Capewiis reply.
 

You are perfecrltly correct. Lots of people got into I.T. cause its where the money is and ut will always be a secure job ..sme as back home in the U S of A not so anymore you advice Capwell is spot on.
keep safe everyone and best of luck

Get a career in something that you're passionate about (realistically). I wouldn't be heading into aviation. My opinion only.

Only a hang glider pilot. But I remember that first soaring ridge flight, then that first serious thermal to 2000 ft above the English hills and how the world looked, the first cross country flight... and on and on. Each achievement is forever. Each a flight a mixture of faith, and hopeful expectation, increasingly richly awarded. That first flight down Glen Coe from the White Corrie launch, Munro by Munro. What an unfolding adventure and discovery, thermal, wave, wind convergence, .. that time 14,000ft over Segovia in central Spain... now I have no more goals just to keep my oar in when I can.

Lmao. While I agree there are avenues other than aviation, I love the deluded boomers who think you can just get a career which pays so much that you can fly privately.

Voilibre
 

You are not hmjust a hang glider pilot. You are an aviator just like the rest if us
Regards

Its cheaper to buy for the short term than Marry. A wise old boy once told me, “if you want to retire as a rich pilot, don’t get divorced!”

Enjoyed the flying at every stage but 20 years in, I love Longhaul, love the money, love the people and love the job. If I have one in 3 months.

Keep some back. I’m lucky that at younger than 40, I have 2 years slush fund back and no mortgage. Some spend it like it’s never going to end, 2 kids in posh school, massive mortgage, 2 Tesla’s. yep, that’s great until we have something like NCov when the only people they seem to blame is company instead of themselves.

once you have done it a few years, consider going and developing a second career out of a part time major contract using whatever education and skills you got on the way. Flight crew are good project managers/risk managers.

My advice is don’t confuse a passion to fly with a need to earn an income. They’re not the same. Study hard, carve out a good career in IT, accountancy, law, medicine, whatever. Then you’ll be able to afford to own and fly in your own plane. Believe me you’ll have more fun cutting circuits in a C172 when the air is smooth at sunset than programming the autopilot in a B787 and waiting all night for the sunrise.

A trade and/or a degree in something, not bad to have in the back pocket, in general.

part of me wishes that I had a trade right now. Plumbing wouldn’t be bad right now with all the people flushing other than TP!

and as someone else said, be smart with your money. Just because it’s good coin doesn’t mean it’ll always be good coin.

get a good education. Work hard in a few different jobs when young, get some life skills and a sense of direction YOU want.


ive got many years left in my career in flying. Would I go do it all again?
you bet I would.

will this all turn around one day?
i believe so. Not very soon, but it will. And it’ll take a while to see the industry like it was over the past few years.

Indeed. Spoke with an airline CPT mate of mine today who last week commanded an RPT jet.....he's now mixing concrete.

Based on 30--odd years in Aviation watching the Pilots strike of 89, recession we had to have in 91-94, the tech crunch in 2000, Sept 11 in 2001, the GFC in 2008, and now this....

This, too, shall pass.

Each of these events in turn has brought stronger demand for pilots.
Work hard. Play sport. Never say a bad word about another person. Learn how to drink with blokes without getting drunk or making a fool of yourself.

If you are pleasant company and a good bloke/good chick, you will go far in this industry which more than most operates on passion for what we do.

Give it a go!
 

First point, don’t worry about all the Covid-19 stuff going on right now. By the time you finish school the market will be recovering anyway.

Few other tips or things to look at:
- try gliding. It’s cheap, still teaches you good stick and rudder skills, plus you can use the hours towards your licence requirements later on. Also keeps you interested while you save money (next point).

- save as much money as you can before commencing flight training. No matter what path you choose, the ultimate goal is to have as little (or no) debt at the end. I still owed about $60K at the end and grew to hate the repayments and the debt hanging around my neck for years. Plus being on a low salary starting out made it hard to do other things like buy a house. Check out this blog for an example of what your career pathway could look like:
https://www.goflyaviation.com.au/lat...airline-pilot/

- finish school and get some reasonable grades. Not having Year 12 could be an issue later on. But more importantly school will teach you how to study and learn. Which you’ll need later on for all the PPL/CPL/ATPL subjects (plus new aircraft, renewals, etc).

