from flying with you at £3-5K per seat, you've just made a thumping great loss, but no-one can directly attribute that to the washbag ...
A big problem, however, is who are you going to change to? On the two routes you mention, the obvious competitiors with direct flights are Air India and Aeroflot - neither of whom would be obvious choices to offer an improved level of service. The criticisms you level at BA could equally be applied to many of the European flag carriers and the US majors too - I'd probably choose BA in preference to most of these. The only destinations where we've got a serious choice are those served by Virgin and the middle/far east (where I probably wouldn't have chosen BA anyhow). What I'm really trying to say is that they may have us over a barrel!
The hilarious shrinking washbag is a typical beancounter's solution. There was an interesting thread a while ago about the cost of these items which, if memory serves, came up with figures in the range of £25-£50 (sounded a lot to me, at the time). It's easy for someone to say "let's save £1 per bag" - multiply that by the number of C & F seats and you're looking at savings of many thousands, maybe even millions per year. Fat bonuses all round for the beancounters in question! The problem is that if you dissuade 0.1% of your customers from flying with you at £3-5K per seat, you've just made a thumping great loss, but no-one can directly attribute that to the washbag ...
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Pax,
Funnily enough, it's something as daft as the washbag that pushes people away. Not because it is important but because it provides such a wonderful metaphor to the overall service.
As you ask, the sectors I fly regularly are Miami, Tokyo, Boston and Philly so, no real problem there. I agree the alternatives to my other two destinations, New Delhi and Moscow are a little limited. Maybe I have to swallow my outrage for those...
Funnily enough, it's something as daft as the washbag that pushes people away. Not because it is important but because it provides such a wonderful metaphor to the overall service.
As you ask, the sectors I fly regularly are Miami, Tokyo, Boston and Philly so, no real problem there. I agree the alternatives to my other two destinations, New Delhi and Moscow are a little limited. Maybe I have to swallow my outrage for those...
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Disagree on Aeroflot. In the same way that BA has gone down Aeroflot has gone up. In terms of value for money my friends who have flown both tell me there is absolutely no contest these days between Aeroflot and BA: Aeroflot wins every time. Their premium cabin service is, apparently, excellent.
Paxing All Over The World
I am not familiar with this route and have not been to India so have to admit that I am guessing that 'New Delhi' is the same as 'Delhi'??
Virgin Atlantic operate:-
LHR to DEL as VS 300
Wed; Fri; Sun. Dpt: 22:00 arr: 11:45 next day
DEL to LHR as VS 301
Mon; Thurs; Sat. Dpt: 14:00 arr: 17:40
Not sure what a/c operates this route as I could not immediately locate it on the VS website. They used to serve Moscow but have not done so for a few years now.
For the record, I am not (nor ever have been) an employee of Virgin Atlantic, simply a satisfied customer for whom VS has been my first choice of long haul for 17 years. I have travelled in all cabins and they get my vote. Upper Class is fabbo!
Their flyer miles scheme (Flying Club) is also more flexible in how I can use them but that is a minor point.
Let us know how you get on.
Virgin Atlantic operate:-
LHR to DEL as VS 300
Wed; Fri; Sun. Dpt: 22:00 arr: 11:45 next day
DEL to LHR as VS 301
Mon; Thurs; Sat. Dpt: 14:00 arr: 17:40
Not sure what a/c operates this route as I could not immediately locate it on the VS website. They used to serve Moscow but have not done so for a few years now.
For the record, I am not (nor ever have been) an employee of Virgin Atlantic, simply a satisfied customer for whom VS has been my first choice of long haul for 17 years. I have travelled in all cabins and they get my vote. Upper Class is fabbo!
Their flyer miles scheme (Flying Club) is also more flexible in how I can use them but that is a minor point.
Let us know how you get on.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
VS to DEL appears to be on a 343 (A340-300). There should be an Air India code on every flight, as this is a zombie codeshare with AI (ie actually operating AI traffic rights).
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Sorry to hear you're leaving us, Strake. I'm not in management, but I do empathise. I am a firm believer that costs need to be controlled, but not to the extent that your customers notice - unless they're paying lower fares of course.
Indeed, the CEO of my wife's airline publicly laughs at BA's trimming the washbag:
"...If BA are paying for the amenity kit, there's something wrong! Every other airline gets the samples free of charge! Indeed, in some cases, airlines are paid to include the manufacturers' samples!"
Perhaps we should dump Molton Brown and the designer crapola and obtain normal, everyday items and then pack our amenity kits to the brim!
Indeed, the CEO of my wife's airline publicly laughs at BA's trimming the washbag:
"...If BA are paying for the amenity kit, there's something wrong! Every other airline gets the samples free of charge! Indeed, in some cases, airlines are paid to include the manufacturers' samples!"
Perhaps we should dump Molton Brown and the designer crapola and obtain normal, everyday items and then pack our amenity kits to the brim!
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I've left to...
And the crazy thing is I have a relation who can get me cheaper flights with BA. Quite sadly my boycott even extends to not going on the BA sponsored London Eye, and I tell my friends why - a very bad expereince on BA.
