Good plan...
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Options
I would rather shoot myself than sit in an office until I retire. |
AA, NAV's in charge comment was supposed to be banter, Got you hook line and sinker though!!
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It is a choice between an office wearing blues (with the Equity/Diversity/Staff Skills/Etc etc ) or an office wearing normal clothes outside the sheltered workplace; and what is more, the office will most likely be in the same City for the duration of your Kids' schooling |
Centaurus,
Not meaning to have a go, but a couple of things you said surprised me. Firstly, I did my training in the mid 80’s. Reading your post it appears that not a lot had changed from when you were around to when I was on course. I too was subject to the “screaming skull” style of instruction. I consider myself fortunate that it was in the Macchi, so he couldn’t hit me as well! Fortunately my FLT CDR recognised this and gave me a change of instructor which did me a world of good. As a student the feeling I got was the majority of QFI’s considered their tour as a necessary evil, even a “punishment posting”. This attitude is very easy for a student to detect, and rather discouraging. Fast forward to today and I can say with some confidence that the majority of QFI’s want to be there and conduct themselves accordingly. There is far more empathy towards today’s students compared to the “good old days". But one thing I have always wondered was the high scrub rate during RAAF training during the lead-up to graduation as a pilot It struck me that the RAAF using tax payer's money, held no instructor accountable for the scrubbing of a trainee pilot for perceived lack of the Right Stuff to be a RAAF pilot. a high proportion continued to fly in GA and eventually made a command in the major airlines. Top brass never questioned The Wing Commander's decision or had a good look at his history of scrub rides. Screaming skull RAAF instructors abounded in those far of years and yet they were never brought to heel by their superiors. - yet when a trainee pilot is scrubbed, there is no questions asked of his instructors because they are not held accountable. I was fortunate to have a series of wonderful instructors during my training - others lucked out by being allotted a bastard instructor. RAAF CFI's and CO's could scrub a trainee on gut feeling - the usual excuse being the unfortunate trainee could not hack it in a wartime scenario. No lawyers in those days to bring you up sharp and explain your actions. |
Here, here... I totally agree Capt Sand Dune. Having sat before the Fltcdr, psych, CFI and CO, and having to explain every single score I gave a guy leading up to his scrub ride, there is no doubt the RAAF has a thorough and accountable system when it comes to scrubbing a student. The most difficult time in my RAAF career was agonising over whether I should give that guy the fail that I knew was going to lead to his suspension. It is not an easy decision and not one that any QFI I know has taken lightly.
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Loiter1 and Capn Sanddune
Agree 100%, unless you've got all your ducks in a row, with all the correct paperwork done and all the remedials you can give done, even a student who (without seeming to be harsh), is a danger to himself and others has got a reasonable chance of having another go at it.
Saying all that, I think I get more nervous waiting for my students to finish tests and pass them than they do! If you're not there to instruct and try to get them through, you shouldn't be doing the job. So how the 'screaming skulls' of yesteryear did it I'll never know:confused: One final point-:mad:ng EDO's |
I do remember one fine fellow gloating "The more of you I scrub, then the greater chance I have of getting a flying job for my next posting." :eek:
We were so relieved when he then left for an airline job... |
PAF,
The QFI's at 2FTS have always had a tough and busy job. VI |
Good contribution VI
Well thought out and you have done immense credit to yourself.:rolleyes: |
wasn't out to do myself any credit... just making a point.
thanks for the compliment however Capt Johns... VI |
Milk and honey?
Anybody who thinks 2FTS is in the land of milk and honey is living in the past.
These days it's a very hard working sausage machine where every cog in the machine is worked to its maximum theoretical potential, with little regard for that which cannot be measured. And now they want many more sausages? :eek: |
Pearce: Land of milk and honey.
