Thanks everyone. Really appreciate the info. Spoken with a few friends, one who has built an RV already.

# RPC vs RPL can be done to save a little money, but maybe not as much as I've been thinking. So will go with RPL as no issues with medical. Can do training in a smaller aircraft as well to save money.
# Do flight training 'quickly', i.e. don't leave huge gaps otherwise it will take longer.
# Finding a good instructor is important. However sometimes another instructor in the same school can teach you something you are stuck on
# Do a few TIF at the airports you can easily get to, ask lots of questions,
# Reasonably double min 25 hours if you want to pass comfortably.

Will start down the research path with aim to do RLP over Spring/Summer.... hopefully!

RV stuff, well that's another discussion, but hopefully it happens.

Seeking advice for becoming commercial pilot after Yr 12
 

Hi all,

I am at the stage in my life where I need to make the decision for applying to universities as I am nearing completion of year 12.

However, I have had the passion for flying commercially for many years and with uncertainty in the industry of getting jobs from being a fresh CPL student, I am really stuck with what to choose. I am currently looking to do the Swinburne Bachelor of Aviation course, or the Bachelor of Information Technology and later look to fly in my free time and build enough hours (as a flight instructor if I did flight school) to apply to airlines or other charter companies. I also currently hold no pilot license.

I have also been researching the Qantas Pilot Academy program to see if this is another potential option to get my foot into the aviation industry as a pilot.

I would really appreciate advice on the best way to approach this.

First off, welcome to the forum! The Swinburne course or QPA are both good options and a few other Unis around Australia also offer aviation degrees (including B.Bus Av), so if you're willing to move it would be worth considering them.

With pilots in high demand both now and projected to remain so into the future, the world is your oyster right now. Good luck and I wish you well on your journey - it's an exciting one!

IF you are going to do one of those types of courses, talk to a qualified financial advisor rather than a flying school salesman before taking on a VET loan.

Hey all
Just a couple of questions about the sorta unknown Moorabbin Flying Services Airline career/cadetship program.
Does anyone have any adivce on the program/information as it is hard to find anything relating too it and find any past students of the course.
Thanks

MFS are strongly linked to AFTIA and are currently trying to re-invent themselves, so I doubt their current program has much in common with previous ones. They held an information session back in June: https://fb.me/e/ZrV2yjgy Did you go?

What exactly are you wanting to know? I haven't had anything to do with MFS for a couple of years now, but someone else here might be able to help. :)

Unfortunately I didnt attend the information session as I found out about the program 2 weeks ago as I drove past thier office and saw a sign advertising the airline cadetship.

Im just a bit sceptical when it comes to the program as it isnt mentioned on their website. Like is this program/opportunity of a job with up companies up north and Southern given to the average Joe who comes in and wants to get his CPL or is it like the actual cadetships where when you sign up for the specific program and only those kids in the program get given the opportunity for those jobs.

Its making me think back to the qantas academy with FTA and how you are placed in a "pool of candidates" for a potential job with qantas as if there arent like 500 graduates still waiting for that call from qantas.

As I mentioned, they've been trying to re-invent themselves so this is probably too new for their website. I know pre-COVID they had a link with Sharp Airlines and quite a few of their graduates got jobs that way, but wouldn't know if that's still the case nowadays.

If you're interested in a cadetship, I'd strongly suggest stopping by and asking them - they're a nice bunch and I'm sure they'd be happy to answer any questions you have. :-)

Grade 3 instructor first job....help
 

Hey, Just finished a g3 instructor rating (it was fun) and all on vet-fee-help. I also studied more training endorsements to really stand out in my resume. I did the DFE and Instrument training endorsements to make my Grade 3 ticket stand out from many dozens getting pumped out of my school. It's been 8 months and nobody is responding (i've tried Aero clubs across the country). My debt sits at around $55,000 NOT including the ppl/cpl/me ir lol. The $55k is just for the instructor qualifications. Will take any feedback/tips/ideas. Cheers, Brock.

p.s. my total vet debt is around $140,000. I cannot even look at my balance when I login. And NO JOB.

Try FTA (Parafield not Wellcamp). I know with certainty they are in need of more instructors. PM me if you need more info.

That is an eye watering amount of money. It does worry me how many people are clocking up these massive debts with indexation at 7.1%, That's $9940 a year added if you don't pay any off this year. On a typical instructor's starting salary you would pay off maybe $1400 a year, the rest compounds.
A good way to stand out on a resume s to have more PIC time and diverse exerience than the other applicants.