About 10 years ago I found a cube of glass in my meal, and was as good as accused of putting it there myself by the CC / purser.
One disattisfied customer used to be estimated to tell five friends, but through mediums such as this that has increased dramatically.
Just get me there safely, in a comfortable seat, and treat me like a human being who is actually paying you.
About 10 years ago I found a cube of glass in my meal, and was as good as accused of putting it there myself by the CC / purser.
One disattisfied customer used to be estimated to tell five friends, but through mediums such as this that has increased dramatically.
Just get me there safely, in a comfortable seat, and treat me like a human being who is actually paying you.
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Glad to hear that Aeroflot have improved. My experience with them was back in the USSR (cue for a song) days - there was only one direction they could go from there!
I have recently heard reports of the following conversation, however:
Aeroflot hostie: "Dinner, sir?"
Pax: "What's the choice?"
Hostie: "You either eat it or you don't."
Probably apocryphal
I have recently heard reports of the following conversation, however:
Aeroflot hostie: "Dinner, sir?"
Pax: "What's the choice?"
Hostie: "You either eat it or you don't."
Probably apocryphal
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I have not stepped foot on a BA plane in over 10 years! Do not intend to start now. There are plenty of good airlines out there who I prefer to give my money too. I have even paid more to avoid BA and will continue to do so.
Poor customer service is the main reason. Unfortunately for BA once you loose a customer it is harder to get them back... Happy customers equals revenue, something BA seem to have forgotten.
Poor customer service is the main reason. Unfortunately for BA once you loose a customer it is harder to get them back... Happy customers equals revenue, something BA seem to have forgotten.
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Sounds like a similar catalogue of events to ours that caused us to ditch BA for good some years ago
The Moscow service has always been awful on BA, a friend had same probs changing a flight reservation and buying a fresh ticket with the BA office in MOW he said it was a nightmare
Aeroflot is ok never had a bad flight, average twice a month for 2 years
The Moscow service has always been awful on BA, a friend had same probs changing a flight reservation and buying a fresh ticket with the BA office in MOW he said it was a nightmare
Aeroflot is ok never had a bad flight, average twice a month for 2 years
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Pax Vobiscum: I have recently heard reports of the following conversation, however:
Aeroflot hostie: "Dinner, sir?"
Pax: "What's the choice?"
Hostie: "You either eat it or you don't."
Probably apocryphal
Aeroflot hostie: "Dinner, sir?"
Pax: "What's the choice?"
Hostie: "You either eat it or you don't."
Probably apocryphal
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Strake,
I am certain that the ANO specifies that a passenger must obey any lawful command from the aircraft's captain. I have heard other tales of CC making threats of action
The most memorable was that of a passenger on a BA flight to Germany who brought his own food and drink on board and was then told he was breaking the law and that if he consumed his own refreshments, he would be arrested when the aircraft arrived.
Perhaps Flying Lawyer could clarify the issue but I certain these threats have absolutely no legal foundation.
Unfortunately, most pax understandably feel that they are not in control when they are on board an aircraft and are intimidated by situations such as these.
There again, you get stupid pax who stand up before the aircraft has stopped...
My current favourites are SAS and Finnair. Clean aircraft, courteous staff.
CC then stood up walked to pax and told him "the authorities will be called when we stop"
by authorites wwhen we get to the gate
Perhaps Flying Lawyer could clarify the issue but I certain these threats have absolutely no legal foundation.
Unfortunately, most pax understandably feel that they are not in control when they are on board an aircraft and are intimidated by situations such as these.
There again, you get stupid pax who stand up before the aircraft has stopped...
My current favourites are SAS and Finnair. Clean aircraft, courteous staff.
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Bus429
You are, of course, correct about the ANO. However, the aircraft commander would have made a lawful command about the use of mobile 'phones at the beginning of the flight. Part of the cabin crew's duty is to ensure that the flight is conducted safely and they are presumably empowered by the aircraft commander to enforce his lawful commands. Even if they are not, an offence will have been committed and the cabin crew are entitled to report it to the police.
This is not to say that I support the behaviour described.
You are, of course, correct about the ANO. However, the aircraft commander would have made a lawful command about the use of mobile 'phones at the beginning of the flight. Part of the cabin crew's duty is to ensure that the flight is conducted safely and they are presumably empowered by the aircraft commander to enforce his lawful commands. Even if they are not, an offence will have been committed and the cabin crew are entitled to report it to the police.
This is not to say that I support the behaviour described.
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I agree that the behaviour of the CC was inappropriate - however, authority of the captain in the cabin is (for the most part) delegated to the cabin crew - and, for that matter, the no smoking and fasten seat belt signs.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I flew with BA last Saturday (7/2/04) from LHR to SYD via SIN. Got there nice and early so I could check in and then do some shopping airside. Got to the desk and was told that they couldn't check me in because the flight was overbooked and I'd have to wait till 21:00. I wandered to the desk they told me to go to #26 I think.