- don’t pay for any training in advance!! Ever!! Unless it’s something like a Rex cadet scheme or some other airline program, don’t pay your local flying school in advance for a whole course. I did once, they screwed me around, but because I’d already paid I couldn’t leave without losing the money.

- if it’s really what you want, just do it! There’s plenty of ‘helpful opinions’ on here which will just throw the get a job in IT line at you and call it advice. I still like my job, I still enjoy flying, 18 years after my first solo. But there’s plenty of people I fly with who don’t enjoy their job anymore, but they exist in every industry.

As the aircraft get bigger, the pay packet should grow, but so does the responsibility. The fun factor also decreases proportional to the increase in aircraft size. That’s when some guys get a private aircraft or return to gliding.

Lots of good advice on here. Get a career first and then think about flying. I went to Uni and did a degree in engineering. I applied to join the Air Squadron at Uni, but didn't get in - too many applicants. I had passed all the tests, so was given a chit, that had I done National Service, I would have been sent to the Air Force to learn to fly. Didn't happen. I got a First Class Honours Degree and was employed by Rolls-Royce as an aircraft engine designer on military projects. Guess what? This employment made me exempt from NS. Eventually I took up gliding,as this was the easiest way to learn to fly, and became a cross country pilot and an instructor . Retired when I got bored with it, having done 2200 sorties and 1000+hrs, every hour hands on the stick. I didn't miss flying a bit, and had other hobbies to pursue. Just for fun, after a thirty year gap, I went and had a week flying at our local gliding club. Three trips and I was back solo. Flying is like roller skating - you never forget how to do it. Flying is a great hobby, but I'm certain that for me it would not have been a satisfying career. You only live once, this is not a rehearsal!

thank you. money is not the thing in my mind. ive had the aviation bug since a very young age and love the feeling of being off the ground and taking people to places. just i am worried what to do in the future and i know to study hard but i dont want to graduate from high school not knowing what to do. i am currently doing my RPL in my local flying school. i am looking at doing a university course which is AB initio but has a VET student loan which is very nice. or i would like to try the cadetship because being in an airliner has always been my goal and not GA. im just looking in pathway advice because i know one day i would have to face the reality and i understand the industry is tough. thanks a lot for the advice.

Good, it is a huge head start if money is not the primary focus on your mind right now.

There's no book called wisdom, everyone's different.

You will almost always be rewarded for taking risks and trying new things out. Even if you aim for A and miss, it'll be the things that you learned and that you never suspected in the first place that will be the main takeaway. And looking back, it won't be the things that you tried that you'll regret but the things that you did not. Over time, that will come back to haunt you and it'll bite you hard.

Connecting dots looking ahead is almost always a fallacious exercise. It'll only give you a fake sense of security that will do you no justice in the long run.

My advice: slack when you must but never become too complacent, keep an open mind, accept that you will change and will not be same the bloke you are today in 5, 10 or 15 years, stay smart, strive for curiosity, take risks, think big. When luck eventually hits, and it will, you'll be ready.

This video by Casey Neistat is a perfect example of that mindset:

Thanks a lot for that. I am not taking it very seriously now because I’m trying to enjoy what time I have left being a teenager but the passion of flying will always be with me, and that I hope one day I could end up flying in class A taking passengers to their destinations.

Go enjoy life for a bit first - see what you like to do outside of aviation and do that. If you can make a living from it even better. Fly in your spare time for a few years.

Plenty of pilots out there who haven’t got a single life/work experience outside of aviation and it’s like conversing with a couch.

If you do ever decide to make aviation your only form of employment you’ll have other skills that will be invaluable to employers.

And finally - enjoy what you’re doing at the time and don’t be in a rush to the ‘top’ - if money is all you’re after then fill your boots, but lifestyle is pretty important to me and I’ve been patient and now have the best of both worlds (natural disasters are more than a little spanner in the works but we will get through in time)

Good luck.

Mega, lots of good advice but “everyone pay’s the piper”. No job is perfect. There are drawbacks everywhere. Aviation desire is like those rose tinted glasses. From that perfect place you holidayed and decided to move there only to find it was no longer perfect as work interfered with what was the holiday. Had a applicant many years ago who after a few flights chucked it in stating “I fly for fun not work” (and no, not a floater a very much focused individual given his history).