I learnt this the hard way. Finished CPL then decided to get more shiny new tickets on HELP loan in the hopes I'd "walk into" a job as a result. On $120k debt right now. The flying jobs I've had so far have come across as "nice mate, are you available to fly for us? you will need a xx rating/endorsement/time on xx type, get it done ASAP". Those offers came about in the first place as a result of getting about, hanging around airports, talking to pilot mates etc - not sitting at a flight school on another course!!

Curious how much IF time you had laminar before adding it to your new shiny Grade 3. In my honest opinion if you had only just got an IR then I would demand my money back from the school that sold you something most flying school HOO would say is worthless. This is my opinion only but getting instructors with little experience in instructing and IF flying in the real world is dangerous and will probably not give the students the best value for money. My opinion only is that it doesn’t add value to your Grade 3 and make you more employable. DFE is good (used to come automatically with a Grade 3). Unfortunately as has been stated in other threads, the majority of schools hire instructors they have trained. Until you get a Grade 2 it’s a hard slog getting an instructing gig.

Flying schools exist for one reason, to sell flying courses. The bigger they are and the more qualifications they can sell you the richer they get and the VET system has made this very easy for them, because if the students were using their own instead of taxpayers money they might do more market research and look outside into the real world.. Of course they will tell you that you need to spend more and more money! For an analogy, If you ask a shop that sells very expensive things, say JB HiFi, for advice on what to buy then of course they will sell you the most expensive items, they don't care whether you need them, if you know how to use them or what you do with them once you have left the shop because they are already waiting to sell to the next person who walks in.

It's too late now but if you had spent that money on getting command time you would be miles ahead of the others. But of course you have to use your own hard-earned for that!

If I was employing Grade threes (I don't bother any more because they get snapped up by the big shiny schools as soon as they get Grade 2, so all the mentoring is a waste of time) I would be looking for the following:

How much relevant command time do they have ie Day VFR single engine?
Have they built their hours getting good and varied experience around the country or have they just drilled holes in the sky within 150nm of home, never pushing any boundaries?
Are they someone who would fit into the team and be great to work with?
Outstanding achievements in other areas, leadership and decision making roles?
Do they have work experience in teaching, customer service, retail or other face to face roles with clients?
Do they have the courtesy to research the school enough to contact the HOO by name to request an appointment or do they dress up in full pilot costume and drop off a resume addressed to "Dear Sir" expect the HOO to drop everything and see them? (Hint: this is how to ensure your resume goes straight into the bin)

All the IR, Multi etc are "Chocolate Teapots" for a Grade 3 and expensive to keep current.

First job in the outback
 

Hi all,

I've just met a fresh CPL and MEIR who has about 250 hours with all there single engine training done on Cessna 172s. They asked me for some advice about going to the outback in search of a first job. Instructing was my first job but thought I'd post here to get feedback from pilots who have done it so I can pass it onto this new pilot. Should they make the move up to Darwin or go for an instructors rating as its more of safer option. I have been hearing hundreds of fresh CPLs are waiting in the outback for a job.

TIA

Firstly, I am incredibly alarmed as Clare Prop alluded to above with regards to financials being mentioned.

In reference to the quoted post, all time done in a 172 is the first short coming on the competitive CV front. The back half of hour building I cannot stress enough the importance to blow some hours on a 6 cylinder. Even just a dozen hours. If one is financially sound, then sure, blow the last 50 hours on one, not many others would take this initiative.

I would encourage your friend to get a dozen hours in a 182, or even better a 206/210. A retractable endo is generally another item they want up there.

If they can get an Instructing job at the place they learnt, after completing the course, well I think that’s likely a good route. However I am concerned with the $55k figure quoted above to get such a qualification. If that’s the dollar figure for it, then forget it.

Why can nobody seem to post for themselves anymore?

Everyone under 70 years old has a smart phone and internet so what's the problem?

You’ll find the instructor job would be less safe then many ‘up north jobs’. The process is simple and has been completed successfully by many:

1. Select a town and move there - Broome, Kununurra, Darwin ect. (smaller the town the quicker you’ll get a flying job)

2. Get any job (ideally at a GA company admin ect.) Woolies/Coffee shop are still good.

3. Drop CV to all the GA operators - throw a pair of jeans/boots on and a nice button up shirt (sleeves rolled up). Drop in every 2-3 weeks to remind them you’re still here.

4. Enjoy the town you’re living in while you wait for a spot to open up! People pay a lot of money to go to these towns, enjoy and explore!

