What happened to the spec aircrew scheme? Is it still around, and if so, is it working at all?

No shortage of funerals in the GA scene, either. A few blokes I used to know weren't shot at but are now just as dead.

"Boring"? Ever spent a couple of days sitting around a c*** camp in the middle of summer?

Blogsey you're a dreamer if you think a S/O at CX is a better deal financially than a FLTLT in the RAAF. S/O at CX is what you have to go through before you get a decent pay packet

Went out of vogue a few years ago. Be interesting to see if thet resurrect it. Quite a good idea I thought.

Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it...
 

Good post Capt SD.
At the end of the day what will change will be...nothing. This will sadly play out exactly as it has during every other previous pilot exodus. And Canberra knows it. The head shed will realise they have an actual or impending manning problem. The stimulus and ramifications of said exodus will be exactly, exactly the same as the one before it, and the one before that. DP(O) will start doing field research in the form of surveys :yuk:, group emails and road shows to try and find out [slap forehead here] why so many are upping stumps and taking their bat, ball and family to play elsewhere. They will ask questions like they have no idea why people would want to leave. They are leaving for the same reasons they always have, you bunch of mental titans! Posting turbulence, ground jobs, reduced flying with promotion, the exponential growth in **** peripheral distractions (not entirely the RAAF's fault, by the way...they are a Gummint organisation and have to give certain "training" etc).
It aint rocket surgery - a boggie has a ten year ROSO. He will typically start out single, hungry to work, fly and party hard. By the end of his ROSO he will have accumulated the trappings of growing up...a wife, and a couple of young kids who are in, or starting school. Said former boggie will still love flying military aircraft, but will now think a couple of things:
(a) where did my hair go?
(b) where did this 10 extra kilos come from?
(c) this MOVING AROUND EVERY 2/3 years, sometimes at short notice and not where I want to go IS ****TING ME AND MY FAMILY OFF.
The lifestyle the RAAF presents him is no longer compatible with his family life or goals. The other thing often missed is that over time society has changed, and THE WIFE MAY HAVE HER OWN CAREER. Getting bounced from East Coast to West Coast to Canberra back to East Coast in a couple of years is hell on kids in school and wive's career or domestic stability. What was acceptable to former generations isn't so now. To huff and puff and dispute this fact is irrelevant - it is fact, and people will vote with their feet.
This time around if rumours are to be believed it is a "perfect storm" for an airline exodus. A perusal of these boards suggests QF are looking for 500 (500!) SOs in the next few years, with VB and J* between them looking for probably more. Add Tiger, and Emirates and Cathay who all have massive expansion plans for those that are eligible and it doesn't look good for the posting whiteboard in DPO; particulary, as some one else observed, with all the new toys being delivered. That is exactly when you want to retain corporate knowledge, not bleed it!!!
All this was covered around the turn of the decade, but of course after 9/11 caused the airline industry to grind to a halt the RAAF was happy that the problem was solved. It's come back to bite them now!
Everyone knows what the solutions are, they are the same solutions that line pilots have been articulating for the last twenty years, which are the same solutions that successive generations of personel management have paid lip service to over and over again.
Nothing has changed, and nothing will change this time, but I would dearly love to be proved wrong. :(

Aircraft overstress
 

Griffinblack,

Mate, the regimental callsign gives you away a little too much.:=
I just want to know what aircraft you were flying at 120kts and 3 feet over fences.

Although I do agree with you about the excellent flying, there is no way we are authorised to fly below 10ft outside an approved TFA, and considering we fly with doors off, the acft vne is 100kts. I just want to know what bent frame you were flying so I don't have to fly it again...:yuk:

Or are you one of those identified as a rogue pilot within the regiment?:ooh:

Cheers

You beat me to it PAF.

Only 10 kilos?! Being a greeny vego doesn't count:E. I remember when I went for that ADFA scholarship thingy waaaay back in year 11 and being told that I was underweight and needed to gain a few kilos. I certainly took that advice to heart.:hmm:

Nice posts by CSD and DA. Pretty much sums it up.

