Hunter Valley Aviation (BASAIR)
 

I am looking into CPL courses and I'm looking for some thoughts on Hunter Valley Aviation and their Diploma courses. I would also like to ask for peoples' thoughts on VET student loans also and is it a good option to go?

I see that basair also offer a combined course for CPL and MECIR that can all be covered under VET loans but from what I calculate is that this when end up having a greater debt than if I done the courses separately so probably better doing them separate unless there is a greater benefit for me doing the combined course?

Just my thoughts... probably not the best time in aviation history to be taking on a huge debt to fund a dream of flying. But then glass half full view, eventually there will be a bounce back and demand. Tought call if anyone is in your shoes. Personally if it was me, I would start slow and self fund to give me time to get to PPL and see where the industry has moved in that time.

Getting my CPL Late in Life, is it worth the Effort?
 

Hello All

I posted this Thread to ask a Simple Question

I am 31 Yrs Old, a Truck Driver, and have a massive Dream of being a Commercial Pilot.

Now due to Personal Constraints, if I tried my Hardest, I won't be ready to start my CPL Course until I am around 34, 33 if I really Push it.

My Simple Question is this
Is it going to be worth it (Career Wise) to get my CPL so Late? I have been told that 35 is the ultimate cut-off.... so I thought I'd ask People who are in the Field, stick my feelers out and see what you Guys/Girls Think.

Thank you for any and all your Responces.

Depends what your dreams are. To be a jet captain at a major airline in Australia? Yeah, it's probably too late. To have a rewarding career in GA, corporate or regional. Plenty of time. You'll need to manage financial expectations appropriately.

Hey mate,

Im 49 and have almost finished my PPL and have just made a booking for my first CPL exam, ive spoken to various people in the industry and all have given nothing but encouragement and said go for it. Obviously wont have any chance of getting into the airlines but that's not what i want, my plan is to fly GA commercially for as long as i can retain a class 1 med and enjoy being in the air.

What the F makes you think 35 is too late?! Get a grip mate. Do you want to spend 30 years as a pilot or 30 years wishing you'd tried it?

Cool, any Financial Expectation you'd recommend Considering? Except for the Obvious of course, like actually doing the Course.

Thank you for your Response NTJosh, yeah that's very Encouraging, and Good Luck with your Career.

Very well spoken Rudestuff, I hear what you're saying about spending 30yrs with Regret!!
Thank you

Just gotta take the first step mate, i actually started my PPL with the aim of going commercial back in 2002, logged just over 30hrs and had completed my PPL theory exam. I got made redundant and then the only flying school where i was living closed down. Never got back into it and before you know it near on 20yrs have passed.

If its what you want do it mate, times goes past way to fast..ill have regrets that i didn't do it earlier..but i wont have the larger regrets of not doing it at all..!

Anybody have any advice on how to make the most of your CPL hour building? Based in Melbourne.

My situation: 107 hours TT, RPC with Cross Country endorsement, and RPL conversion. Skipping PPL. All 7 CPL subjects complete. Most of my hours are in RA aircraft, no controlled airspace experience yet.

Obviously I just need to get hour there and start grinding those 100 PIC hours, but when should I start working on CPL manoeuvres in a complex type? When do I tackle controlled airspace? Roughly how many hours of dual should I be planning on in the leadup to the flight test?

Cheers.

I would get a CTA endorsement as soon as you can and spend time doing navs and trips to prepare for CPL. Get an instructor to do a nav with you to show you what is expected and work towards that. More time in the machine you will do your test in the better. I’ve generally found 15-20 hours is needed to get up to CPL standard if the student has been pushing themselves during their hour building, more if they’ve spent most the time doing circuits and flying in the training area.

Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north Go up north!

Nobody asked a question but I need a platform to let this out. After hearing and speaking to a lot of CPL students and graduates it's disappointing to hear their plans post CPL. Furthermore the answer to a lot of the questions in this thread and a lot of the new questions will be answered with ^.

