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Merged: Pel-Air Westwind Ditching off NLK
A Pel-Air Westwind on an aeromed flight from Apia-Norfolk has ditched.
Word from the island is fuel exhaustion after 3 approach attempts. All 6 POB rescued alive by local boat and are in the NLK hospital. No other information yet. Ditching at night, yikes. |
:eek: Wow, that is incredible!! :eek:
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Pel-Air ditching
Wow, the weather can sure get bad out there. They are very lucky. Why go to NLK when Noumea is a closer ILS equipped airport??? When I used to run RPT out to NLK we were always wary of the wx, and needed plenty of gas. How will REX manage this stuff up?
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This will indeed be an accident that I shall have a keen interest in. I too have found myself some years ago now in similair situations, out in the Pacific at night in less that ideal wx conditions wishing I was home in bed.
The stress would have been high for the crew, Aero-Med work has it's challenges at times like no other. As long as everyone walks (swims in this case) away then we can all learn from it hopefully.:ok: Wmk2 |
I'm glad all survived unharmed.
From the Rex website: CareFlight/Pel-Air Medical Evacuation Incident - Samoa to MelbourneThursday, 19 November 2009 A CareFlight medical evacuation flight operated by Pel-Air Aviation from Apia (Western Samoa) to Melbourne was scheduled to land at Norfolk Island for a planned fuel stop on Wednesday evening when it encountered deteriorating weather conditions. After several unsuccessful approaches and with diminishing fuel, the pilot-in-command, Captain Dominic James, made the decision to carry out a controlled landing onto the water off the coast of Norfolk Island. The aircraft, a specially-equipped medical retrieval Westwind jet carried out a successful landing on the water and the patient, accompanying spouse and two medical crew as well as the pilots evacuated safely. They were rescued by boat and brought to the local Norfolk Island hospital for observation. The Captain reported that all passengers and crew did not have any apparent injuries. John Sharp, Chairman of Pel-Air Aviation said that he was very proud of the Captain and the First Officer. “They performed an intricate landing on water in darkness resulting in the evacuation of everyone safely and quickly. The training of both the Pel-Air and CareFlight crew came to the fore as everyone kept together and remained calm. Their professionalism stood out on the day and made a substantial difference to the outcome.” “I also want to thank the rescue team and the local authorities for their prompt action and dedication which resulted in a speedy rescue and evacuation to the hospital.” CareFlight Chief Executive Officer, Derek Colenbrander, said the successful outcome was testimony to the skill and training of the pilots, the prompt action of local authorities and the efforts of the medical team in continuing to care for their patient. Arrangements are being made for the patient to be repatriated to Australia. |
NLK is not a place you want to be operating into without alternate fuel, regardless of what the forecast says.You can be visual over the sea but have to climb up into the cloud to make the runway !!
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Pel-Air
So they went to Norfolk WITHOUT fuel for an alternate????? :eek:
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Don't get too worked up .... its only an 'Incident'
I had to go to the Rex site to make sure this wasn't a wind up. Hats off to the crew for making a safe 'landing'. I'm sure there will be many factors in this but the main thing is all are safe and the person who wrote that press release will get a job with the PM s office |
Top effort from the crew to salvage a diabolical situation.
However, I have to ask the question is this an why such an operation is permitted in the first place? I have never operated into Norfolk Island, however anecdotally I believe that it is a difficult destination due WX & its remote location. I find it difficult to believe that to operate into a isolated aerodrome without an alternate is an appropriate for commercial operation, given that other possibilities exist (larger aircraft with greater fuel capacity). Questions need to be asked of the operator & the regulator. Here are the METAR's for the 18th November. |
Well done to the crew for a successful ditching! :ok: Will be interesting to read the ATSB report on this one.
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So will questions be raised with regards PelAir taking over the RFDS contracts in 2011 (can't remember the locations)??