I don't think that spec aircrew is necessarily the answer to this problem. Sure, for the 3 to 4 guys who get it it's great, but for everyone else that's 3-4 flying slots that they won't be getting for 5 to 10 years.

ruprecht.

Not just the RAAF!
 

There's been a recent exodus from AAAvn. Given current shortages it can only lead to more strain amongst those staying in.

S64

With respect to Aavn, I understand army have no candidates for the upcoming course starting at Tamworth – perhaps someone else can confirm this? Army are bleeding QFI’s big time. They have lost several QFIs from Darwin and Oakey recently. They are also introducing ARH, MRH and perhaps more CH47 and training aircraft in the not too distant future. Interesting times indeed!!!

Wardog.

Your assumption about my callsign is correct. However, notwithstanding the doors on Vne, I have flown other types (not trying to give too much away here). And… I flew in an era when NB GND LVL was the norm. Now I am probably giving away too much info!

Remuneration. I too am not convinced a retention bonus is ideal. I do however believe remuneration needs to be competitive. I am not sure that the current market forces along with financial incentives continues to make ADF flying competitive. At the end of the day financial security is a very strong motivator and starting pay in for airlines may be below FLTLT (10 year Q and S) but it rapidly overtakes it. This in no may negates the previous comments about the continued desire of individuals to continue flying and the need for stability. My point being that remuneration needs to be competitive and I am not sure it remains so any more.

Please take a swig of harden up ladies
 

What a lot of mind-numbing drivvel. I served in green for 20 years and every moment was worth bottling. I travelled overseas several times, although I have to admit Somalia is not on my list of places to revisit. I was posted far more often than the whinger who talks about postings every 2-3 years :{

The RAAF doesn't want people to stay fying at PLTOFF level for 20 years plus, it needs young pilots who have a bit of mongrel in them and there is no shortage of people lineing up. RAAF consistently achieves its recruiting targets and a solid throughput of pilots out the other end is desireable. Like it or not, pilots are not the centre of the universe, I know, I know, they are the only people in the Defence Force who really understand the issues, it must be that forced accomodation in a 4-star hovel that caused them to see the light.

Civilianising the air force was the best thing the ADF ever did.

Might be true Scorpio, but .....
 

More power to you Scorpio, you've knocked back a few cans of harden the *&$% up, happy days. But the trouble is, what to do about retention? So what if the ADF aviators of today aren't as hard as you? The problem isn't retaining folks who are happy to @#!+ their spouses' careers, drag the kid out of school (again) for another interstate syllabus interruption, move every 2 years (or more frequently), get postings to holiday resorts like Puckapunyal, Tindal, Oakey, etc etc, and get to be project managers, recruiters or business analysts instead of aircrew.

The problem is retaining those folks who want to be given the chance to have some stability in their lives and become extremely proficient at the one job they're enjoying. ELSE THEY LEAVE!

Are you referring to students or QFI's? Still the usual numbers of Army students turning up at TW. Got 3 Army QFI's at the moment, but as usual that could change at short notice.:rolleyes:

Scorpio69,

The point went the other way - you missed it..................

As a pilot who has done my fair share of @#%& ground jobs I only partially agree with this.
The reality is everyone has their price. People don't move to Saudi for the lifestyle! Similarly people don't just go to Qantas to keep flying. After all being a second officer is basically a ground job in a mobile office for all the actual hands-on flying you get. Lots of people do it primarily for the money, whether it be in the long or short term. Many forgo promotion to stay a second officer and pick their trips.

The moving around every 2 to 3 years is definitely part of it, but again if the Air Force made it worthwhile financially, your spouse may not be so annoyed about his/her stalled career when the pay cheques roll in. Again this is what you see in the expat community in the UAE etc. Obviously everyone's circumstances are different, but a BIG pay rise would make a difference to retention rates.

