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Small plane missing near Lucyvale Victoria

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Small plane missing near Lucyvale Victoria

Old 21st Sep 2022, 06:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
Here on PPRuNe, the unmentionable forum.
gawd, I must be dumb because Iím really confused now!
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 07:41
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Vale Mathew

Very sad.
From the brief information from this forum was that the weather at the time of the accident was bad.

Any further word?
?CFIT in bad weather, reduced visibility.
?Mountain wave with rotor (either in flight break up due turbulence or sinking air exceeding climb capability of the Jab).
Ref: Mountain wave turbulence (atsb.gov.au)
? Engine failure with nowhere to go.
Press on itis?

Would seem that he had flown this route before?

His route was heading towards a designated remote area (bound by Mt. Franklin, Khancoban and Jamieson on its western flank) with high cumulus granitus. (I have flown YPOK to YSCB in the past (I was in a C172), I went overhead YMAY and YTMU to avoid the designated remote area and the higher ground (although the Brindabellas (between YTMU and YSCB) get quite high, 4,758 at Big Dubbo Hill). Yes this was not the direct path, but one with a lot more options (airports, refuelling points, diversion points) along the way). This assumes that you are endorsed for CTA ops, otherwise you would have to skirt around the YMAY zone (or underneath the steps) and there is not much room between the hills and the bottom the steps close into YMAY.

Under RPL, you can add endorsements, such as ops in CTA.

Apparently also a paraglider pilot, so would assume that he would be savvy about micrometeorology in the high country.

I recall that in the last twenty years that a light twin (?destination Merimbula) accident occurred in a similar area due likely icing and probable mountain wave/rotor conditions, but I have been unable to find this on the ATSB website.

Vale mathew

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Old 21st Sep 2022, 07:56
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Originally Posted by Head..er..wind View Post
gawd, I must be dumb because Iím really confused now!
Run by someone that shouldnít run a forum (personal opinion). Prune rules say you canít link to it or speak of it. Itís like Fight Club (movie reference)

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Old 21st Sep 2022, 07:59
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Malt, I may be wrong but I think there was a signet out for severe icing over the divide from Sydney south to melbourne. That is on top of low cloud, Rain (4000m or less vis), Thunderstorms, moderate turbulence and snow showers.

ĎíThere is no way in hell that any VFR aircraft was going to get over the divide that day. I think you might have needed an IFR aircraft capable of entering icing conditions, but I donít know enough to know. except that it wasnít VFR for me in the same region.
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 08:30
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
Run by someone that shouldn’t run a forum (personal opinion). Prune rules say you can’t link to it or speak of it. It’s like Fight Club (movie reference)
Really?? Where in Prune rules does it say that? And Fight Club? I'm really confused.

Sorry for the thread drift.


Me too..........

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Old 21st Sep 2022, 09:29
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
Really?? Where in Prune rules does it say that? And Fight Club? I'm really confused.

Sorry for the thread drift.
The moderators usually tell us off for doing it because of some of the issues caused by the operator of the other website. Some issues came about when someone posted something from there on here and the owner of the other site said it was in breach of copyright because it was taken from their site. All petty crap really.

The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!

Last edited by Squawk7700; 21st Sep 2022 at 09:40.
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 09:54
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
The moderators usually tell us off for doing it because of some of the issues caused by the operator of the other website. Some issues came about when someone posted something from there on here and the owner of the other site said it was in breach of copyright because it was taken from their site. All petty crap really.
Well then, My last post to the other forum werenít allowed . So it is not part of that forum.

Anyway, not for this thread. Another dayÖ





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Old 21st Sep 2022, 15:20
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Originally Posted by MALT68 View Post
I recall that in the last twenty years that a light twin (?destination Merimbula) accident occurred in a similar area due likely icing and probable mountain wave/rotor conditions, but I have been unable to find this on the ATSB website.