Tamworth: Land of cows and bees. ruprecht.:) |
Anybody who thinks 2FTS is in the land of milk and honey is living in the past. These days it's a very hard working sausage machine where every cog in the machine is worked to its maximum theoretical potential, with little regard for that which cannot be measured. And now they want many more sausages? 2FTS is the land of milk and honey compared to BFTS. Twice as many students but with about half the instructors. More sausages? We'll see! |
Bl**dy hell, here we go again:mad:
The Ivory Tower has requested all SQN commanders conduct an informal poll to find what would keep experienced pilots in the RAAF. It seems that every few months or so some senior officer comes up with the same "bright" idea. Alternatively they could just look through their files for the last poll and find the information themselves! In any case these polls/surveys etc come up with the same result, i.e. if you don't promote me and/or post me to one of the plethora ground jobs out there, and keep me flying, I'll stay. It isn't always about the money. |
Left after serving about triple the ROSO of when I joined.
Money? Sure that played a part. Lack of future flying? Nope, didn't have a ground job, flew the whole time and frankly was looking forward to a little break. Had been offered future flying jobs - in fact looked like flying for another decade ish but it played no role at all in our decision. Ridiculous mission creep on extra requirements for deployment and general service "currencies"? Yep, very annoying taking up such a significant amount of time that doing your job to the standard you expect of yourself became impossible. Lack of experience in units acquiring new aircraft? Frightening. To say the least. Moving around? Absolutely a factor. So, like most people, a combination of factors added up to a decision. Everyone will have their own combination and make a decision. Can (or will) the government afford to keep people in? I don't think so. Can they afford not too? I know they will do everything within their power to get away with it as cheap as possible. The DOD got away with some things after the events of 2001 (with respect to pilot retention and recruitment). It looks like that is now going to cost the Defence Force. Big question is, what price will it pay? I fear it may be more than loss of operational capability. |
Seems a waste to just let the expertise and experience walk out the door.
I don't understand why the government won't create and promote an air force reserve program to keep the expertise (relatively) on tap ie "x" amount of days per month / year etc for crews who have left for civilian life. Is it cost? Is it a case of an attitude of 'once you're out - you're out"? |
There is a RAAF reserve. Do you mean a similar system to the US?? If so we are waaaaaay too small for that
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Do teh RAAF reservists go back to flying Hornets, for example?
I meant more in the way that the Swiss deal with their civil/military for example, their soldiers spend 3 weeks p.a national service. Obviously, different scheduling required for pilots - but a similar general (no pun intended:8) idea. |
Way too small control snatch? With a little creativity the RAAF could probably crew the BBJ fleet with reservists and just have a PAF (not you Pass A Frozo) SQN exec. Without too much effort you could possibly extend that expertise also to the Wedgetail and possibly even the KC30B.
With that same creativity (and a bit of sharing between the respective airlines and the RAAF) the only thing the RAAF would probably need to train and check would be RAAF specific skills such as formation flying and type specific issues related to the aircraft role in the RAAF. I find it surreal that a lot of my tax dollars are spent on teaching a youngling the military way of committing aviation only to send them to the BBJ or 737. |
The major issue with your suggestion Keg is deployability and the airline's willingness to let their pilots who are "on loan" to the military do 6 months in a place ending in stan in a war zone. If the airlines would allow it, would the personnel even commit to going?
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Hi Keg,
Plenty of guys in the PAF would stay in flying the B737-BBJ or similar and find it a seriously hard choice to leave if they thought for a second there was any permanency to the posting. Different equation entirely for those spending most of their lives in the sim or the desert on P3s/Hercs. Just a guess, but I reckon if you conducted a poll, morale at 34SQN would run rings around most Squadrons in the RAAF right now. Best leave 34SQN as a carrot for those interested in a PAF career. Despite popular belief, 34SQN isn't the 'departure lounge' for the airlines. Best use the reservists in the Squadrons they departed from... Ali, I know of one fella who had several months leave of absence from QF around 2004 to go to the desert as a RAAF reservist. I believe obtaining the leave wasn't an easy task. He had his own reasons but I can't imagine too many guys being interested. VI |
Fair enough lads.