So if it is so important for us to do those ground jobs, and move us around, and deploy us frequently and for long periods - the Air Force had better come up with a remuneration package that makes it worthwhile.
Would you stay for $180K? How about $200K, or $250K...

P-A-F,

What you are saying is that the (ADF) employer contribution remains in consolidated revinue increasing at what I believe is CPI. Incidentally, I thought we were able to access our super at 60. The employer contributions for a person employed in the civilian sector remains in a super fund and will thus grow at the rate of that fund – currently funds are doing very well.

The difference is that our employer contributes between 17% to 28% of our final 3 years average salary (for the vast majority of us in MSBS). That means for the average FLTLT (or equivalent) who earns (3 year average) $100,000 our employer is contributing between $17,000 and $28,000 per year to our super. I think that is quite competitive from a ’package’ point of view.

Of course, you can only leverage that sort of return by remaining ‘in’.

Incidentally, you say the majority of RAAF (presume ALG, or all FEGs?) tours will be 4 years of flying followed by 2 years later on. 6 years of flying in total! How can guys have the technical expertise to be sound commanders and staff officers with the sum total of 2 flying tours adding up to 6 years flying? Particularly, if you have been out of the game for 8-10 years. How do guys feel about the 3 year sunset clause and loosing Q&S?

Jeese some of you blokes winging have already been in the RAAF too long reading some of the drivel you are coming up with. A few home truths:
1. The RAAF doesn’t give a sh*t if you leave. In fact the whole system is designed for TURNOVER of personnel. The whole posting, promotion system is designed to continually bring new blood that are green, keen and will put up with the crap that comes with being in the military.
2. The RAAF does NOT think that every pilot wants to be CAF. I’m not sure if you noticed but there are fewer SQNLDR positions than FLTLT, few WGCDR than SQNLDR etc and there is only one CAF. So the whole system is designed to actively get people promoted as you get older/more experienced away from flying in order to open the spots to new younger fresher greener spots. The older guys either get promoted if that is what they want or get out, jack of not flying. This is what the system WANTS. To say it is wrong just because you, who feel your experience of stick and rudder skills flying aircraft in the RAAF, counts for something in the RAAF, means you have completely missed the whole way the defence force recruits and retains people. The RAAF wants a rather large percentage of (insert job type – not limited to pilots) to leave so that new blokes can come in and the people who have not yet had enough get promoted to train the new blokes.
3. The only time the system actually cares if more people are leaving than they can recruit is if this condition actually carries on for a good number of years. Whilst with our new 13555 member RAAF doesn’t have anywhere near the fat it once had prior to 1991, the system really doesn’t care. Just have a look at current ops. I met an LACW Box packer the other day who had been in for 3.5 years and had spent more time overseas on ops than she had back in Australia since joining. What this shows is that we WILL continue to screw people for everything they are worth and more in order to meet whatever the govt wants us to do.

It is blatantly obvious even to blind Freddie, that the RAAF either wants you to get promoted or get out. The fact that YOU want to keep flying is irrelevant. The RAAF has no room for 45 year old FLTLT’s A Cats who just want to keep lighting the sky or ground (20,000ft/20ft) on fire, that is the job of the 20 something relatively new bloke.

Seems to me that a lot of the posters here simply haven’t discovered the reality of how the ADF works. Once your ROSO is up, the RAAF no longer wants you flying. Get out or get a desk job.

Me, I’m gone in 3.5 months after 14.5 years to greener (and better paying) pastures. No I’m not bitter and twisted, just understand the reality of the RAAF and also what PAF put down as the financial reality of the military pay and super system. Good luck to those staying in, hope you enjoy your desks and promotion as I am sure that you blokes who are staying and get to the lofty heights, will look back on this archived thread in 10 or 15 years and make all the changes that you wanted as a senior FLTLT/SQNLDR


Cheers
CB

Griffinblack

I stand to be corrected, but since the officer pay restructure I understood that the Q&S was all rolled into the salary bands and there aint no reduction provision any more. The only extra is the disability component -ie: if posted to flying or not. Can anyone confirm this?

