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Instructing takes skill

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Old 6th Jun 2003, 11:20
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Exclamation Instructing takes skill

Have recently gone through my flight training with the usual problems associated with instructors! The quality of instruction made me quite ill as I saw dollar after dollar just disappearing from my bank account. I made a vow to myself that I will become an instructor after my CPL training and I WILL NOT follow in the footsteps of my instructor! I will strive to become one of the best instructors in Australia.

Besides, I saw many other new CPL pilots go off and do their instructor rating and get a job so why not me?

Just over 2 months ago my sister got her Learners Permit and I have been teaching her to drive a few times per week. At first I loved it, the responsibility and trust your 'student' gives you. We both were having a great time! But alas....after the first week I begun to get bored and agitated. My comments became less constructive and I showed more criticism. Both of us were clearly not enjoying it as much as we initially did.

I COULD SEE THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING BUT APPEARED TO BE DEFENSELESS AGAINST THIS NEW ATTITUDE THAT WAS INFECTING ME.

Just would like to get your opinions on this matter and whether you suffered the same fate as an instructor. Did you ever get over this attitude and if so, how? Even if you are not an instructor I'd be happy to hear what you think. I think more research and discussion on the psychology of instructors could be beneficial for everyone!
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Old 6th Jun 2003, 12:53
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Thumbs up What a bl**dy good post!

Victa, one of the best questions/observations I've seen on Pprune for awhile.....

Firstly, let me say that flying instruction for the most part is one of the most underestimated, underrated and under paid jobs in this industry. As a career instructor, you are expected to deal with the whole gammit of personalities from the poor right through to the stinking rich and every one of them has differing demands/expectations/time constraints/monetary constraints/etc, etc etc (the list just goes on). Of equal importance, the flying instructor is ultimately responsible for the standard of the industry in the future and if we have poor instructional standards and attitude NOW, these these attitudes and standards will pervade the industry. The new CPL bloke who embarks onto flying instruction as a means of gaining 'hours' until the airline job comes along can (and I must stress 'can') cause standards to be significantly lowered unless he works hard at producing a reasonable product. The same can be seaid for the older types who have been at it for too long and are just waiting to move on or retire. It really is a balancing act trying to find the right people to instruct!
Your own scenario with teaching your sister to drive says it all. Once the novelty wears off (and it took you less than 1 week), then instructing becomes a very difficult and demanding job.
Let's see what comments we draw now! Standby!
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Old 6th Jun 2003, 12:56
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I had a few problems with my first instructor as I was one of those "you don't know what you don't know" students. However, the crap hit the fan just before my PPL test when it was discovered a few significant training factors had been overlooked. Anyway, I put it to the owner of the company and the CFI that I refused to train with that person again and changed to a much better instructor. Then for my IFR I flew with the CFI and we both knew where we stood, re. my ability to perform and who was paying the bills!!

Don't for one minute think that just because you are under someone else's command you are worthless. YOU are paying their wages, and never doubt the power of letting them know that either in the cockpit or on the ground in front of senior staff!
 
Old 6th Jun 2003, 14:16
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I had a similar problem recently while going for an endorsement. The instructor was a great person, but had no real people or psychology skills in dealing with different types of people.

He just got his CPL then his grade three and out training in a high performance aircraft.

The problem was due mainly to the CFI not coaching him in this area. When you’re training someone you have a minimum and maximum time that you expect a student or trainee to have grasped something. If the CFI is not watching over the instructor and keeping and an eye out on how your progressing something is wrong.

It was that bad I nearly walked away from the endorsement, as my flying skills appeared to drop and get worse, and then I changed organisations and the self esteem return real quick plus passed the test. (It was all to do with people skills and communication. There is a lot more to it than getting an instructor rating)
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Old 8th Jun 2003, 05:55
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Propswinger.
I totally agree, Victa very interesting subject.
Most days I can't wait to get to work but there are some students which I would rather not hop in a plane with, but saying that hopefully they are not aware of my feelings, they receive the same standard of tuition.
I find the job demanding, frustrating and rewarding, I really get a kick to see the grin on a students face after achieving solo, GFPT, private and so on, it makes it worth while.
Victa I don't think I would try and teach any of my family I did start driving lessons with my children but handed them on very quickly.
The pay is lousy the conditions sh**house but would I do anything else NO. Cheers Q
 
Old 8th Jun 2003, 07:11
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Several observations ..