I recently happened to fly with the former QF CP who over the years had a number of discussions with various CAFs and senior RAAF members about possible structures for RAAF BBJ and other flying and how that integrated with QF demands. Obviously the tight strength of QF drivers compared to what should be our establishment prevented the discussion from progressing too far but I do know of QF drivers who in the past have been able to get enough time off to stay current on the F/A18, upgrade to the Hawk, current on the Herc, etc. Given that we have lots of guys current on the 737 and A330 I still reckon that the deal can be done to suit both sides. |
Surely if Qantas pilots have enough free time to remain current on RAAF aircraft, they could alternatively apply this effort towards... flying for Qantas :}
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With the possible exception of the SO position at QF, ex-RAAF drivers would not be interested in giving up too many days off to fly in the Reserve. With 8-10 days off giving the RAAF a few is of no benifit to the individual or the SQN.
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Last time it was "we'll train our way out of it".
Can't say that this time, coz the training system has been left to rot, requiring a sizeable investment to get it up to speed in order to handle the projected demand. Because it isn't fast jets, Shep doesn't really care. Now it appears to be "the reserves will save us". The RAAF need to be very careful here. Reserves are used to supplement the regular force, not replace them. Relying on reserves leaves potential to get bitten. How about pulling some SQNLDR/WGCDR types recently posted out of FLTCDR/CO positions into ground jobs back to flying jobs to help stand up new units and help out existing units? A bit too "outside the box" for some of our airships to comprehend, methinks! |
'Big wheel keeps on turning.......' - Creedence CW
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and turning , and turning, and turning....(yawn)
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but I do know of QF drivers who in the past have been able to get enough time off to stay current on the F/A18 |
Ho
w about pulling some SQNLDR/WGCDR types recently posted out of FLTCDR/CO positions into ground jobs back to flying jobs to help stand up new units and help out existing units? |
Hi all
First time, long time..... It does raise the question of costing. (i.e. the pay differential between WGCDR and a FLTLT to fill a FLTLT slot) But somewhere out there is a WGCDR job not being filled....or someone on HDA...:) |
Spacebar old son,
you should write in english and use only aviation jargon (not military jargon) if you want other folks to understand you. Also heard that all squadron leader P3 pilots have left or in process of leaving from the P3 units. There are also rumours of a bonus as used in previous years. RM |
Spacebar old son, you should write in english and use only aviation jargon (not military jargon) if you want other folks to understand you. CE= Constrained Establishment. In essence: the number of positions the RAAF has to work with. HDA = Higher Duty Allowance. You don't have the rank but they want you to do the job of the higher rank? No problem. HDA means you're paid at the equivalent rank level of the job description. (some conditions do apply - see instore for details):) |
Also heard that all squadron leader P3 pilots have left or in process of leaving from the P3 units. There are a few maritime SQNLDR pilots in project/staff positions. Well, I know of one....:rolleyes: ruprecht. |
PAF - all I can say on this forum that a bonus for some pilots is likely (if a new government should agree...)
RM |
Apparently not true. The bonus, which had some momentum for a few months, is dead in the water; stopped 'at the highest level'. Read into that what you want. Pilot pay will now be reviewed during the 08 pay review body sitting - if that's not too late. Shep genuinely believes there's no problem......
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Army pay it
Navy do it RAAF has done it for ATC But is is already to late, it would have been cheap and effective to do it a year ago but those that are going have gone/going. The difference between now and in the past is those that are left will have people with 1000hrs on type as the grown ups instead of the 4-5000hrs they have in the past. It must be great to hear for those in ground jobs that higher ranks are taking FLTLT slots in flying jobs, that will help! |
In the past I saw exodus cycles within the RAAF, mid to late 80's, mid to late 90's. Worthless retention schemes were implemented. (Interest free loans)
Right now there are more airline jobs available or becoming available in our region, or commute from Aus positions, than has ever existed in history. Failing an economic bust (on the cards as always) the RAAF will lose every guy that is able to leave and wants to do so. CAF pull your head out of the sand or the period 2010 to 2015 will reflect the safety record of 1989 to 1994. |
Very interesting times indeed...
Anyone like to speculate on what the future holds? I dont think any more money is coming our way. And if they changed their stance on this front wouldn't it be a source of embarrasment for them? |
Margy,
interesting that you suggest a bonus was halted at the highest level. I am aware that in Sept 07 some high level paperwork was being actioned! We shall see... |
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