R M,

You could be correct. I was under the impression that if you were not in a flying related position for greater than 3 years, you went from pay group 10 (or whatever you were on) back to pay group 2 (?) – that is, you lost the Q&S component. I would be happy to stand corrected.

CB,
That's all well and good to say that the RAAF wants 10 years flying out of their pilots and they either step up or step out but who is going to train all these green recruits if there are no QFIs to run the schools and the OPCONs? With all this hardware turning up in a relatively small amount of time ATG are really going to struggle to keep up with demand. Retention might not be such an issue for your average line driver but it is for anyone with a training job to fill.

CB

Bloody great post mate! Took the words right out of my mouth.

Oz Born: Most QFIs I know are still within ROSO.

RAAF Pay
 

Hi all,

I know the talk is all about those leaving but could someone pass on some info re joining?

Specifically after what pay a 4 year FltLt pilot would be on.

Ive been through the website but cant make sense of the bands etc.

If anyone has any info on recruitment reqs and how negotiable the RAAF is for someone transferring from another military I would appreciate a PM.

Cheers

juliet

OZBorn,
Most of the QFI's are indeed only in their early to mid 30's anyway and will either be a FLTLT or SQNLDR. They are either just out of ROSO or still have some remaining. The other point with QFI' is they are still flying. Might not be exactly as they envisaged, but they are still in an aircraft.

As for all these new aircraft coming on line, this is also largely irrelevant as most training is being done by a contractor, or other forces (C17 as an example). The training that is done in a SQN is no different to what is currently done - at least for the RAAF - and as has been shown here on this board, there will always be blokes who are yet to see reality outside of the RAAF and will take the QFI jobs, the squadron instrutor jobs etc just to "stay flying". This then gives them another few years flying in the Big Blue.

Don't get me wrong these people are needed but their numbers are so small that they will usually always be found. In addition to this is the restructure of the reserves where we are now getting back previously lost experienced pilots who did get out. They now have a chance to come back and stroke their egos by flying something fun as opposed to simply getting paid lots to manage their highly automated flight decks on milk runs, but more importantly than this flippant statement, is these pilots can provide a pool of relatively experienced pilots. From what I have seen of the few so far morale is sky high amongst these blokes and why wouldn't it be, they are getting paid shed loads then "on the weekend" they come and fly RAAF toys and get the best of both worlds?

We could always flog a few pilots from 2SQN for another couple of years to fill any immediate holes:D.

So as I said before the only real problem the RAAF has with pilots is the there are a lot that thinks the RAAF owes them a flying job. The quicker that you realise the RAAF doesn't want you flying beyond 35 the better off you will be financially and job wise. By job wise I mean take a desk job in the RAAF and try and become CAF or get out, flying airliners, keep the family happy, watch the bank account and assets grow (or at least spend more!) and then if you really want to fly something with a military rego, join the reserves and help out the boggies who are yet to come to grips with reality!

My two cents anyway

Cheers
CB

Additional post to add:
It is not only Pilots where I believe what I have posted above applies. It is all trades within the RAAF. Have a look at Aircraft Techo's now vs even ten years ago. The whole RAAF is changing. Techo's now wouldn't have a clue as to how to take apart a fuel control unit or trouble shoot an actual WRA. They are now simply Removal and Installation specialists. Everything is sent back to OEM or manufacturer for anything other than basic repair and overhaul. In fact I had a rather senior RAAF officer tell me about 6 months ago, that with the introduction of all the new airframes, the RAAF doing absolutely nothing except flightline stuff, in about 20 or so years the only people on aircraft still in uniform will be Pilots and Gunnies! If you think about it and actually look with both eyes open, you can see how this statement might indeed be more than a senior officers musings.... (Sorry to get off topic - back to pilot retention now:O)

Cheers CB

It seems that way PAF. Most of the ex-RAAFies in the airlines seem to be able to solve all of the RAAF's woes after a couple of beers.:ok: If only they'd stayed in, the RAAF would be right as rain!:)

ruprecht.

nothing like a couple of beers to provide clarity...
The main problem is that the Navs stay in, thus DGPERS can't work out why no one is satisfied with the way things are being run.