- Go up north doesn't mean fly into Darwin for a week then fly home disappointed and complain about no jobs
- Go up north doesn't mean go up to Queensland
- Go up north doesn't mean sit in the city, call/email every GA operator and obsess over the hour requirements on their website. Front the F up with a paper resume!
- Yes, go north means to sacrifice your life in the city close to family and friends. Wtf did you think you were gonna do when you signed up to do your licence?
- Go up north applies regardless of worldwide situation. Economy munted? Go up north. Pandemic? Go up north.

Wollongong Flight Schools
 

Hi,
I'm interested in getting a RPL/PPL for pure GA (personal) purposes. I'm located in Wollongong and there are two flight schools here it seems - a Five Point Aviation and NSW Air Flight Training. I haven't been able to find out much about the former, and the latter garnered some pretty bad rep when it was managed by the previous administration. Nonetheless, it seems like NSW Air has new management in and I do wonder if they've cleaned up their act.

Does anyone have any particular recommendation or experience with these two schools?

NSWAir, great owner and great experienced instructors (I may be biased). PM if you have more questions.

RPL vs PPL and Help with Flying School - Sydney
 

Note to the mods - Please don't merge this with an existing thread as its hard to get the relevant replies

Hi guys,
I hope all of you and your loved ones are safe.

Like most of us I always wanted to fly and pursue flying as a career. But unfortunately that didn't work out (my IQ, finances, nationality, age, etc.)
But I refuse to die before doing at least 1 solo and ideally renting an airplane and fly to Gold coast with my partner and our puppy.

So I have decided to pursue flying as a hobby. My questions are -

1. What is the difference between a RPL and PPL?
I couldn't figure out the difference on the websites of flying schools. My end goal is to be able to rent an airplane and fly around Australia with my partner.

2. Can I do PPL without RPL. Reason for asking is it will be great to leave option open for CPL. Who knows my Crypto investments get x100 returns and I can retire early with tonnes of cash :p

3. I live and work in Sydney. Relocating is not an option. Which are the top 3 flying schools I should reach out to. Please send me a PM if this is not allowed to be discussed on the open forum.

4. I am 39 years old and assuming that this should not be a showstopper for RPL or PPL

Looking forward for your help and support.

Thank you,
Kind regards.

Short answer is if you want to fly around Australia you'll want a PPL. RPL has cross country endorsements but realistically there are too many restrictions to make it a practical choice to circumnavigate the country.

Welcome.

1. In short, there are three licence types common to recreational flyers:

The first is RA-Aus certificate, which is not issued by CASA. It is a cheaper way to learn to fly but there are some restrictions. You are limited to one passenger. Not recognised internationally either. RA-Aus are a self-administering body that you have to be a member of.

The second is the CASA Part 61 RPL. It is similar to a PPL, but with some restrictions. It is also, as far as I'm aware, not recognised internationally. So if you wanted to fly in the USA they don't recognise this licence type.

The third is the CASA Part 61 PPL. The minimum hours required is higher than an RPL, but the privileges are greater. If you fly internationally it will be recognised as a private licence equivalent.

Your goal of flying around Australia can be done on any of the above types, although you will need navigation, controlled airport, and controlled airspace endorsements unless you hold a PPL.

2. You sure can. You don't need to do the RPL theory exam or flight test if you then go on to do the PPL theory exam and flight test, although the minimum aeronautical experience to sit the PPL flight test is higher than the RPL.

3. Google is your friend. Avoid anywhere where you have to pay up front. Interview the flight instructor and if you're not happy, don't spend your money there - it's a lot, after all!If you're on the northside, I'd strongly recommend the ~1 hour drive to Central Coast Aero Club - uncrowded airspace, good fleet, experienced instructors.

4. Your age is no problem. Don't give up on your career dreams either! Whilst it doesn't get any easier with age, many people have changed careers in the late thirties, fourties, and later to fly professionally. It can be done, it's just a slog. But you also bring life experience which many very young, very green CPL grads lack...