(a) One should ensure that the student is well-briefed and has access to a suitable, pertinent and defined set of reading material. You cannot expect the student to understand if he/she doesn't have a reasonably clear idea of where the goalposts are.

The instructor's expectations of student progress should be reasonable considering the individual student's abilities to learn. (The military can afford to scrub people early on against a milestone assessment system but this is not overly appropriate for recreational flyers). It is not appropriate for the instructor to expect student progress against criteria which are not achievable, for whatever reason, by the particular student. On the other hand, one should push the student within the particular student's capabilities.

(b) demonstrate skills exercises to the extent reasonably necessary but no more than that ... most skills exercises are best learnt by a little demonstration and lots of supervised practice.

An appropriate level of constructive comment assists student understanding and retention. Conversely, destructively negative comment (sarcasm, etc) should have no place in the learning process - this is not to suggest that negative comments are never appropriate, but warranted praise and consistent encouragement tend to get better results.

(c) accept that a student will provide frustration for the instructor and do your best to overcome your own frustrations at apparently slow progress by the student. The instructor's attitude can colour the student's thinking very rapidly and self confidence exits quickly with predictable results .....

(d) while some instructors may be more suited to the job than others for whatever reasons, we all can do a better job today than we did yesterday if we maintain a "good" attitude ourselves.

(e) keep clearly in mind the fact that the student is paying big dollars for the privilege of learning to fly. You owe it to the student to give him/her the best value for the dollar according to your own ability.

Just my twopence worth ...
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Old 8th Jun 2003, 09:02
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Cool

The same observations from perhaps the other end of the process.

I have been involved in training <300 hrs pilots to "operate" high speed bizjets and wide bodied heavy RPT A/C and the above comments fit our end of the scale just as accurately as the abinitio.

There are Insructors who should not be instructing and Students who have absolutely no place in an Aircraft.
Patience, preparation, sheer hard work, a little luck with the occasional good landing to show it can be done all hopefully produce an "Operational Pilot" at the end of the process be it first solo or check to line F/O BoeingBus.

When the Student is ready the Instructor will emerge.

If you would send your Granny with him/her, then probably ready for solo.

The center line was painted by a little man working in the hot Sun, it is rude not to follow it.

You can't teach anyone to fly, but with a little help most people can learn the art.

and dare I say it, CRM is good fun.

C YA




 
Old 8th Jun 2003, 10:08
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Devil

greybeard - we just have to match up the students who have absolutely no place in an A/C with the instructors who should not be instructing and give them jobs at CASA when they finish their training and the problem would sort itself out.
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Old 8th Jun 2003, 11:55
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Victa,

I'm sure you know, but there's flying and teaching. They're two totally different skills.

One thing you might have working against you is that you're teaching your sister to drive. If it were not a relative then it may be different as you could start with a clean slate and not carry over any baggage from being siblings.

It might also be a clash of personalitles, because you can't teach everyone. They may need a different person to learn from.

That being said, I was able to train my brother and he got a PPL. I was ready for it to be a failure though, but it worked out quite well. That is without a doubt the aviation achievment I am the most proud of.

FWIW, I've not done too much instructing and it was all part time, but I learned a lot from it.

Anyway, keep at it and talk to your sister about it if you want. she might give you insights that'll help you and then you'd be teaching each other.

BTW, your post suggests that you have what it takes to be a good instructor.