Also very much I guess (as with all of us) at your age you cannot wait to have a job, do what you want, only to realise when you get there, taxes, rent utilities, groceries, rego, fuel, clothes etc takes away the fun of a pay cheque with which you where going to have a huge time. The point? When you become that Captain on “biggus dickus” airlines you may realise that the purity of flying that bug smasher which requires hands on all the time is real flying. The military is great as you get trained to a high standard quickly, fly some awesome kit, and in general are surrounded by likeminded people (yes likeminded people in the commercial sector but how often do you work with the same people etc). But there is also a lot of guff you have to put up with (like any job) and although you have input in your career path you don’t make the decisions. I see you are In Melbourne. Suggest you check out East Sale, even apply as it cost nothing to put your toe in the waters and you are under no obligations.



Although the story of from C152 to the Space shuttle is very true it is also what life is about for those ambitious people. The next step on the ladder. But with each step comes a higher altitude which also brings more responsibilities and demands which in turn detracts from the purity of the initial desire.



Enough waxing and waning philosophically. Best advice I can give is if you want to do something do it, BUT have a realistic view of what it entails. Don’t just talk to one person, talk to as many as you can.



Best of luck.

.

Airline flying as a career now has a limited shelf life.
Autonomous flight is coming to an airport near you. Not next year or even next decade, but certainly within the working life of today’s 20 year olds.
In my 50 plus year career, radio operators were already gone from western cockpits (though the Russians held on to them in the name of employment for all), then we saw the demise of the flight navigator, the flight engineer, and now development of some very clever drones.
If I was starting out now as a late teenager I doubt I would find IT attractive. Not smart enough! I would qualify in a ‘dirty’ trade or unattractive profession, because that guarantees employment in hard times. People will always need to ****, so will always need a plumber; always have toothaches, so will always need dentists. Or combine dirty with attractive and qualify in divorce or criminal defence law - both always in demand. Pilots could be your main customers for the former, operators for the latter.
Then, if still suffering the aviation bug, become expert on drone operations and finally learn to fly conventional aircraft. I would regard flying as an expensive hobby with some limited career potential.
Niche operations such as RFDS flying will persist for a long time to come. But competition for these jobs will be fierce now that there are so many experienced pilots on the market.

thanks for the laugh.

Not anytime even remotely close. Not within this kid's professional lifetime. We are a long way off from even having a fully autonomous car. Maybe 30 years at least. When you see what happens when Boeing can't get a relatively simple system like MCAS right. - you are drawing a very long bow thinking we are nearing a point trusting operation of transport category aircraft
on complete autonomy.

There's a greater chance you'll see automation giving you a filling before you see it being used to fly aircraft without a human ultimately at the helm.

There is plenty of debate elsewhere on Pprune about the future of autonomous flight. Perhaps I should modify 'autonomous' to 'remotely controlled from the ground' to acknowledge that somewhere in the chain a human will be involved - just not in the front of the machine itself. The failure of MCAS to breathe life into an outdated design, several mass murder-suicides committed by pilots and fairly regular crashes caused by pilot incompetence warrants rapid progress to remove the weakest link from the cockpit. Yeh, yeh, I know all about Sully and Al Haynes and many others who saved many lives by being there and acting with great skill. But it was to some extent yesterday's technology that put them in those situations..

https://www.redbull.com/au-en/thered...assenger-drone
These guys are today's Wright Brothers. Within 15 years of the first flight at Kittyhawk, Sperry had developed an autopilot; within 30, all-metal aircraft were in mass production, jets followed, then autoland, supersonic flight, space travel - all within 60 years. Who woulda thunk it back in 1903?

The OP would do well to research more technical papers, progress in the military etc to form a conclusion about long term pilot career potential than to rely on emotive opinions (including mine). As to be expected in Pprune, Luddites outnumber visionaries and tend to be more strident in their denial.

It will be better if you ask a pilot.

Thanks

My advise is to give it your best shot and persevere. Who knows, maybe very few will pursue an aviation career in future and you'll be in demand.
After dropping out of high school in year 10 in mid 1960s I went on to have a 42 year aviation career, the last 15 in command of wide body jets, no one, including me, thought that would have been possible. Good luck

If you're in year 9 now, I reckon you're at the right time to make a career of it in aviation. Remember these down turns in the industry happens in cycles of 5 to 7 years. I dare say in 7 years time, when you're in your early 20's things will be a lot different with the industry back to as normal as it can be after the dust settles.

