OzRunways bought by Boeing
Our industry cannot afford to rely on the whims of a Board to ensure the effective implementation of safety obligations; therefore, in the absence of an effective regulator industry requires access to an alternative supplier that can at a minimum keep the main player ‘honest.'
Gne
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: perth,western australia
Age: 73
Posts: 13
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Boeing/Ausrunways
Good luck to all who use Ozrunways after Boeing"s purchase.They have effectively stuffed every company they have bought.Aviall WAS one of the best suppliers of G.A. parts and products.Boeing's bunch of clowns turned it into the most inefficient,non-user friendly companies in the world of aviation.I dealt with them from the old days when it was called Van Dusen (40+ years ago).Their prices were reasonable,but the most important thing was availability,which is what keeps you flying,which obviously is the name of the game.They obviously entered the G.A. market using the wrong staff who had little or no product knowledge of what they were selling.I used to phone or walk into their Jandakot facility and,10 minutes later,walk out with my requirements.Now the availabilty is ex USA on most popular items.A few years ago they didn't even have a Baron main wheel tyre in Australia and none on order!!!! That was only one of hundreds of commonly used parts that are no longer stocked in Australia.
They have also made it fairly clear that they don't want "small" clientele.
If you don't have an account your effectively stuffed.They won't accept cash but if you have a cash account you can use your card,with one little catch - minimum cash sale is/was $250.So if an owner walks in to grab a spray pack of flat black to tidy his prop up,its going to cost $250 + gst.Now thats what I call SERVICE!!!!!
Thank God I retired after 50 odd years selling parts because I no longer could tolerate todays lack of service in most fields of commerce.I have a philosophy that the higher the ISO rating,the worst the service.
Good luck to anyone entering general aviation it sure has changed since the 70's.
They have also made it fairly clear that they don't want "small" clientele.
If you don't have an account your effectively stuffed.They won't accept cash but if you have a cash account you can use your card,with one little catch - minimum cash sale is/was $250.So if an owner walks in to grab a spray pack of flat black to tidy his prop up,its going to cost $250 + gst.Now thats what I call SERVICE!!!!!
Thank God I retired after 50 odd years selling parts because I no longer could tolerate todays lack of service in most fields of commerce.I have a philosophy that the higher the ISO rating,the worst the service.
Good luck to anyone entering general aviation it sure has changed since the 70's.
The traffic display is ONLY as good as your 3G/4G/5G connection, regardless of the product you are using.
A SkyEcho will show a real-time ADSB-in feed of your local area, regardless of cellular signal. Of course, it will also do ADSB-out for other SkyEcho users if you don't have a fixed transponder in your aircraft.
The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out (and IN) the better.
I tried AVPLAN in past but gave up as not as user friendly as OzR.
However I would like to try AVPLAN again if Bevan or someone can point to some improvement in usability, or some good education material.
This OzR change in ownership would seem to be Bevan's golden opportunity. Hope he grasps it by addressing the negatives of AVPLAN whilst retaining the positives.
I am keen to support local business, but AVPLAN needs to improve compared to my last try some years ago.
However I would like to try AVPLAN again if Bevan or someone can point to some improvement in usability, or some good education material.
This OzR change in ownership would seem to be Bevan's golden opportunity. Hope he grasps it by addressing the negatives of AVPLAN whilst retaining the positives.
I am keen to support local business, but AVPLAN needs to improve compared to my last try some years ago.
1. Glide range indication ring (like the one in Foreflight),
2. Significantly increased traffic display (nearly nearly everyone is using it these days!), and
3. By far the most important for marital harmony... the missus gets an automated SMS every time I takeoff and (safely, presumably) land!!
Maybe have another go (30-day free trial).. and see what you think.
You REALLY need to purchase a SkyEcho if you are valuing the traffic availability in your EFB. This goes for both of the products.
The traffic display is ONLY as good as your 3G/4G/5G connection, regardless of the product you are using.
A SkyEcho will show a real-time ADSB-in feed of your local area, regardless of cellular signal. Of course, it will also do ADSB-out for other SkyEcho users if you don't have a fixed transponder in your aircraft.
The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out (and IN) the better.
The traffic display is ONLY as good as your 3G/4G/5G connection, regardless of the product you are using.
A SkyEcho will show a real-time ADSB-in feed of your local area, regardless of cellular signal. Of course, it will also do ADSB-out for other SkyEcho users if you don't have a fixed transponder in your aircraft.
The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out (and IN) the better.
You know what its biggest flaw is?
All the ‘nuisance’ traffic that’s displayed. That’s the traffic that’s in the flight levels. It’s distracting from what could be actual threats to me.
The equivalent flaw is ‘reversed’ for aircraft at very low heights and low speeds. That flaw is why the two helicopters involved in the SeaWorld tragedy would most likely not have been alerted to their impending collision by on-board ADSB IN systems.