Also, keep your eye on your students because sooner or later they'll try and kill you
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Old 8th Jun 2003, 20:04
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Cool

Slice,

I have been out of Aust for 13 yrs, but feel that your comments ref CASA are surely policy.
Brief contact and some quite amazing lack of courtesy coupled with an "Old Boy" network of ex RAAF leaves me speechless. Male superiority in it's extreme as regards the fairer sex in one case which may bite them yet.
I guess there are some good ones there, only time will tell, but 30 years ago one said "I don't need to be checked out on anything, I am an Examiner of Airmen" so the myth lives on????

C YA

 
Old 9th Jun 2003, 16:45
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Thumbs up

how is being a flying instructor and a little bored any different to any other jobs, a charter pilot doing his three hundreth scenic flight will be bored $hitless.

think its bad as a pilot, i wonder how a gynaecologist would contibute to this topic.
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Old 9th Jun 2003, 17:28
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Some really good points have been raised here.

From my instructing experience I found it always helped, being able to adjust my attitude to each student who you sit next to.

Constructive critisism worked well with the businessman when I asked him to, "Maintain the centreline please." But when I flew with the local motor mechanic, things along the lines of "Are we landing on grass left today?" worked quite well. Always depended on the style of the customer of course and always in their interest.

Victa I think you identified "Instructor burnout" when you said you were'nt enjoying teaching as before.
Stop "instructing" for a wee while and I always found you bounce back with a vengeance.

Cheers
GA Driver
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Old 9th Jun 2003, 17:41
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Good subject Victa

Good luck with instructing Victa - as someone else said it can be a very rewarding job or (heaven forbid) career.

Russ Evans said to me on my first instructor renewal that "most students can learn to fly, and do learn to fly, DESPITE their instructor." I now understand what he meant (although I knew far too much to understand at the time).

I would be the first to admit that I had a couple of hundred hours instructing before I could really contribute $30 worth for my $35/hour to the students time. With about six years, 2,500 hours and 1,000-odd hours instructing I still wouldn't teach my sister how to drive.

Beware of "honorary" instructors and "honorary" instructional positions - your interest, motivation and professionalism will - in time - sink to the same value as your paycheck.

Best of luck for your career.
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Old 9th Jun 2003, 17:54
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Lightbulb

From my instructing experience I found it always helped, being able to adjust my attitude to each student who you sit next to.
Excellent observation GA Driver. I think what you mean is that you have to pitch it at different levels sometimes...

When an instructor encounters problems with a trainee, it's easy to blame the student for whatever reason. If you take a couple of steps back and ask yourself "Is there's something I'm not quite doing right, or is there another way I could teach this guy/girl the sequence" you might find the answer.

Being flexible and adaptive as a trainer is a fantastic quality that is often lacking in this industry.

An example is a teacher who taught me Principles of Flight at TAFE. We got to a point where most of the class was stumped (he could read it). He launched off into another technique of explaining the same problem, and the penny dropped with most of the class.

Principles of Flight was one of the few subjects I did really well in, and I put the blame squarely on this guy, because of his teaching style.

Years later, he is a Check Captain in my company (by coincidence), and still uses the same style to get his message across. It makes the whole process of checks a whole lot easier
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Old 9th Jun 2003, 20:33
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Lightbulb

As with many other non-aviation professions, there are many "instructors" who go to work to get it over asap, until the next pay cheque goes into the bank account.
You'll know them when you fly with them - and that sounds like the experience Victa had. Unfortunately.

Most of us in aviation do the job BECAUSE we like it - not in spite of it. And some people, having spent the money and time to get themselves into an Instructor position - but then subsequently finding that they don't like it - may not feel that they are in a position to move on. Again, you'll know these people when you fly with them.

You Victa, are paying the $$$'s. There is no good reason for persisting with an Instructor whom you feel is not delivering the goods.
You'll be better off, and s/he will also probably get far greater satisfaction from NOT flying - a "win-win" situation.
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Old 9th Jun 2003, 21:05
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left handed rockthrower

on your 300th scenic no one is careing how bored you are....cause they're lookin out the window enjoying what they have paid for....your not required to do anything but drive em round!!

very different story for a student wondering why their instructor is not showing any interest in teaching them because he/she is too bored to care...