Can't believe REX named their pilot, is that kosher? Well done to him and his crew anyway, hard as it gets yeah? |
Just wondering if the approaches were conducted during the times of the following metars/speci, if so would not the right place to be without alternate fuel:
METAR YSNF 181030Z AUTO 16009KT 3000NDV // OVC002 19/18 Q1013 SPECI YSNF 181053Z AUTO 16009KT 5000NDV // BKN002 BKN009 OVC014 18/18 Q1014 METAR YSNF 181100Z 14008KT 5000 -SHRA BR BKN005 BKN014 18/18 Q1014 SPECI YSNF 181111Z AUTO 15006KT 3200NDV // SCT003 BKN008 OVC014 19/18 Q1014 SPECI YSNF 181128Z AUTO 15008KT 7000NDV // SCT005 BKN012 OVC017 19/18 Q1014 SPECI YSNF 181134Z 15008KT 8000 FEW006 BKN015 19/17 Q1014 RMK BR |
Not sure when the ditching took place, but here's a weather snapshot of a longer time period. (is there ANYTHING the iPhone can't do??) METARs are interesting but can anyone provide the TAFs (and the times they were issued)? That's what'll determine the rights and wrongs of the situation. UTR |
Strike three
According to Welcome to Weather Underground : Weather Underground
Temp range 18-23, Due point 19. Max humidity 100% Temp at or below dew point from 8 pm local. Anyone got a copy of the TAF??? Long range cruise charts, alternate requirements,,,,,,,, ?????,,,,,,, Dom well done on getting everyone out alive. That is the thing to take away from this. |
Wouldn't it be the case that the majority of aircraft that operate into there WOULDN'T have enough fuel for an alternate given the distances involved?
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Wow! Not a decision I would like to have made :eek:
Remember going in their a few years ago where the dew point and reported temps were fast closing. By the time I got there, the cloud base was too low to even think of commencing an approach, but plenty of clear areas over the water, so short of diverting to Noumea, only alternative was to descend over the water to do a vis approach. The approach was below cliff height with a climb to the threshold of the rwy. The FSO recounted of a coastwatch Shrike that almost had to ditch under similar circumstances the day before. I felt for him. Great job to pull off a ditching at night with quick Jet and recover all persons :ok: |
Some more info...
Rescue plane sinks after ditching November 19, 2009 - 12:26PM Six people including a sick woman have been rescued after a medical evacuation plane was forced to ditch in the sea off Norfolk Island. The CareFlight plane was taking a critically ill patient from Samoa to Melbourne and was attempting to make a refuelling stop at Norfolk Island, the Seven Network reports. Bad weather thwarted three attempts at landing, so the pilot peeled away from the island and put the plane down in the sea about two nautical miles offshore. The crew and the patient were all able to get safely off the plane before it sank three minutes later. All six people were forced to tread water, only three of them wearing lifejackets, for about 90 minutes before they were rescued by boat. All were in shock and suffering from hypothermia but no one suffered major injuries. AAP |
Westwind Ditches at Norfolk Island
Good to see crew and pax ok!
Pilot Dominic James ditches medical evacuation jet in ocean off Norfolk Island | The Australian |
Already here mate... :ok:
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Will be very interesting reading when the report comes out.
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........sure will be interesting reading when the report comes out...........in Ch 9's TV BS!!! Already Ch 9 have started to paint a 'hollywood' story from it to milk it for all it's worth:ugh: Cloe Bachelor hero pilot is now the leading headline !! FFS!
Wmk2 |
Could be lots of issues here, especially planning considerations. That said, well done to the Captain for deciding on a gutsy plan and carrying it out successfully. Must have been awful tense after the 3rd missed approach !
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Gee, Mmmm. Sometimes you can only plan for 1 approach. From experience Norfolk and LHI can mean you only get one chance then off to the mainland or other alternate. Fuel critical situations can be very testing. Our remote islands are the only time we have ever needed CP and PNR calcs.
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I take it there is no precision app. aid at Norfolk?
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Tinpis, no there isn't and its up on top of a cliff too, so very condusive to fog and cloud. AKL is the normal alternate carried for a jet.