Who pays for your flying training because you had better start saving now. It will cost you many thousands of $$$ unless you join the RAAF. Before you even consider being a pilot make sure you have another skill behind you - administrative or trade. Because for sure you may have to fall back on it to make a living if you lose your flying job in circumstances beyond your control. Chances are likely that will happen

He did and got answers from pilots.
If the OP researches through PPruNE and other sites he will find hundreds of similar answers and opinions from pilots all over the world.

In common:

• Today's pilots need an alternative non-aviation dependent skill to see them through likely periods of unemployment as a pilot
• If still at school, it is best to obtain that skill prior to commencing flying
• Best path financially (and for quality training) to become a pilot is the military - if you can make the cut and live with the return of service
• If you can't, next best is a cadetship underwritten by an airline which offers employment at the end of training
• Pay-to-fly is a mug's game, but if you have a tidy inheritance or indulgent parents, go for it and hope that the returns from a flying career justify the investment
• At selection time chances of flying job are directly influenced by supply and demand
• Supply and demand (disadvantaging pilots) changes literally overnight - recovery to favor pilots can take years
• Even in good times pilots are not united enough to obtain better terms and conditions - in bad times it is dog eat dog
• So-called 'legacy' airlines no longer guarantee a job for life
• The golden days when we got to actually make our own calculations, work the throttles and physically fly the aeroplane are all but gone - automation rules and Big Brother (flight data monitoring) has killed any pleasure we once took from 'spirited flying' (as was encouraged by an old instructor handbook I still treasure, irrelevant as it now is)
• If you really must get married, find yourself a 'keeper' (and you are not getting mine!) who will stick with you wherever in the world your career takes you, and through periods of low or no income

Mach E Avelli:
Respectfully, I disagree with your last two points.
One piece of advice that I was given and have taken to heart is: As often as possible, handfly from start up to TOC, and from TOD to shutdown. It will keep your skills sharp, your scan active, and will help you on the day that the autopilot gives up the ghost. The requirement for autopilot for these bits is an early indicator that scan and skills might be declining.
In my opinion, a relationship (doesn't have to be marriage) can be the best thing to keep you sane, solvent and sober. It can also be the most soul destroying thing ever. I do agree its probably cheaper to choose once and wisely, rather than one for every stage of your career.
Although, somebody once joked (?) to me that you are not a real pilot until you've had your first divorce. :-) :-)

There's no disputing that we should hand fly as much as possible to maintain skills. The problem is that some operators actively discourage it, and operations may even prohibit it - e.g. SIDs, STARS, LNAV/VNAV approaches, Low Visibility approaches.
Chuck in a minimum number of autolands on long haul operations to keep certification going, and each pilot could be lucky to get two or three manual landings a month. And woe betide you if you ARE hand flying and exceed 0.25nm off track or 30 degrees bank angle or two knots on a speed limit - you will be in for tea and bickies with the boss, or in the case of some overseas carriers, dismissed without notice.
To their credit the FAA and manufacturers have re-thought the importance of hand flying, but mostly it is still left to simulator training to put the philosophy into practice.
The monitoring 'system' parameters are unforgiving of even quite minor transgressions on line operations, so pilots are reluctant to disconnect the automatics and play at being real (even if twice divorced) pilots.
Plenty of debate elsewhere on all this too. The points raised, as I said, are a common theme.

Mach E,
I'm with you one hundred percent on all the points you have made. I speak from experience of 70 years in the game..

Handflying is not in the long term plan of manufacturers and airlines to deskill the pilot job and fully automate the flight deck. They have a point, undeniably, safety has improved with automation.

Is slavishly following a flight director with A/T on really hand flying? Or merely being a meat powered autopilot?

Being old school, I used to like to hand fly, but I now concede it’s no longer an essential skill. You’d be surprised at how many people these days that can’t fly a decent, accurate visual circuit without the A/T. It used to worry me, but I now get the point of the “brave new world” of autonomous flight.

The (solo) airline pilot of the future, will start, taxi and chat to the tower. Line up, press a button and at TOC will go back to the crew rest area until TOD. The aircraft will land and he will taxi up to the gate and shut down. Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you.