I was nice and pleasant although not really looking forward to the chance of my plans going awry. (Hadn't seen Mum in 2 years etc). Any way, didn't give the chap grief, got a free coffee voucher and waited my turn.
Either my luck was in or my pleasant demeanor worked. I got on the flight. Admittedly, couldn't do the shopping I wanted but I did a quick shop at SIN so all in all happy.
I just figured it wasn't the check-in staff's fault so there was no use in hurling abuse at them.
The flight was fine, it got me there. Although I think I will pay extra for more leg room next time.
I was nice and pleasant although not really looking forward to the chance of my plans going awry. (Hadn't seen Mum in 2 years etc). Any way, didn't give the chap grief, got a free coffee voucher and waited my turn.
Either my luck was in or my pleasant demeanor worked. I got on the flight. Admittedly, couldn't do the shopping I wanted but I did a quick shop at SIN so all in all happy.
I just figured it wasn't the check-in staff's fault so there was no use in hurling abuse at them.
The flight was fine, it got me there. Although I think I will pay extra for more leg room next time.
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Try Tel Aviv, the BA ground staff are notorious liars (you ask to sit in either row 6 or 7 and are regularly told that in this part of the cabin the IFE system doesn't work - when they really want to keep it as a crew rest area), the BA CC cabins are grubby and tatty on the 767.
I also flew from DME recently when the ground crew refused to check my baggage through to Manchester even though I had a valid connection. I was told the flight was going to be late and had to rebook my connection myself and it was tough about my baggage, it would go to London.
I remember when it was good to fly the flag - no more. Unfortunately I find it difficult to book alternatives due to equally bad service - KLM and AF are just as horrible, not to mention Lufthansa.
I also flew from DME recently when the ground crew refused to check my baggage through to Manchester even though I had a valid connection. I was told the flight was going to be late and had to rebook my connection myself and it was tough about my baggage, it would go to London.
I remember when it was good to fly the flag - no more. Unfortunately I find it difficult to book alternatives due to equally bad service - KLM and AF are just as horrible, not to mention Lufthansa.
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I am the same, i will try to avoid BA as much as possible. My parents had the good humour to move to Shetland for a few years and the only airline in those days was BA who charged a whopping £360 for a 40 min flight. When Loganair, Buisness Air decided to have a go, good old BA dropped the prices until the airlines pulled out, then jump the prices back up. The other trick up their sleave was if the flight was half empty the would either merge two flights together or cancel the flight due to a tec reason and delay it until the morning, which was usually full causing sheer pandmonium the next day dispite it being a scheduled service. Also the courtious BA refuses to give any compensastion, vouchers to PAX stranded at ABZ or LSI (aberdeen/sumburgh) when flights are canceled dispite Shetland having some of the countries most notorious weather conditions, they make no concessions. BA just seem to keep their heads in the sand hoping Pax will choose them because of the pretty flag on the tail!!
Im on a right rant now......
Lufthansa, will also never fly again. While flying out to Frankfurt from Phillidelphia i was stranded in the aircraft in for 5 hours due to a thunderstorm, there was no APU or ground unit, so the cabin was dark and cold, the crew wouldn't let us move about in the cabin or did they offer any drinks. The cabin crew did a Pam Ann set a trolley up touched it went back to the galley, touched the trolley, back to the galley. They did this for hours!!! When we finally got in the air there was no apology even though i was going to miss my connection, and dissapointed to watch the same in flight movie that was shown on the previous inbound flight. Do i need to comment about the german food? (no offence to any germans but) One more thing and im done. Is it usuall paractice by Frankfurt or Lufthansa not to display the gate until -40, only by the time you get to the gate they've changed it again. Or when your ticket says the departure time of the aircraft and you arrive at the gate around an hour before that time to find your flight is boarding!!!! (taking into account time differences) or worse not even to display the flight info at all and you spend all day looking for the gate.
After posting the longest post in pprune history I feel better now thank you.
Im on a right rant now......
Lufthansa, will also never fly again. While flying out to Frankfurt from Phillidelphia i was stranded in the aircraft in for 5 hours due to a thunderstorm, there was no APU or ground unit, so the cabin was dark and cold, the crew wouldn't let us move about in the cabin or did they offer any drinks. The cabin crew did a Pam Ann set a trolley up touched it went back to the galley, touched the trolley, back to the galley. They did this for hours!!! When we finally got in the air there was no apology even though i was going to miss my connection, and dissapointed to watch the same in flight movie that was shown on the previous inbound flight. Do i need to comment about the german food? (no offence to any germans but) One more thing and im done. Is it usuall paractice by Frankfurt or Lufthansa not to display the gate until -40, only by the time you get to the gate they've changed it again. Or when your ticket says the departure time of the aircraft and you arrive at the gate around an hour before that time to find your flight is boarding!!!! (taking into account time differences) or worse not even to display the flight info at all and you spend all day looking for the gate.
After posting the longest post in pprune history I feel better now thank you.
Last edited by EasyBaby; 15th Feb 2004 at 07:07.