Once I came in from Tahiti into there and could not descend and preserve my AKL alternate until VFR was confirmed from the FSU. The weather there can turn bad fast when Temp and dew point is close together. Pleased to hear all walked away. |
For those interested, just a few hours earlier, a RAAF 737 carrying the Governor-General had to divert back to Sydney, after not being able to land in Norfolk Island due to the bad weather conditions..
G-G's plane aborts landing, turns back | National Breaking News | News.com.au |
Wonder What Official Report Will Say?
Most poster are correct - NLK can go down to the MNM irrespective of the TTF.
However, to make 3 (alleged) approaches (all unsuccessful) to NLK and (assumedly) burning ALTN fuel resulting in: a. a zero option approach (3rd attempt = must land); b. a ditching, however successful (result of zero option approach); c. a allusion of "hero" status. Facts: unsuccessful approaches (3); controlled aircraft ditching due exhaustion of contingencies/fuel. Forget "stress" and subjective mitigators; to reiterate - min fuel = min options; zero fuel = zero options. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE? |
Doesn't surprise me that the media are using the Cleo Bachelor thing.
Media outlets will try to differeniate themselves from each other and find an exclusive angle on a story. This sometimes just adds to the dumbing down and sensationalising of stories which in Aviation i always hate to see. Now i'll proberly have to field questions from punters about ditching, if i knew him and if i have applied to Cleo. |
I wonder, if we had adopted the FAA requirements some 15 years ago when regulatory reform began, whether this accident would have been prevented.
Requirement to carry an alternate: 1 hour before to 1 hour after ETA- Vis <2sm (3.2km) cig <3000ft The FAA also does not allow charter or RPT aircraft to attempt an instrument approach unless the Wx is reporting above the landing minimums at the time of the intended approach. If we had this rule in operation here, would the decision to divert to Noumea have been made well in advance of the first approach attempt? |
Weapons Hot,
I think we agree on the picture. |
So far REX share price pretty much unaffected from yesterdays close.
Is this the same guy that was a SO with Qantas for a short time? |
It'll be an interesting report, never been there but flown plenty around the Pacific a few years back, standard fuel for no alternate was 2 hrs island reserve.
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and they are throwing in:
performed his version of the remarkable Hudson River ditching of Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger III. |
In reply to MJBow2, from memory it is stated in the CAR's (just escapes me where rite now), that an instrument approach shall not be commenced unless conditions are above landing minima....... it's one of those regs that you can never find it when your looking for it! :hmm:
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I take it there is no precision app. aid at Norfolk? ...too bad no-one has the equipment to do SCAT approaches though... |
Ask them how many life jackets they had on board.
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Weapons_Hot, mate exactly what I was thinking. The report im sure will explain alot but I also have to ask:
1. There may have been panic, but why did only 3 people have life jackets? 2. The flight must have had a PNR and CP so if he got current weather at that time and saw the weather was OVC002 why did he not divert? But on a positive note...my hat off to the pilot for ditching safely at night with it overcast meaning no moonlight. Thank goodness no one was seriously hurt. |
So, let's get this straight - they set up for a controlled ditching, but only three of them had time to get their lifejackets on?
What about the dinghy packs also carried? Don't get me wrong - glad all worked out well; but as for 'well trained, and professional'.... I remember some years ago picking up a Westwind for an overwater flight and for some reason checking the lifejacket situation.....none found! Looks like Pelair have again proven they deserve their 'reputation'. |
John Sharp, Chairman of Pel-Air Aviation..... |
Hats off to the crew for the successful ditching.
However, just because the operation was "legal" does not make it safe, as has been demonstrated in this case. "Island hold" or whatever they call it is not on IMHO. Like playing Russian roulette. "On route alternates" or a decision at the PNR/Cps are another one, I will not entertain. I don't give a damn what the bean counters think but to me "fuel in the tanks is money in the bank." It is not a crime to have an accident but to run out of fuel, whatever the reason, is criminal. I hope someone can come up with a good reason why this "incident" came to be. |
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