NLK was a refuelling stop on their way to MEL.

Anthill

“I hear the boot of Lucifer, I see his filthy face! And it is my face, and yours.”

Funny!!!! well thought out from an insult point of view I think! Touche!
Never was partial to servant girls though!!!:E
You really must stop making these references though. This crowd possibly wouldn't get it!

"She's a witch burn her" would probably be more accurate!!!!!

GADRVR

How do you know for sure I am not with the ATSB?

Since when has the ATSB been determining the future careers of pilots...:ugh:

Get over it mate..... They sealed their fate long before they went for a swim and longer before this thread started. FACT

So I hope you have a safe evening as you clearly would not like the reality of the big wide world should you suffer an incident of a similar magnitude.

Bottom line is these folk have a screwed career path, unlike Skiles and Sully who the press imediately compared them to.

No comparing in any way apart from salt water and a wet aircraft!

Sorry Chainsaw, but you missed my point about the "guard police" pretty comprehensively. My point was merely to illustrate that it is a pretty common occurrence for us to make a transmission on the wrong frequency. I am well familiar with the amount of traffic on the VHF frequencies in that part part of the Pacific and it only strengthens my point in that a pilot transmitting on the wrong frequency will have less chance of a friendly chappy popping up 8 milli-seconds after the transmission is made alerting you to the fact that you are indeed not transmitting on the frequency you intended.

And as far as dark and stormy is concerned, it most certainly was dark as there was a new moon on the night in question. There was also rain showers on and off, but ohh-right. It wasn't windy enough to call it a storm, I give you that. I still reckon I have used less poetic license in all this compared to some other posters on this forum.:rolleyes:

I get the distinct feeling GADRIVR has a vested interest in the Rex group somehow... Or knows one of the drivers.

As far as the accident is concerned, thank god (or who-ever you pray to) they all got out ok, as it would appear on face value that the pilots didn't have much to do with it. And let's lay off the Cleo thing. There is a very small part of all of us that would if we could...

The Crucible? Nah never heard of it. I is just a under-edjamicated pile-it. Millers metaphor for McCarthyism/Communist witch-hunt in 1950's Hollywood if I remember correctly...

j3

Has anyone seen a media release from the ATSB in relation to this accident?

CASA Media Release - Monday 23 November 2009

Special safety audit after Norfolk ditching

A special audit of two air operators is being carried out by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority following the ocean ditching of a Westwind jet near Norfolk Island last week.

CASA is auditing elements of the operator of the aircraft, Pel-Air Aviation, as well as Regional Express Pty Ltd. Pel-Air is a member of the Regional Express group.

The special audit will look at a range of areas that may relate to the ditching of VH-NGA on Wednesday 18 November 2009.

CASA’s special audit is being carried out in addition to an investigation of the accident by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. The CASA audit will not pre-empt the findings of this investigation.

Areas to be examined include fuel policies and practice, flight planning, in-flight operations during changing weather conditions, the check and training of pilots, safety management systems and the inter-relationships between Pel-Air and Regional Express.

CASA has already written to the companies requiring a range of relevant documentation to be supplied.

A request has also been made to interview the pilots of the aircraft that ditched.

Media contact:
Peter Gibson
mobile: 0419 296 446
Ref: MR9009

Interview with Glen Robertson Norfolk Island's airport manager.

Miracle landing on Norfolk Island - Radio National Breakfast - 20 November 2009

Ditched 2 kilometers west and weather cleared 20 minutes after ditching.

No, I don't think so, but it would depend on the operator's SOPs, whether VHF#2 had been used to monitor 121.5 during cruise, and whether it remained on that frequency during the descent and approaches.

Yes! That is not a plausible explanation. :}

But, why don't we leave this for the ATSB to work out boeingbender?

Does anyone know what the RFDS's report card looks like in regards to incidents/accidents/fatalities ???

There is no need for anyone to be concerned about Captain James' future. He has been turned into a hero by the media, sans any relevant facts, and when the truth finally comes out the media will NOT say "We were morons rushing to judgement." the media will ignore the fact that they were wrong. The media NEVER admit that they were wrong(Example "Sadam Hussein, 911, Anthrax, WMD terrorism" parroted over and over again, all lies.)

Captain James has been anointed a hero by the media and a hero he will remain. he is destined for great fortune(well multi multi millions anyway; great fortune by our, the great unwashed's standards).

I predict that he will be starring in the fictional movie that will be made and from there will be able to proceed to a brilliant career as Celebrity Inseminator. At only $10,000 per cover and two covers per week he will be getting a million a year. A nice little addition to the multi millions from the movie.

A similar incident is being discussed on another Pprune Forum. I am somewhat surprised it hasn't been hijacked by the D&G experts!

If the guy has made a mistake, then he will surely suffer.

But some of you people are just too holy to ever do the same. Judged and convicted before the court is even assembled.

I feel sorry for him, regardless of the outcome.

Why would anyone change to 121.5 to make a mayday call out at NI when they were operating NI radio(or unicom or what whatever its called now?) Why not make it on the frequency which you KNEW was being received locally? And further, if there was little(or no) other traffic operating the frequency I would even dispense with the three repetitions of Mayday and call-sign. One is enough. The meaning is clear. One Mayday, declare emergency, declare intentions.