The joy of actually poling around the skies will only be found in gliding, aerobatics and RA. i.e. stuff you have to pay to do.

Too true on all accounts.
its a skill that's becoming redundant and with the way technology is progressing it probably won't be even needed at any stage.

some years ago when I was a coe'y on the 'bus' I wanted to do a full manually controlled landing, A/P off A/T off. Was a clear day low work load via an ILS, turned the 'help off half way down the slope and the Capt imeadiately sat bolt upright looking very tense and pale! Was the funniest thing to see!

Flyng is slowly becoming a ' skill-less trade'

He'd probably seen you fly before! :E

I guess outnabout doesn't fly in RVSM airspace! ;-)

Quote Lucille
". Every day, there are dozens of military UAVs plying the skies of the Middle East doing exactly this. Technology like this soon to be coming to an airliner near you."

And according to an article published in the Washington post a few years ago. The accident rate is very high due to lots of reasons, the main one being lack of SA.

Automation has too many gotchas to get easily accepted by pax (and by the informed public).
Cheers
Seabreeze
( See you the other side of the Covid curtain)

My flying experience sofar
 

Good afternoon all,

I have recently taken up the dream if learning to fly at the age of 35. Yesterday was my third flight lesson learning all about climbing and descending. The first two lessons were relatively good, I was able to control the aircraft well. Yesterday however I was not even remotely close to competent. Without delving into the specifics of actually how poorly I performed I am interested in knowing if this sort of thing is common when you start out? Can you have lessons you completely stuff up? Did you ever fell like you just didn't have what it took?

Oh yes! Many times! But if you're persistent enough, you'll figure out how to overcome these hurdles. I'm only a handful of flights away from sitting my CPL Flight Test, and all I can say is I'm glad I never gave up and kept pushing through despite my moments of learning frustrations.

Pilot Training in Australia
 

I have been looking at becoming a pilot and getting the Bachelor of Aviation and Graduate Diploma in Aviation through RMIT, Swinburne, Griffith, UNISA etc. I'm not sure whether getting the degree is worth it, do airlines etc. care about the degree or should I just go to a flight school?
There are also cadet programs from REX, Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar that I could apply for at 18 (I turn 17 in July) I finish school this year so would have to have a "gap year" So I would need to wait to apply.
Also what are the thoughts on Hunter Valley Aviation (BASAIR) or what flight schools are recommended that allow FEE-HELP?

Hello Anthony,

The next few years will be tough for airlines in Australia. I doubt there will be any cadetships on offer for some time. It might be a bit different when you finish Yr 12 but don't let flying schools fool you into believing you will get straight into Qlink or REX when you finish.

I did an economics degree instead of an Aviation based one. Aviation degrees aren't very useful outside of the aviation industry. Business, Engineering or Science is much more marketable as a skill.

Take a discovery flight just to make sure you like flying.

Cheers

What would be the actual chance of getting in the Qantas Future Pilot Program? Is it just a bit of a gimmick and rare to actually happen?

Hevilift Cadetship
 

https://hevilift.com/job/cadet-pilot...ane-full-time/

Just incase there wasn’t already enough of a shortage of work!

NEWBIE TO FLIGHT TRAINING, NEED HELP
Hello everyone, i am a current year 12 student hoping to start my flight training next year 2021, i have done a fair amount of research but i still have a lot of questions. I am located in NSW but don't mind going anywhere to train.

Currently i have a few options:
1) Qantas group pilot academy
2) UNSW
3) Griffith university
4) Flight training Adelaide

WHICH OPTION WOULD BE THE BEST FOR ME? My ultimate goal is to become a large airline pilot such as Qantas or Jetstar, i however am well aware this process will take a long time.

QUESTIONS:
1) Successful selection into the Qantas program is difficulty, any tips on getting selected? (high school results, flying hours, millitary experience)
2) Universities are seen as a bad option as they take too long, should i listen to this advice or pursuit university studies at Griffith or UNSW over a private flight school?
3) IS THERE REALLY A PILOT SHORTAGE?
4) Upon graduating at Griffith, do you obtain: PPL, CPL, ME CIR, ATPL?
5) Universities have the Qantas Future Pilot program, approximately how many student get selected to become Qantas pilots?

It would be really appreciated if these questions could be answered.