CB,

Hats off - you've just managed to order and clarify the swirling cloud of career-confusion I've been playing with for a while. I guess the frustration comes from the fact that a lot of guys give their heart and soul to the job for a lot of years (because it's feking great), and expect something in return. In reality, the return comes in the form of the irreplacable times you have and the mates you share experiences with. As a very talented old-and-bold recently told me, his resignation was a huge anti-climax; where was the brass band after 20 years of sweat?

Great post.

Cloud Basher,

That was very good. I very much enjoyed your précis. You seem to have a very firm grip on reality and you will be rewarded well in your next job I am very sure!

I left the RAAF after more than 18 years service. And that delayed leaving was only because they kept giving me such great jobs! When I did leave people were saying I was a dick for leaving before 20 years and the reward of a lifetime pension. As it turned out, I was then able to then earn just the "barely adequate" amount of money in less than the next 20 years. So much so, that I am now financially independent! And this was after me leaving the RAAF as a pauper with a large mortgage in my late thirties.

My advice to all military aviation souls is to suck up the training, the fun and the experience and then go on out into the world to make some serious money with your talents before it is too late.

I have quite a few absolutely brilliant friends that went to the bitter end and retired as one and two star generals, and I feel very sad for their situations in their retirements.

that 's all well and good FR, but what makes you think that your 'advice' is either desired or needed??

Whether someone 'stays or goes' is a very individual issue; and I probably know as many 'generals' that you refer to that have retired entirely satisfied and with no major regrets.

Just as I know a few who regret following the herd and resigning and now would have preferred they didn't; and some of them do have some quite reasonable bank balances.

To my former brethren i proffer the following:

Firstly there is no better flying career opportunity than is offered in the military, sadly, it does end all too soon. Just make the most of it as you go, don't let the puny allowances and annoying blunts etc spoil the fun, just enjoy the time spent with SQN mates, the experiences and freedom allowed and flexibility afforded you by the organisation. Believe me, you will be living on the memories for the rest of your life.

Some guys seem to think that they'll enjoy the airline life far more, or it will be easier on the family, but this can be a false perception. Think about how many guys get divorced soon after joining an airline. I reckon its because the missus thinks everything will be different and was blaming the RAAF for all their troubles, but then found that little changed after the transition to civvy street. It can be a good move as long as you are sure that you have experienced and achieved all that you wanted from the RAAF and you have no false perceptions about airline life. For some, this will occur at the end of ROSO as they probably never really fitted in with the system, or it was obvious that their onward RAAF career was limited anyway. For most, its the tricky decision of... do I get out, or take the C17/C130J/BBJ/A330/QFI etc opportunity and stay for a few more years? True, financially it is better to get out ASAP, but did you join for the money?...I didn't and I didn't leave for the extra cash either. Money is a means to an end not a raison d'etre, if it is for you then you're wasting your time in the flying game -become a tradesman and charge whatever you want for your services!

Bottom line is, don't leave too early and be under no illusion, airline life is not that satisfying, however it can be pleasant, even fun at times and if you're in a similar position as I was towards the end of my RAAF career, you can get your life back after having it squeezed out of you through ridiculous workloads.

How do you know it's for you? - easy, if you currently enjoy flying and socialising with workmates when downroute and think you can maintain an interested in the flying biz, then you'll be fine. If not, don't expect it all to be magically better in the airlines. Also, if you're not a SQNLDR by the end of your 2nd flying tour, are you really that interested in what the RAAF has to offer long term? Consider that you must move up to be a senior officer at some stage, which requires you to be a manager with piloting experience not the other way round.
For those who stay in to climb to the dizzying heights of Air Rank, I applaude you, you are better men than me.:ok:

"Also, if you're not a SQNLDR by the end of your 2nd flying tour, are you really that interested in what the RAAF has to offer long term?"