Advices: anything will help
 

Hi everyone!
I m a 34 italian and I ve just been moving to Australia. As soon as possible I d like to take the CPL helicopter path, and I d like to collect as many info as possible.
gonna stick few questions:
•The main thing is about moneys; as every person moving to Australia of course I m not rich, and in general it looks really expensive to become a pilot: is there any tip to save a bit? (I noticed here in Australia it takes around 60k $, that is almost a half of the price in Europe, anyway)
• is it possible to drive , for example, an helicopter in europe with an australian driving license?
•does anyone have tips on courses and training?
•since I m ready to move somewhere else, for the right pilot school, where s a good place to find one?
•is it gonna be somehow easy to find a job, having the cplh or…?

thank you really much for the answers, wish everyone a happy new year!
Michelangelo

NVFR Rating
 

I am thinking of doing a NVFR rating as a next step after my PPL, and as a pre-cursor to my PIFR.

Would it be better to do this in a capital city or in the country? Was thinking the latter was better due to more black holes?

Any schools to recommend around VIC? Was thinking of Yarra Valley Flight School, Interair or LTF Moorabin but would be curious to know if I have left any off the list.

Good choice. Did mine last year at YMMB with Tristar, but I guess LTF would be okay also. Being so close to the city lights (real purdy!) and with large well-lit runways and tower control, Moorabbin Airport is a really great/fun training ground for night circuits and the follow-on navs.

Essendon would be unnecessarily expensive I'd think. With so many black holes and rising terrain I'd think Lilydale FS would be a challenging place to start NVFR training, but I know they do it so maybe it isn't that bad. It's certainly a great school for everything else. :ok:

Thanks for that - will also check out Tristar.
Now someone tells me to do PIFR before NVFR as it saves money and there is overlap. All confused now.

No probs.
Depends what your goals are. Due to the need to use instruments at times for flight at night (eg. those dreaded black holes) the main differences between NVFR and a PIFR are the lack of instrument approach training and the IREX.. so, yes, if you're wanting to do a PIFR, don't bother with NVFR - but if you've got an NVFR rating it's good to know you're more than half way to a PIFR already. Once you get an Instrument Rating (PIFR or otherwise) you no longer need to fly VFR at night.

The guys down at Barwon Heads can allegedly do NVFR and IR also (I was originally going to do NVFR there, but it didn't work out, and I instead changed to do IFR at Interair - regarding excess costs at essendon, I understand there are no night circuits allowed at essendon, so they do their training away from Essendon). When you look at the minimum numbers (your efforts may vary):

NVFR: 10hrs aircraft time.
PIFR: 10hrs sim + 10hrs aircraft (Extra is required if you get a night rating at same time, but I don't know the specifics)
IFR: 20hrs sim + 20hrs aircraft (plus a few hours night circuits)

From where I was sitting, choosing to do the IREX and get a SEIR appears the cheapest thing Ive decided to do in a plane in terms of bang for buck. Of course, disadvantage is you need to pass an exam, where nvfr has no exam from my memory.

Best of luck.

After years of sitting in Melbourne weather, I wholeheartedly agree with you there!!

Yeah its all a bit confusing which ways to go.
I would maybe just take a stab at the IR on first go, but the thing is I don't have 50 hours PIC X-country yet - will need to hour build that which will take some time and $
I thought maybe having a NVFR/PIFR will help in that regard towards X-country hour buildling.

I was in your exact position. Decided to do all the training for IFR and then if I dodnt have the required xc in time for the flight test, Id do the PIFR and then in 12 months, upgrade to full SEIFR. I think I was at about 30hrs xc when I started and finished my training with 6hrs left to.go xc. Did a couple of flights over the weekend to finish off my xc and now I'm ready for pre test and floght test as soon as I get a spare week.

Anyone has an opinion on the Redcliffe Aeroclub or Peninsula Aeroclub's IFR training? I've kinda narrowed it done to 2 to do my PIFR...

Jandakot Flight Training
 

Just chasing a little advice in regards to flight schools in Jandakot. I’m an older pilot (late 40’s) who lives and works in Kununurra looking to complete my CPL. I haven’t flown since March last year, so very rusty. I need some time to get back up to speed and complete the CPL flight test. Was hoping to get it done in Darwin with Trent Robinson, but he’s fully booked for a couple of months. Jandakot is the next option. Looking to avoid sausage factories and glass cockpits if possible. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

PM sent!

