Circuit Breakers
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Circuit Breakers
Just climbed into my aircraft the other day and one of the ciruit breakers was tyraped open.
I have heard of this before, a system is faulty so the engineers tyrap it to prevent the pilot from trying to use the system.
The bad side is when the engineer accidentally tyraps the wrong circuit breaker....
Then you could have two systems unavailable.
Has anyone out there had this happen to you, I would like to hear some of the stories to pass on to my engineer and C/P.
For the record I cut the tyrap and refuse to fly an aircraft with circuit breakers tyrapped like that.
If it is an obsolete system then remove the C/B. If it is a U/S system the tag it, snag it and let the pilot know.
Thanks
I have heard of this before, a system is faulty so the engineers tyrap it to prevent the pilot from trying to use the system. The bad side is when the engineer accidentally tyraps the wrong circuit breaker....
Then you could have two systems unavailable.Has anyone out there had this happen to you, I would like to hear some of the stories to pass on to my engineer and C/P.
For the record I cut the tyrap and refuse to fly an aircraft with circuit breakers tyrapped like that.
If it is an obsolete system then remove the C/B. If it is a U/S system the tag it, snag it and let the pilot know.
Thanks
Passtime no. 15
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Wrong circuit breaker type Liquid!
We are talking mechanical and not the fleshy sort!
By the way, its way horny when those circuit breakers cut loose!
God bless airconditioning!
We are talking mechanical and not the fleshy sort!
By the way, its way horny when those circuit breakers cut loose!
God bless airconditioning!
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Turbo,
If the defect is deferred under an MEL which requires CBs to be "tripped & clipped" then the MEL must tell you which one/s.
All you need to do is check and confirm that the maintenance procedure has been carried out (including tripping & clipping) and you should be on your way (bearing in mind any limitations or special procedures applicable under the MEL.
If it's not covered by specific documentation such as an MEL then you do it at your own risk.
Tie Raps and CB clips achieve the same end. They stop us from making the situation worse
If the defect is deferred under an MEL which requires CBs to be "tripped & clipped" then the MEL must tell you which one/s.
All you need to do is check and confirm that the maintenance procedure has been carried out (including tripping & clipping) and you should be on your way (bearing in mind any limitations or special procedures applicable under the MEL.
If it's not covered by specific documentation such as an MEL then you do it at your own risk.
Tie Raps and CB clips achieve the same end. They stop us from making the situation worse
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Hey Otter clipping,chicken ringing,C/Bs is caried out for a reason,To stop Dick heads as your self from re setting them.
CASA make you do it especialy when you get a permit to fly say with the gear locked in the down position,Its there to stop further damage to systems.I hope any low time pilots dont take your advice and cut the tyraps.A LAME has certified for clipping the C/B.Soo If you re set it and you burn, whos too Blame
CASA make you do it especialy when you get a permit to fly say with the gear locked in the down position,Its there to stop further damage to systems.I hope any low time pilots dont take your advice and cut the tyraps.A LAME has certified for clipping the C/B.Soo If you re set it and you burn, whos too Blame
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Hey gottom 2 dollar,
Dickheads like me don't reset c/b's. If it is popped there usually is a good reason. If it maybe tagged, logged in the log book or whatever is standard company policy then it DOES NOT have to be tyrapped.
The same problem is still there in my aircraft, (auto pilot u/s) the A/p doesn't work, so it is snagged, by myself and there are only two pilots that drive this machine.
I leave the c/b out and don't touch it, the other pilot has it tyrapped, guess what the engineers did the other day, they tyrap the c/b above the auto pilot, "gear pump 2"
If you have Dickheads flying then I suppose you should tyrap the c/b's.
If you have a pilot that knows when not to touch then you can just label it and record it and be on your way.
My question was for anyone else that has the wrong c/b tyrapped by engineers.
Thanks
Dickheads like me don't reset c/b's. If it is popped there usually is a good reason. If it maybe tagged, logged in the log book or whatever is standard company policy then it DOES NOT have to be tyrapped.
The same problem is still there in my aircraft, (auto pilot u/s) the A/p doesn't work, so it is snagged, by myself and there are only two pilots that drive this machine.
I leave the c/b out and don't touch it, the other pilot has it tyrapped, guess what the engineers did the other day, they tyrap the c/b above the auto pilot, "gear pump 2"
If you have Dickheads flying then I suppose you should tyrap the c/b's.
If you have a pilot that knows when not to touch then you can just label it and record it and be on your way.
My question was for anyone else that has the wrong c/b tyrapped by engineers.
Thanks
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Turbo - Tie wraps are there not only to prevent pilots intentionally resetting C/B's put also to guard against accidental resetting.
Ie, someone puts a book on a horizontal C/B panel and unknowingly resets the offending C/B or someone moves a seat backwards with something in the rear pocket and resets the C/B on a vertical C/B panel.
As Jarse said -
Too easy!
Ie, someone puts a book on a horizontal C/B panel and unknowingly resets the offending C/B or someone moves a seat backwards with something in the rear pocket and resets the C/B on a vertical C/B panel.
As Jarse said -
All you need to do is check and confirm that the maintenance procedure has been carried out (including tripping & clipping) and you should be on your way (bearing in mind any limitations or special procedures applicable under the MEL.
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Whilst tie wrapping the wrong C/B is bad it occours to me that the only reason it was in to be tie wrapped was because some fool cut the original one off!