I got to the end of my 8th and still wasn't a SQNLDR :) - some intricate ducking and weaving to get to that point but!

I understand the arguments about the need for progression through the system and so on, but surely there's a place for the specialist pilot to help with the retention of all those small but important bits of knowledge about why we do things in certain ways that seem to get lost so easily when experienced people rush out or get pushed out the door, as the case may be.

A bit like your US Army CW4s, the crusty old individuals who are there to know all that stuff while the young thrusters wash in and out of their lives on their way to bigger and 'better' things.

Some good well thought out posts here about whether to stay or go.

In regards to the Air force structure Cloud Basher is right to say the airforce doesn't want everyone to stay after their ROSO expires. However having been in a Squadron with an average of 1 1/2 years on type and a Squadron with an average of 5 years on type I know which one I'd rather go to war with. I think the airforce leans too heavily on the high through put model.

As for myself I firmly believe that after 10 years of ROSO you have the right to look after number one when it comes to deciding whether to stay or go. If the airforce wants higher experience levels over youth it needs to do something about retention. If not then people will vote with their feet.

Cloud Basher,
I’d like to reply to a few points you made in your post #60. It’s not my intention to have a go at you, it’s just I see in you some of the same opinions and frustrations that lead me to part ways with Ronnie over 10 years ago.
Firstly, congratulations on your new job. It’s a big step leaving the “sheltered workshop”, but I’m sure you’ll adapt just fine. You didn’t actually state if it was a flying job you’re going to, but whatever it is I hope it all works out.
I’ll start at the end……….
I put it to you that you are. That’s perfectly normal for someone in your position, and that’s because you have:
and it really p!sses you off. I was exactly the same.
I agree entirely with your points 1 and 3. The RAAF is designed for turn over. They will screw you, and keep screwing you until you do something about it. However you must agree that the ADF’s job is to fulfil the military objectives of the government of the day, whether or not the actual individual agrees with their motives.
I’d like to reply in more detail to your point 2. if I may.
You’re dead right, of course. That’s how a hierarchical system like the military works, and that’s the point I was making. There is only 1 Chief, and the “system” must provide a few more 2-star’s, more 1-star’s, even more GPCAPT’s etc etc. What I was trying to articulate was the idea that the RAAF places more importance on manning an already bloated command chain at the expense of keeping experience at the sharp end. The RAAF is both acquiring lots of new airframes and is more operationally busy than the Vietnam era. Surely the RAAF can change it’s priorities to ensure the experience is placed where it is most beneficial – supervising the young blokes as they whistle around Iraq for example, rather than ensuring the CAF’s coffee is the right temperature. As an aside, senior officers always bang on about “the 60 Minutes test”. I wonder what those sensationalistic muck-rakers would make of this?:hmm:
Trust me mate, I know it! That’s why I got out in the first place! And that’s why you’re getting out too, I wager. Are you trying to tell me that if the RAAF had offered you a real long term flying tenure that you still would have left? Ironically, during the years I was out I continued to gain more “stick and rudder skills” in my area, which was one of the reasons Ronnie re-hired me! I can assure you that the only reason I’m still here is because the RAAF has agreed to afford me locational stability in a flying job.
This pretty well sums it up. Stay in and get promoted/grounded. Again, that’s my point. If retention is really the goal (as they say it is) the RAAF needs to make a fundamental change in the way it manages their people. In addition the RAAF must review manning with a view to minimising those ground positions that must be manned by pilots. Ripping pilots out of flying positions at the point where they’re becoming really useful (i.e. senior FLTLT/SQNLDR level) in order to feed the bloated command chain only pisses them off. Giving people more of a say in their career must contribute to retention. There will always be those that want to climb the greasy pole of promotion – leave it to them.
Moving to your post #67……..
No-one owes anyone a job. You are correct in that the RAAF doesn't want you flying beyond about 35.
The fact that the RAAF is willing to spend literally millions on recruiting and training pilot’s, only to chuck them behind a desk right at the point where they really useful is quite absurd. We both know that, and we have both done something about it. You have pulled the pin, and I am benefiting from their own short sightedness.:)
Ah, so you do agree with me!;)
My (and many others) perception of the command chain is that they are too blinkered to look outside a very small box and make concrete changes to improve retention – if they are genuinely interested in that. My prediction is that the same old tried and proven (not to make much of a difference at all, that is!) strategies will be trotted out, and those senior officers responsible will move to their next promotion with a smug feeling of “having done something” without having to rock the boat by actually doing nothing that will really make a difference.
And that’s me to a tee!! My No 1 priority is locational stability for the family. The RAAF have given me that with a flying job as well. Might not be exactly what I’d really like, but it’s not about me any more.
Once again, best of luck in your new job C.B.