No captain fathom this is NOT an "incident". Clearly you know nothing of aviation, if you did you'd have called it what it is(and that is DEFINED by law; at least it is in NZ and I'd bet in Aus as well).

And yes Capt Fathom lots of us ARE experts. I have as much experience and knowledge as some NZ accident investigators and MUCH higher intellect. I have no doubt whatsoever, judging by what I've read here, that quite a few are as experienced, knowledgeable and able as I.

GADRIVR do you have a potential interest in the money river that will soon be flowing in Captain James' direction? Not implying that you do, just wondering. it would explain a bit.

Brian Abraham # 373
 

The interview was a disgrace. It was a piece of "woman fluff". She basically made statements for the hapless interviewee to confirm.

Ahh, such a level headed aviator:rolleyes:

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20!!

Sitting in front of your keyboard telling the world what YOU would have done carries little significance and even less credibility. The whole point is, we do not yet know what THEY did. Fortunately, they are all alive to tell the story and it will come out in the wash.

Listen, for all I know he could have transmitted on the Grafton CTAF or not at all. I was just trying to highlight the fact that absence of a radiocall on the expected and monitored frequency DOES NOT CONSTITUTE CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS A CFIT INCIDENCE.

ACEMENTHEAD, you should be awarded a PPRUNE award for the most apt username , but perhaps you may wish to shake it up a little and try this:ugh:

Well, you do call yourself Ace!

Perhaps you may need some more fibre in your diet?

Capt Fathom #377
 

Your link does not lead to any PPRuNe discussion. In fact it doesn't lead to any discussion board at all. Is this another example of your care with facts?

Can we cool this thread? It is getting to be 99% noise, 1% fact.

Please spare a thjought for the Mods that must read every post...... :{ A number of irrelevent or unacceptable posts have already been deleted.

If we can't stick to professional debate and known facts, we may be forced to close the thread until further facts are published in the public domain!

:mad:

boeingbender #384
 

My sig is a deliberate bait to elicit ad hominems and thus show the paucity of thinking power of the responder. Thank for playing.

tail wheel #387
 

I don't post here much(although I have posted more than shows in my record). I am interested in facts and truth(you know the old "the truth shall set you free" thing. Ah freedom aerobattng* a DH82 out of a grass field on clear winter day, oh for the olden days.) I became interested in this topic because of the ENORMOUS hero creation by the media. I consider it utterly disgraceful and this appears to be the only place to try to introduce some balance.

Has PPRuNe morphed into PPFactNe?


* Anyone know if aerobatting should have one t or two?

No mention of donning life jackets - is there more on the next tab ? Surely jackets should be listed under 'preparation' ?

If they did follow that checklist then the battery master switch would be off at splashdown, ie no landing lights to see the water and no cockpit lights ?:ouch:

The amount of fuel they had on initial arrival at the island is revealed by the number of approaches they did, ie how long does an approach take ? 10-15 mins ? 3 approaches means they had approx 45mins fuel. Nearest divert at least an hour away ? They had no options once they descended.

Many factors not being considering in this 'discussion' - I'll throw in just a couple - were the aircraft and navigations aids fully serviceable, how tired were the crew / how long had they been on duty, were all the airfield lights working ?

I thought salt water was good for infected wounds :E

J3pipercub.......no vested interest as such. I just can't abide witch hunts!
By the way......in relation to Anthills post, I'm feeling more like Abigal the servant girl. First they want to f**k then they want to burn me!!!! I don't win either way.
Personally I think the only significant thing that Miller ever achieved was playing hide the sausage with Marilyn baby!

Could I suggest to boeingbender and GADRIVR with their hypotheses about wrong frequency selections and Guard police that they might do well to apply Occam's Razor? Occam's Razor

Re Brian Abraham's Post #352
 

It would be interesting to compare the number of incidents arising from incorrect forecasting with those occuring prior to 1990 when there was an FSU located at NLK staffed with BoM qualified weather observers.

In those days, the FSU would have been responsibile for maintaining an "operational information watch" on each inbound aircraft and, as a result, had a responsibility to immediately notify any aircraft within 1 hour's flying time of any deterioration in weather below speci/altn criteria on both the destination and nominated alternate aerodromes. This early notification afforded pilots sufficient lead time to divert safely to any planned alternate or to return to the departure aerodrome prior to PNR if required.

However, with the removal of this FSU initiated service sometime around 1992, the onus now rests squarely with the PIC to take the initiative to update themselves on the latest conditions at both the destination and alternate aerodromes (preferably before reaching their PNR or latest point of safe diversion). ATC now only provides a directed service to aircraft for hazardous weather events (e.g. Sigmets); the availability of all other weather is only available from ATC on pilot request.

Since the change in 1992, I am constantly amazed at how many IFR pilots don't bother to update themselves on the terminal conditions at their destination and alternate aerodromes once becoming airborne, particularly when it is known that the destination weather is forecast or reported marginal.