Good luck!

I would strongly agree with the first part of this. Avoid paying up front like the plague. So many stories over the years of people losing their money as schools go bust. PAYG might end up marginally more expensive, but that's preferable to losing a big wad of cash.

But I would respectfully disagree with the last part. Learning at a busy capital city airport like Bankstown sets you up well to handle busy / complex airspace and procedures for the future. If you're planning to travel around the country you will inevitably come across these scenarios and having spent all your training time in that environment will make you a lot more comfortable. I fully appreciate the points Magnum has made but from my own experience, think Bankstown would be a better bet. All a matter of opinion though.

Best of luck though. Learning to fly is a fantastic experience.

Flyer517, I'm glad we can have a healthy debate. :8

I've flown in/at BK plenty of times on navexes.

I think the downside to Bankstown is that you often spend far too long waiting on the ground. For the benefit of the OP, if the engine is on - you're paying! Long wait times at the holding point are problematic.

I agree that getting comfortable in CTA at a busy class D is not necessarily a bad thing. That said, I find it amusing how many people who have learned to fly at a Class D airfield struggle when they go to a busy CTAF!

If you are closer to south side of Sydney, Camden is a good option. It is class D so you get CTA experience but the aerodrome is in the middle of the training area so it minimises transit time and typical taxi/hold times are usually much shorter than Bankstown.

When checking schools, visit and see how comfortable you are with them and perhaps book a TIF (trial instructional flight) to give them a try. One bit of advice I would also give, if a school asks for pre-payment for training or offer fixed price training, be wary.

Don't even consider payment up front, no matter how attractive the deal. Off spring was at a school in Port Macquarie where such a deal was offered for an instrument rating, no thanks, company closed its doors within weeks, bar stewards were still cashing the cheques of those they had conned on the day they declared bankruptcy. Shortly before closure off spring had done some local flying at home in one of the schools aircraft, made arrangements with the local refueller (aero club) that I would honour any fuel costs incurred that they couldn't recover, and it came to pass. Wish I had they same foresight in picking the lotto numbers.

Which path to take?
 

Hi all. New here and hoping I've found a new online home!

I am just about to (re)start on my piloting journey and am trying to decide whether to jump straight in onto a CPL path or stick with the PPL path. Deciding to do my CPL now, at the beginning, would work out a little cheaper in the long run.

My main goal, like anyone here I'd imagine, is to just be in the air as much as possible. I don't necessarily want to become a commercial pilot but I do want to find any reason I can to be flying once I have my licence.

I know that I can buy a share in a plane and/or hire one once I have my licence but would it be more economical to go with my CPL and get a part time job that would involve flying?

I know that most answers will be opinion based but its those opinions based on experience that will help me decide. Thanks in advance :)

Sydney Flight School recommendations
 

Hi, newbie here,
I'm 51 and an interested in getting RPL or PPL on weekends for just recreational purposes.
I live in Sydney's east so Bankstown would be my closest option - could consider Camden, but is is nearly 90mins away.
Please offer up your recommendations for flight schools and anything else I should consider along the way, such any medical issues for my age etc
I'm happy with PM's or replies here - what ever is most appropriate.
nice to be part of this community - thanks
reynos

Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?

Learn to fly would be the best option out of the others. New and modernised fleet, good instructors and a great environment to be in. Something you could try do is a TIF at the school and see how you feel with instructors.

From what I understand LTF have only just recently started offering fee help loans, and the course descriptor on their website doesn't mention what aircraft you'll be flying. So while all the pictures in the brochure show the DA40/42 I suspect you'll find yourself in the 172s and Seminoles. RVAC is quite well regarded but their fleet is on the older side, and they're more expensive than LTF. AAPA are up in Wagga so a bit harder to compare directly.

The fleet will be DA40/42.

Hi Ajax,

I spoke to LTF and you can choose which aircraft to learn in.