I’m sure you are aware by now but the Jetstar program has Been merged with the qantas now which I personally feel was a bad move as the Jetstar program was one of the best programs for becoming a pilot. I’m 18 and have started to apply for cadet programs and have done some thorough research on which ones are best. I’ve just applied for the Rex cadet program which I think is the best and fastest way to become a commercial pilot. I would definitely recommend the cadet program route and leave the GA route till last, as it is quite long and expensive. Rex are also doing three intake per year, and if you are knocked back you can apply again in 6 months. They need pilots so there is definitely a lot of opportunity to become one through them. It may sound strange but I would avoid the qantas academy, as it is just as beneficial as doing a university degree, you could end up owing nearly two hundred thousand dollars and not be guaranteed a job. So overall if you’re looking to become a pilot quickly once you’re 18, do the Rex program or even try out the airforce if you’d like. The Rex program values loyalty, commitment, and passion, there is a twenty five thousand dollar fee upon your acceptance of the course, and the rest of the money will be paid via a bond, so a small amount of your wage will pay it off as you have a guaranteed job in completion of the course. The course is also approx 9-10 months, so although it would be quite intensive, I imagine the reward would be more than worth it.

The repayment schedule is crippling at Rex. I would put a lot of thought into the terms and conditions before jumping.

That poster is probably someone from Rex recruiting looking at their applicant numbers.

UK Private Pilot - conversion to Australian CASA PPL and then CPL
 

Hello! I am a UK private pilot and Australian citizen who wants to move to Oz in order to get my CPL. I have sent off all the necessary forms to convert my UK PPL and searching for flying schools. I would preferably like an integrated course somewhere in the southwest near Melbourne. I am in the early stages of my searching and want to be fully informed. I have a bunch of questions. I want to become a bush pilot

Is it true I get to keep my UK rating as well as gaining an Oz one?

Do my hours flown in GB registered aircraft count towards my CPL once I have converted my PPL to Australian?

Do any of you have advice to someone in my position, with regards to good schools/pricing/options for achieving my CPL?

What hidden pitfalls could I expect whilst undertaking this plan?

What are the prospects of being able to fly internationally and work in different countries having gained a CASA CPL (such as the states). Does it just involve a lot of paperwork and faffing?

I don't expect all my questions to be answered in one go and would appreciate any feedback or tips!!

Cheers

You will need extraordinary navigation skills to find Melbourne in the southwest! :E

No point getting an Australian CPL unless you have citizenship or a visa that allows you to work here. My advice would be to come over on a tourist visa, convert your PPL, build up a chunk of command hours here then go back and do the exams and Modular CPL back there.otherwise you will spend a fortune getting CPL here and another fortune converting it.
Your hours will all count if you go it that way, but if u you do an integrated course you have to start from scratch. Most f lying schools have little experience dealing with this but I went through the process myself snd have both UK and Aus CPL And instructor ratings

Starting from no time to airlines - Australia
 

At the end of this year I'm looking to go all in on flying. The very end goal for me is to fly a widebody while still living in Australia.

I've done so much research on all aspects of training and employment and I'm still trying to determine what the best path would be for me. The conclusion I've come to is that I should go and join the Qantas Academy. The QGPA seems to be the best bet in getting all qualifications done including ATPL theory in one year. If I don't get in to that I think I'll enter the Bachelor of Aviation at Griffith and then do the Graduate Diploma of flight management to get a CPL and ME CIR.

But from there I have no clue on what do to. How do I find a low time job. The Qantas Website says that QGPA graduates have access to Qantas' "General Aviation" partners, but I'm not sure that's all it's cracked up to be. Do I go up north and drop a CV into every Chief Pilot up there or do I apply online for anything that becomes available? I live in QLD but I'd be willing to go to Perth If I have to.

How much time do I realistically need to apply for Jetstar, VA or Qantas?

Any constructive feedback on my plan and tips on finding low time work would be immensely appreciated. (thanks for giving this a read)

Good on you for getting into it. There are a few “cadetships” available, some more real than others. The Rex pilots I fly with liked the job and said the Cadetship was decent although I know little of it. The QF one gives no guarantees as you are aware.

I haven’t given the Rex one much thought. I’ll look into that one. QF gives me no guaranteed but from what I’ve gathered all I would need after it is hours and ME time.

You're correct that the Qantas Group Pilot Academy does not guarantee you a job, but from what I've been hearing, they do offer you the chance at an interview with Qantaslink and Jetstar. But only a lucky few then get the nod, like 10 to 15%. But no, you don't need extra multi-engine hours if you get in to Jetstar as a cadet. Cadets at Jetstar are on a different training pathway from direct entry FO candidates and join Jetstar with their CPL and MEIR with 200 hours TT. Once in, they do extra sims and go through a slightly longer line training pathway.