In short, ADSB – IN is not a panacea for mid-air collisions.
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Give that feedback to your EFB provider.
The sooner they add in user based altitude filters for ADSB traffic the better. Throw in some audible alerts too for good measure.
The sooner they add in user based altitude filters for ADSB traffic the better. Throw in some audible alerts too for good measure.
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Traffic on EFBs is a very poor substitute for actual ADSB IN integrated into your avionics. It’s actually bordering on useless for collision avoidance. It’s adequate for situational awareness.
nobody is staring at their EFB in a busy terminal environment.
we’ve already done this to death in the sea world thread.
ADSB IN/OUT is absolutely fit for purpose - if installed, configured and used as it’s designed. Is it perfect? Of course not.
The problem is that maybe 2% of the fleet in Australia satisfies that criteria and maybe 5% of pilots have used it. That’s the issue.
Although the traffic display on Ozrunways is significantly easier to read in the cockpit (plus if you tap on the symbol it enlarges) and just better IMO,...if it looks like a quiet day out there in the Ozrunways world, a quick glance at Avplan would show that it isn't!! User beware.
FWIW, my biggest concern with SkyEcho and similar EC products is, like the warnings we ignore on firing up the GPS (you know you do - admit it..) the risk of the user placing even more reliance on the device showing them everything out there than they usually see on their EFB. Perhaps, in that regard, Ozrunways mere 'tease' of surrounding traffic is a good thing??
I have used OzRunways, AvPlan, and Foreflight. The latter is now my preferred EFB. Foreflight was actually one of the oldest iPad apps ever, actually launching as an app before the iPad was created.
If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.
As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.
I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.
If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.
As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.
I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.
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Foreflight doesn't have cameras (yet). That's stopping a lot of pilots from looking at it seriously.
We've created a culture here of pilots checking the weather cameras and blasting off whilst not checking the weather forecast :-)
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Pretty common in SaaS acquisitions. Yes, they're buying the competitor who has the most market share. They'd also be interested in any IP and learnings they can take from OzRunways to make ForeFlight better.
I have used OzRunways, AvPlan, and Foreflight. The latter is now my preferred EFB. Foreflight was actually one of the oldest iPad apps ever, actually launching as an app before the iPad was created.
If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.
As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.
I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.
If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.
As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.
I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.
So I discussed this directly with OZR yesterday to see if that functionality would make its way to OZR. The short answer is no, and the current plan is for them to remain operating as they are, as a sub of FF/BA. OZR app remains in operation as is.
So don't expect FF or OZR to change here (at least in the near term.)
I agree that its a great result for the OZR team.
I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus, I think they just looked at a complementary business with prob 5mm of revenue and 22k+ users, with a lot of scope for synergies aka cost out.
So I discussed this directly with OZR yesterday to see if that functionality would make its way to OZR. The short answer is no, and the current plan is for them to remain operating as they are, as a sub of FF/BA. OZR app remains in operation as is.
So don't expect FF or OZR to change here (at least in the near term.)
I agree that its a great result for the OZR team.
I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus, I think they just looked at a complementary business with prob 5mm of revenue and 22k+ users, with a lot of scope for synergies aka cost out.
So don't expect FF or OZR to change here (at least in the near term.)
I agree that its a great result for the OZR team.
I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus, I think they just looked at a complementary business with prob 5mm of revenue and 22k+ users, with a lot of scope for synergies aka cost out.
..but it's good for Bevan.
My two bits, someone else said similar. Foreflight’s coming to oz, the market’s not big enough for 3 efbs so Boeing is simply taking out the competition to pave the way for foreflight. They will transfer all OzR subscriptions to foreflight. IE Boeing has bought the customer base, not the product. When that transition is done, they’ll close OzR and the brand will disappear from the market. And then of course they’ll bump the subs price substantially.
Last edited by Lazyload; 17th Feb 2024 at 01:36.
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I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus
yes I know. I tried it. Sorry I worded that badly. I meant to roll up existing OZR users into the FF app.
I think all we will see with OZR in the medium term will be maybe a subtle rebrand or a FF logo on the splash screen.
I’d imagine most users are sticky. They trial everything once and then stick with what they like. It’s hard to turn existing users. That’s why FF never gained much traction. I bet everyone was like me and trialed it but we’re not sufficiently impressed to ditch Avplan or OZR.
Time will tell I guess.
I think all we will see with OZR in the medium term will be maybe a subtle rebrand or a FF logo on the splash screen.
I’d imagine most users are sticky. They trial everything once and then stick with what they like. It’s hard to turn existing users. That’s why FF never gained much traction. I bet everyone was like me and trialed it but we’re not sufficiently impressed to ditch Avplan or OZR.
Time will tell I guess.