AAPA also have a school at Ballarat which runs their Diploma course however online information seems a little vague.

Hi Reynos,

I am almost in the same boat and scouting for schools. Can I PM you and maybe we can pursue it together. We might end up negotiating a better deal on training plus can support each other along the way.
Please let me know.

Thank you,
Kind regards.
Prashant

Hi Magnum,

Apologies for the late reply.
Thank you so much for such detailed reply. It is really helpful.
I have booked an introductory flight from Sydney Flying Academy to get a feel of the things. Will surely check out Central Coast Aero Club. I am in western Sydney so need to factor in the travel time.

I don't want to set myself up for failure
 

Hi all,
I'm currently a Yr 12 HSC student in North Sydney wishing to have a career in aviation. I don't plan on going down the uni route, instead of going through an integrated course like that offered at Basair (YSBK) and others and eventually finishing with a commercial multi. From what I've read, however, the VET FEE programs can have some pitfalls alongside the general shambles of the industry in Australia at the moment from the impossibility of having any prospect of a job as a freshly popped wet CPL, I don't want to dive headfirst into the school and be subject to crippling debt.

I do have an advantage however in that I have dual citizenship (AU and US) and have family over there. I've also seen a few random threads mentioning US regionals wanting overseas pilots to join on the E-3 program and FAA license conversion. While that seems promising, I'm aware of the state of the wages and the onslaught of working in US regionals.

On the whole, I just want to know if it is worthwhile to wait for a period while the situation recovers here, and generate savings to contribute towards the commercial multi rating and eventually start some form of work in Oz, and do I have more realistic career prospects and opportunities in the US?

I'm well aware of the brutal and competitive nature of the aviation industry and its current shambles. I also understand the risks associated with a commitment to a future in it, and that is not a short process, and I can't expect any opportunities straight away. I do have other plans if it ends up not working out beforehand. However, I feel that an opportunity is still present in my ability to work in the US and the fact I will still be a reasonable age within a few years while the industry recovers somewhat to find occupation.

Any perspectives are appreciated

Thanks :ok:

You're young, so thats good for starters, If you can as you say, go to the US and enjoy all things Aviation. America is pro-aviation, OZ not so much.
Big tip=Always have another income source if possible. Dont forget that.

Thanks, really appreciate the input :ok:

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Until you have a posting history you don't have access to private messaging and adding urls.

Much more short term responses need your email address to be offered.

Tried to PM back - you'll need to clear some inbox space.

Hi all,

Planning to learn PPL for leisure purposes in Sydney. Want to know how practical it is to fly for weekend trips to, for example, to visit the Dubbo zoo for 2 or 3 days.

The wife thinks I am just gonna waste money on learning it then never gonna ever use it again. I too have this concern as my original goal is to take the family or friends on cross country flights. But after the trial flight, I realised that flying small planes cross-country would not be any enjoyment for passengers unless it's a nicer/more expensive plane with aircon and more cabin spaces etc. Obviously, it is still doable to hire a better plane and plan for stops but don't see this happening a lot, likely tops once in 2, 3 years.

So a more practical use of the PPL would be to replace driving trips that are a bit long, like over 4/5 hours, such as going to the Dubbo zoo or the Snowy mountains. Then I started to actually think it through, and realised it is probably not that practical too:

1. Our place in Sydney to Bankstown airport is about 40 minutes drive with no traffic at all
2. We need to hire an aircraft. Did some searches, looks like a Cessna 152 costs around 350 per hour (wet), and a nicer 172 would be around 500 per hour. From other threads, it doesn't seem that easier to find airplanes to hire unless joining clubs/memberships etc but those add other overheads. I guess the market is not mature enough like renting cars.
3. We need to find a place to park our car at Bankstown airport. I guess it would cost money for secure parking since it's gonna be 3, 4 days.
4. The flight to Dubbo obviously is not gonna be a straight line, I am a newbie and just used some online tools, more realistically it's gonna be a 2 hours plus flight.
5. When we get to Dubbo, we need to rent a car to travel around. And maybe pay for the airplane parking? And pay for the plane while we are at Dubbo? I am not sure about this part.