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Old 10th Jun 2003, 09:07
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The problem with a large percentage of instructors that they couldn't give a damn about their students. Fact is, they got the rating so they could get some hours and avoid the door knocking experiences of the bare 200hr cpl. This is a big problem for a wannabee that is trying to learn. The key for the wannabee is to find an instructor that enjoys their job and sees each flight as an opportunity to teach as opposed to another hour in the logbook.

How many of you have sat next to an instructor who has gone off their head at you for making a mistake? Possibly everyone has had this experience. This is a tell-tale sign that this person shouldn't be teaching anything to anybody - in fact they need to do some learning themselves.

Luckily I ended up with some good people teaching me - took some effort to find them though!
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Old 10th Jun 2003, 10:09
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Good topic - close to my heart
Some thoughts:

1 Managers/CFIs need to sort out the CPL trainees into Instructing types and Non Instructing types early in their training and start grooming then.

2 Cpl trainees need to love teaching if they want to become an instructor. Any experience in a leadership/trainer position teaching will generally indicate whether they like it or notthis to them. They should have some experience at public speaking as well as one on one instuction.

3 The rewards will come from within. Quote QNIM "I find the job demanding, frustrating and rewarding, I really get a kick to see the grin on a students face after achieving solo, GFPT, private and so on, it makes it worth while."

4 The good instuctors I have seen care about their students and their welfare and this is often returned in the most obscure ways.


5 My two favourite students were one, who started at 57 years, had left school in 4th grade and went on to achieve his PPL and aerobatic ratings. He would come to my house after hours and we would sit down and go through elementary maths and science so he could get through the exams. Previously he had worked on the wharves and each time a new electrical appliance( fallen off the back of a truck) would appear on our doorstep with him ready for the next lesson! The second one also started later in life at the age of 63 and went on to PPL and NVFR still flying at the age of 74. Great achievments both.

6 My younger students have also gone on to achieve their potential and that's what it's all about. Getting the potential realized.

7 Variety - the spice of life. Instructing in the same sequences over and over can get tedious. The good CFI will help the junior instuctor to advance and gain further Qualifications to enable them to have some variety. A professional development program for instuctors is at present being developed by ASFA

see http://www.asfa.com.au/pdf/summer03_issue1.pdf

Also RACWA has a good program to encourage instuctors to delevop their skills.

8 The older more experinced instructor also needs to revisit abinitio training from time to time. Don't be frightened of getting back in the 150 an doing a bit of circuit training or stalls etc.

9 Doing an instuctors rating will really teach you how to fly (or how much you don't know as a CPL).

10 As an instuctor I use the Demonstrate, Direct, Monitor method then let the student learn by dicovery, as much as is safe - I always cover the rudder pedals and have my hand close to the control column below 500ft, no matter what the experience level of the person I'm flying with.

11 Victa, good luck with your decision and if you choose the instructing path give it everything and enjoy the rewards.


PS have taught two of my daughters to drive - more patience needed than any of my students!
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Old 10th Jun 2003, 12:11
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Previously he had worked on the wharves and each time a new electrical appliance( fallen off the back of a truck) would appear on our doorstep with him ready for the next lesson!
And do you demonstrate, direct, and monitor your daughters on accepting stolen goods and thieving potential? What a friggin moron. Give him 9 months weekend detention per $300 electrical goods recieved, I say. Justice for all!
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Old 10th Jun 2003, 22:15
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Let's face it, hear in Oz 90% of Instructors are only building hours. Every hour that they fly with a student it is just one more hour in their log book on their way to a bigger aeroplane and a fatter pay cheque.
They lack experience, it is a case of babies teaching babies.

Having said that, there are other problems as well

The problem that schools are facing now is that the well of instructors seems to be drying up. They also no longer want to work anywhere except in major cities, no one wants to move out to the country areas, where there are many students, better weather, a short taxi to the runway where there is no queue and controlled airspace is only a short Nav away.

Country School also provide accommodation.

Anybody interested?
 


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