I don't know whether the Unicom operator at NLK is a met approved observer or not, but one safety initiative that may need to be considered by CASA for island destinations (e.g. NLK, Cocos, Christmas etc) is to ensure that a Unicom/CAGRS operator is always in attendance for aircraft arrivals at island destinations, holds approved BoM observer qualifications and is supported by the re-introduction of operational information watch responsibilities under a LOA with the aircraft operator.

Trust me. Official reports are like statistics. You can make them appear to give whatever outcome the originator desires.

F'instance: Northwest Airlines Flight 188 suffered a "loss of situational awareness" on Oct. 21. Like these guys were not asleep.:= Laptops???? :suspect:

These forums are loaded with a wealth of information. All the reader has to do is filter the "wannabees" and "armchair critics" from the "been there and done that" poster. If you are in the latter group, then this is not hard. :ok:

A modest suggestion for the improvement of this website
 

dogcharlietree: very sensible post

tailwheel: mods have a difficult job.

My suggestion: in some online versions of popular newspapers (eg UK Daily Mail) readers of comments (posted by other readers) on articles on the website can vote approve/disapprove on these posts.

Each poster ID only gets one such vote on each post by other readers.

See here for an example:

Shear lunacy: No beating about the bush for gardener who brought in a CRANE to mow his lawn | Mail Online


In the Mail's system, readers can select to read only those previous posts which have the best ratings.

Suitably tweaked for Pprune, this would mean that we could choose to read only the posts which had been judged by the majority of previous readers of that thread to be worth reading. Equally, we could choose to see all, and skip past those that had a net negative rating.

Huge saving of time and effort for readers of long threads, and those posts attracting high negative scores might help mods focus their efforts.

All the rumours aside, I just want to know if he stalled :}

PLAAAAAAANKY!

Oh and does this mean Dunza is going to get the Pel-Airs medivac contracts in his fleet of brand spanking new Caravans? :p

Ah, for the freedom of the olden days,
The grass field and aerobatics in a DH82 on a clear winter day.....


:hmm:

From Aviation International News today.

Capt. Dominic James and first officer Zoe Cupit had a tough decision to make after three missed approaches during their attempt to land at Norfolk Island in the South Pacific. They were flying a medical transport–a female patient and her husband–from Apia, Western Samoa, to Melbourne, Australia. The pilots planned to land the Pel-Air charter Westwind II at Norfolk (1,473 nm from Apia) to pick up fuel, but upon arrival the cloud base was at 200 feet, according to Pel-Air. After three VOR approach attempts, the pilots elected to ditch the Westwind. It was dark, about 9:30 p.m. on November 18, and there was a five-foot swell. The pilots kept the landing gear retracted but deployed full flaps. “The aircraft was intact after landing, [the] patient and her husband and all crew [two pilots and two others] exited immediately and were in the water for about 90 minutes before being rescued by a fishing boat launched by the local rescue squad,” Pel-Air told AIN. “He made the right decision to carry out a controlled ditching rather than to persist with further attempts to land.” The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the ditching.

Now ditching a DH82a was a real skill and feat to carry out successfully :ok:

Is this a fact or media speculation. There is still nothing on the ATSB web site in relation to this accident.

Tinpis today 01:07
 

Tinpis I take it that you are accusing me of plagiarism. Not guilty. I've never read those or similar words. I spend negligible time reading aviation stuff. No magazines in last 20 years. Last book; Fate is the Hunter ~40 ya.

I entered the string "The grass field and aerobatics in a DH82 on a clear winter day" (with quotes) into Google and came up with ZERO matches. I despise cliché and do my own thinking.

HarveyGee would confirm the veracity of what I say.

Tinpis today 01:07
 

Logbook excerpt from 1960, at photobucket, with winter DH82 aeros.


logbook.jpg picture by acementhead - Photobucket

Yes my 19 year old printing is very messy. My 69 yo is just as bad.

acementhead,
Thread drift, but maybe it needs it.

My log shows a dual check with Peter Selby in DH82 BCO 12 May 1960, and the printing is just as scruffy.

And when I turn the page I get BCO again, on 14th May, trying to master a slow roll in DH82 with Peter Selby. Cannot remember how much altitude was required at the start, but it would have been a lot.

prospector. thanks. Pete Selby. what a great guy. Never cavilled at putting on the flying suit, unlike someone else, and the midair; just magnificent.

Sorry that I'm so intent on defending my integrity.

Acementhead. I'm not sure what sort of integrity you're referring to in regards to what you may be defending so I'll leave that alone.
I do however recognise an amateur "expert"

Leave the postulating in a public forum to the real experts. You know, people who do this day in and day out on a professional basis. Not an angry little Kiwi with a bad case of "tall poppitis". Whats the matter mate, upset that maybe somebody else may be getting kudos for getting a difficult job done?
Must be hard sitting in the nursing home having the old girls and young female nurses ooggling young Capt James after just one one incident when you've spent years tring to elicit the same reaction with tales of "there I was". Fumbling about in a bugsmasher just doesn't cut it does it mate? Must be hard to accept that. Thats OK darling I understand:E