So the rough total cost of flying there and back would be 1500+ for a simple plane and 2500+ for a nicer plane. I checked out the Qantas link flight tickets, during non-peak time, it's just 600 returns for 3 people.

Obviously, it's a private flying flight so it is meant to cost more but I just find it a hard sell to the wife... Am I correct about the above assumptions? Could anyone share some personal experiences, please?

You already know the answer I think.

Private flying is never going to save you money. If your hourly earnings at work were triple the club hire rate it would probably still work out cheaper to travel by car or RPT.

My advice is if you want to learn to fly you need to tell your wife you want to do it and argue about that. Don't try to contrive scenarios where it sounds more efficient than alternatives to sell it to her (or yourself)if because 99.9% of the time it isn't, unless you live on a cattle station.

I'm sure that you know that private flying is not about saving money. But what it does is give you experience you can't get elsewhere.

We only get one life. Some people like to buy art. Some people like to buy holidays to Bali. Some people like to buy wine. Some people buy NEW cars and don't think twice about the thousands in depreciation the minute the drive off the lot.

Some people like to fly planes.

When I sold my first property 7 years ago, I wished to earmark some of the profits to learn to fly..

My (now ex) wife demanded that I not waste 'our' money on something so frivolous (I was a sole income earner).

I deeply regret not following my dreams at that time. Instead all the profits were wasted anyway and wound up with nothing for us to show for it.

I am grateful that my current partner is supportive and practically demanded that go and follow my dreams.

I can't speak for your personal circumstances, but I've spent as much money each year for the last 6 years on one of my children's high school education as I could have spent getting an RPL with a passenger and Nav certificate..

My eldest is now 18, so I can justify it to myself that it is far past time to do something for myself that I've wanted to do since I was a young child spotting 727's flying overhead.

I have a feeling the Bankstown is an expensive place to fly from, as there doesn't seem to be to as many options as say a quick look at Morrabbin in Victoria ($500 an hour would get you a very spacious and very fast Piper Chieftain twin for you and 9 mates).

But, a 5 second check on internet shows at least one 172 at bankstown from $230/hr wet.

Perhaps look at other options at Warnervale or Woolongong (depending on which side of Sydney you are on).

Alternatively, you could purchase yourself (or you might find a few new friends when training and start a syndicate) something like a jabiru etc which is even cheaper per hour (does anyone have rates for Sling / etc near Sydney??) and not that much more than a 'nice' car to purchase (upfront costs only - I have zero experience with running costs - maybe pop down to your 'local' Wedderburn airstrip and ask some locals) and will hold it's value better.

One thing I will note, you mentioned $600 return on Qantas, but that doesn't include the parking, hire car / etc. It's just the airfare.

Which, I just ran a check and for 3 return flights to Dubbo on July 15 2022 (as at right now), you're looking at cheapest $834 vs $920 for 4 hours return in the aforementioned C172.

And you avoid needing to be at airport 1 hour before

You can dictate your own schedule.

Don't need to wait with check-in, security.

And you can take a 4th for "free" (or find a 6 seater, split the costs and take a 5th and 6th).

Best of luck with working out what you want to do.

If you're near Moorabbin, don't discount Tristar - their instructors are fantastic and they have a huge fleet (mostly Cessnas) to choose from, even if a bit more old-school than Learn to Die. Rumour has it that MFS is in dire straits and being taken over by MAS.

If you want to stay out of the politics and away from the multitude of CAE/Oxford Cessnas filling up the pattern at Moorabbin, head out to Lilydale Flying School in the Yarra Valley. The LFS fleet comprises everything from cheap(ish) Foxbats and Jabirus through the usual Piper offering and all the way up in $$$ and they offer both RAAus and CASA licenses under friendly instruction. Have fun choosing!

Sent you a PM