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it has to be done your way.
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it has to be done your way.
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TurboOtter,
Are you telling me engineers know which pilots are not so smart and which ones are. "I don't know why it caught on fire, I thought he was one of the smart ones"!
I say tie wrap it if needed make sure relevant paper work is complete and don't touch unless advised by engineering. Who's to say you're right!
I once heard a LAME say "I'm the F*^%$%G engineer you're the F*#%$&*G pilot"
Just out of interest how many pilots fly the same aircraft as you?
Are you telling me engineers know which pilots are not so smart and which ones are. "I don't know why it caught on fire, I thought he was one of the smart ones"!
I say tie wrap it if needed make sure relevant paper work is complete and don't touch unless advised by engineering. Who's to say you're right!
I once heard a LAME say "I'm the F*^%$%G engineer you're the F*#%$&*G pilot"
Just out of interest how many pilots fly the same aircraft as you?
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Good point Crash n Burn.
Accidental resetting could happen. Finally someone with some real reason.
For the record I have had the wrong c/b ty rapped many times, as Jarse said, I have noticed and it has never been a problem, it just worries me the one time I don't notice, that's all.
Sometimes during the day the Engineer comes down to the aircraft to see if he can fix the problem and then can't, his mind isn't on picking the right c/b, his mind is on the problem. Engineers aren't super human and do make mistakes, sometimes.
(I am a engineer aswell so I am not taking the piss out of anyone)
Voodoo.... Only one other pilot drives my machine, in the future two, but we have a good communication system to make sure that each pilots knows about snags.
I have never cut a c/b tie wrap without knowing the full reason it is tie wrapped in the first place, so I would never advise someone to just cut off any tie wraps they come accross, although I would advise to allways find out why they are tie wrapped.
Accidental resetting could happen. Finally someone with some real reason.
For the record I have had the wrong c/b ty rapped many times, as Jarse said, I have noticed and it has never been a problem, it just worries me the one time I don't notice, that's all.
Sometimes during the day the Engineer comes down to the aircraft to see if he can fix the problem and then can't, his mind isn't on picking the right c/b, his mind is on the problem. Engineers aren't super human and do make mistakes, sometimes.
(I am a engineer aswell so I am not taking the piss out of anyone)
Voodoo.... Only one other pilot drives my machine, in the future two, but we have a good communication system to make sure that each pilots knows about snags.
I have never cut a c/b tie wrap without knowing the full reason it is tie wrapped in the first place, so I would never advise someone to just cut off any tie wraps they come accross, although I would advise to allways find out why they are tie wrapped.
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TurboOtter
The "good communication system" of which you speak is of course the aircrafts Maintenence Release ? hmmmmmm 
Only one other pilot drives my machine, in the future two, but we have a good communication system to make sure that each pilots knows about snags.
Turbo Otter,
Don’t mean to sound too critical, But, it sounds from this side of my computer your maintenance system with regards to MEL, PUS and the like is almost non existent.
If you have engineers that are regularly pulling and tie wrapping incorrect circuit breakers then you have more of a problem.
If you don't mind a suggestion, not knowing your location, next time you have an opportunity ask one of the larger regional airlines that you come across can one of their pilots show you how their maintenance system works in this regard.
All the ones I have come across work fine.
Something along the lines of, an engineer or pilot discovers a problem.
An entry is made on in the maintenance release ( or whatever you use). The engineer either rectifies the situation or the pilot or engineer refer to the MEL and determine whether the aircraft can be flown with this item U/S.
If it can be flown there will be a maintenance and possible operational procedure attached to the MEL. This maintenance procedure may include pulling and tie wrapping the circuit breaker.
When the next pilot turns up to fly the aircraft he can determine what the problem was to start with, what maintenance has been carried out and if there are any continuing limitations imposed.
And finally of course the system will be placarded
inop
If you have engineers that are regularly pulling and tie wrapping incorrect circuit breakers then you have more of a problem.
If you don't mind a suggestion, not knowing your location, next time you have an opportunity ask one of the larger regional airlines that you come across can one of their pilots show you how their maintenance system works in this regard.
All the ones I have come across work fine.
Something along the lines of, an engineer or pilot discovers a problem.
An entry is made on in the maintenance release ( or whatever you use). The engineer either rectifies the situation or the pilot or engineer refer to the MEL and determine whether the aircraft can be flown with this item U/S.
If it can be flown there will be a maintenance and possible operational procedure attached to the MEL. This maintenance procedure may include pulling and tie wrapping the circuit breaker.
When the next pilot turns up to fly the aircraft he can determine what the problem was to start with, what maintenance has been carried out and if there are any continuing limitations imposed.
And finally of course the system will be placarded
inop
Last edited by RENURPP; 26th Feb 2003 at 04:12.
Flying schools and MEL/PUS
This is the type of incident that indicates to me that flying schools should BE REQUIRED to have MEL's and PUS's for all their fleet.
From day one student pilots will in at least one way grow up within the real situation of aviation after flyingf schools.
Can any body suggest a reason why this isn't and shouldn't happen???
I asked this question of CFI care and others on a topic earlier last year with 0 response, what do you think??
From day one student pilots will in at least one way grow up within the real situation of aviation after flyingf schools.
Can any body suggest a reason why this isn't and shouldn't happen???
I asked this question of CFI care and others on a topic earlier last year with 0 response, what do you think??