ftrplt,

I entirely agree with you that is an individual decision on whether one choses to stay or to go. But it is also a life changing decision that should be taken with the best available advice of those who have previously been faced with the same decision in the similar circumstances.

Those individuals with previous experience include both you and me. We both can throw our two bob's worth into the mix for whatever it is worth. Whether or not anyone actually listens to old despots like us, let alone take heed of our advice, is neither here nor there. Our life experiences are offered to the younger chaps for them to evaluate and pick and choose. Best regards to you and the other milts and hope all are in good health!

As someone who, sometime this week, will be signing on for a six and a half year ROSO, I can vouch that some of us younger chaps (haven't been called that in a while) do listen, and even take notes of what you old despots pass on. The problem lies in the fact that while taking notice, us young-uns tend to want to repeat said mistakes. Perhaps it's that the stories just are not believable :ok::ooh:

No worries FR, agree with you. Just thought your post was more written as 'guidance' rather than 'opinion'.

Agree with Cloud Basher; pretty well summed up.

Captain Sand Dune; do you know for a fact that:

or is that just your opinion of the system. I don't disagree with you in that there could definitely be improvement (always can be; and again how depends on the eye of the beholder) but there is certainly a lot of cynicism in the way you write. For example:

doesn't do your 'argument' any favours!!

reacher,

I hope hope you make the right decision for you and your family.

As an aside I wonder if you took long service leave (and possibly delaying your re-sign commitment) and had a sniff around the outside world if that would make a difference?

Just over a year after I resigned from the RAAF, they sent me a letter offering me my job, rank and pay back as if I hadn't left! Sometime later still, they were offering jobs to many of us carry out flying training. So perhaps if one does leave and subsequently has regrets, all is not lost?

FR,

I'll be out of ROSO in my mid - late 30's. Im single at the moment (shhhh, just don't tell the girlfriend that) so i'll most probably acquire one of those family things along the way. Never had the intention of being a lifer/careerist anyway, threads like these just confirm my beliefs.

reacher,

OK, I just hope ftrplt doesn't read this post because already I have got into trouble for offering guidance rather than opinion.

**** man, get your arse out of there now! Right now! You are too old to be in the Service unless you are absolutely dedicated to progress to the top. It does not matter if you don't even have a civvie job lined up just now. Get your civvie quals sorted quick and start the application process asap.

In the meantime, if the Service throws you out because you haven't signed up again, so be it. You have plenty of savings to keep you going for at least six months. You WILL get a job in that time. In any case, if you have second thoughts, you can go back to the service with cap in hand and beg.

You will NOT have to do that!

A single man in his thirties flying airliners? Life doesn't get any better!

:)

Thanks for the concern and the advice (I wont tell ftrplt if you don’t :ok:)

I think you've got the wrong idea of my situation (although it was a nice look into my future :cool:) I'm 25. I'm not in the mob, yet. I sign up, for the first time 11th July. Traipse into RMC 12th July and endure a fun loving 18 months. This is what I’ve been working towards for years. Hence me not being all that worried about my ROSO being up in my mid - late 30's.


Thanks again for the advice and that goes to everyone here. Lots of gen, now it's just up to me to remember it and figure out what to do with it all.

full course at RMC? GDO