Vale mathew
It was a C210.
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Old 22nd Sep 2022, 04:55
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Originally Posted by MALT68 View Post
I recall that in the last twenty years that a light twin (?destination Merimbula) accident occurred in a similar area due likely icing and probable mountain wave/rotor conditions, but I have been unable to find this on the ATSB website.
You may be thinking about this one.. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...aair199801415/

Six fatalities including two married couples, resulting in quite a few orphaned kids. Very sad story.
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Old 22nd Sep 2022, 13:11
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Thanks for those who provided the link to the aforementioned multiple fatality:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...aair199801415/
it was flying from Merimbula to Albury.
6 lives lost.
icing events, possible mountain wave/rotor, medical event not entirely excluded.
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Old 23rd Sep 2022, 16:41
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Clearly 4 fatal accidents is not good but as an RAAus pilot I think we have to look in more detail at the reasons.
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Old 23rd Sep 2022, 21:09
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Not limited to raaus. The 172 and 2 helicopters with 10 fatalities in very recent times come to mind and are possibly all looking like weather related decision making.
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Old 24th Sep 2022, 17:54
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The ATSB should be able to tell us if the current accident trend is a statistical ďblipĒ of no significance or an actual change in pilot behavior. The ATSB has long term records of all this stuff, donít they? There should also be FAA/NTSB comparative data as well.

I note that the U.S. AOPA has a few videos out on weather related decision making. They make the point early that there is a big skill difference between reading a TAF or Two for a local flight and forming a valid mental picture of the weather to be encountered over say a Four hundred mile flight. I donít think we test for the latter, at least at PPL / RAA level.

An RV (?) can take you a long way into a new weather environment in a few hours.

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Old 17th Oct 2022, 07:50
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
Clearly 4 fatal accidents is not good but as an RAAus pilot I think we have to look in more detail at the reasons.
What about some form of mandatory Met exam or something, do you think that would benefit the group?

Only say that, as I met a RAA Pilot last week, who was very new to flying with a recent Jab purchase, and I was quite disturbed around the lack of weather knowledge, or the ability to even decode a TAF. INTER and TEMPO the bloke had no idea.

I think they need to tighten the bolts around RAA Navigation. Radio License should be a must for those travelling long distances, in this case it seems be 135nm, and the bloke didn't even have a radio license.
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Old 17th Oct 2022, 08:27
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
What about some form of mandatory Met exam or something, do you think that would benefit the group?

Only say that, as I met a RAA Pilot last week, who was very new to flying with a recent Jab purchase, and I was quite disturbed around the lack of weather knowledge, or the ability to even decode a TAF. INTER and TEMPO the bloke had no idea.

I think they need to tighten the bolts around RAA Navigation. Radio License should be a must for those travelling long distances, in this case it seems be 135nm, and the bloke didn't even have a radio license.
Not having his radio endorsement is on him, not RAAus. Clearly he was operating outside the legal requirements.

Whilst youíre at it, see if you can get casa to tighten the bolts on pilots flying without valid AFRís and medicals and let us know when itís going to happen!

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Old 17th Oct 2022, 08:39
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I don't think you need a radio license when you operate under RAA with a Nav endorsement? Happy to be corrected.
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Old 17th Oct 2022, 10:07
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
What about some form of mandatory Met exam or something, do you think that would benefit the group?

Only say that, as I met a RAA Pilot last week, who was very new to flying with a recent Jab purchase, and I was quite disturbed around the lack of weather knowledge, or the ability to even decode a TAF. INTER and TEMPO the bloke had no idea.

I think they need to tighten the bolts around RAA Navigation. Radio License should be a must for those travelling long distances, in this case it seems be 135nm, and the bloke didn't even have a radio license.
RAAus have a mandatory Nav/Met exam for a cross country endorsement. I’ve never heard of a cross country endorsement issued without a radio endorsement, for that matter I don’t know of any RAAus schools that issue the basic certificate without a radio endorsement. I’ll bet your Jab man had neither. Suggest you send Jill Bailey, the RAAus ops manager an email with your concerns, you might save his life (or someone else’s). [email protected] 02 6280 4700.

Last edited by Cloudee; 17th Oct 2022 at 10:29.
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Old 17th Oct 2022, 10:29
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
I don't think you need a radio license when you operate under RAA with a Nav endorsement? Happy to be corrected.

A RA-Aus Radio Operator endorsement permits the holder to operate approved aeronautical frequency VHF radio equipment installed in or used in conjunction with a recreational / light sport aircraft.
It is definitely something you need to obtain.

ĒGenerallyĒ speaking, you may possibly earn this endorsement after completing a dual nav. That may explain any confusion.
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Old 18th Oct 2022, 05:25
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
I don't think you need a radio license when you operate under RAA with a Nav endorsement? Happy to be corrected.
Some of the confusion may also come from the RPC "Class G only" restriction.. Since you don't need a radio to fly in Class G, some may be tempted to think you don't need a radio license either.
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