ADS-B “IN” at Ballina?
It doesn't.
https://business.gov.au/grants-and-p...XVN9xOXGzf47mQ
It appears that a Jab, fitted with, would be seen by the SFIS and other aircraft which had ADS-B In. The fighter pilot in me likes that idea: "just give me a velocity vector!".
Old mate can have a government subsidized Skyecho.
Why don't we have a "CTAF (R + XPDR + ADSB)" requirement anywhere RPT operates together with a requirement that ASA maintain ADSB reception and use it for separation?
WHy did I have to spend $3500 for a mode S transponder +$900 for an approvable GPS source + $700 for ADSB - IN ..... and yet I'm not even allowed in controlled airspace? AsA doesn't even monitor ADSB, let alone use it in anger?
To put it another way, I can see old mate in his Jizzler 700 with his skyecho. I can't see the RPT Airbus inbound because he doesnt transmit ADSB (?). The Airbus can't see me unless we get close enough for her TCAS to generate an RA because she doesnt have ADSB - in, the Airbus also can't see Old Mate and AsA can't see any of us because there is no radar down low and it isn't even looking at ADSB at all?
This is only going to end one way ...... a smoking hole and a Royal Commission.
Why don't we have a "CTAF (R + XPDR + ADSB)" requirement anywhere RPT operates together with a requirement that ASA maintain ADSB reception and use it for separation?
WHy did I have to spend $3500 for a mode S transponder +$900 for an approvable GPS source + $700 for ADSB - IN ..... and yet I'm not even allowed in controlled airspace? AsA doesn't even monitor ADSB, let alone use it in anger?
To put it another way, I can see old mate in his Jizzler 700 with his skyecho. I can't see the RPT Airbus inbound because he doesnt transmit ADSB (?). The Airbus can't see me unless we get close enough for her TCAS to generate an RA because she doesnt have ADSB - in, the Airbus also can't see Old Mate and AsA can't see any of us because there is no radar down low and it isn't even looking at ADSB at all?
This is only going to end one way ...... a smoking hole and a Royal Commission.
Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Apr 2022 at 08:53.
I look forward to ATSB, CASA and Air Services justifying an RPT aircraft full of passengers lost as a consequence of a collision with an RAAus aircraft in the vicinity of Ballina, on the basis that it’s the first of an extraordinarily unlikely event. A bit like a one-in-one thousand year flood or a shark attack at a Sydney beach.
No air traffic control in the surrounding airspace.
No control tower for the aerodrome.
An RAAus aircraft that is:
- Not certified airworthy by CASA.
- Not piloted by a person licensed by CASA.
- Not piloted by a person medically certified by CASA.
- Not required to carry a serviceable transponder.
All ‘legal’ and ‘not unsafe’, according to CASA and ATSB. Air Services couldn’t care less. It all makes perfect sense. I’m sure the travelling public will understand and move on.
No air traffic control in the surrounding airspace.
No control tower for the aerodrome.
An RAAus aircraft that is:
- Not certified airworthy by CASA.
- Not piloted by a person licensed by CASA.
- Not piloted by a person medically certified by CASA.
- Not required to carry a serviceable transponder.
All ‘legal’ and ‘not unsafe’, according to CASA and ATSB. Air Services couldn’t care less. It all makes perfect sense. I’m sure the travelling public will understand and move on.
Sunfish:
WHy did I have to spend $3500 for a mode S transponder
Because TCAS will pick up your mode S. As far as avoiding heavy metal goes, that was the best investment you could have ever made.
To put it another way, I can see old mate in his Jizzler 700 with his skyecho. I can't see the RPT Airbus inbound because he doesnt transmit ADSB (?). The Airbus can't see me unless we get close enough for her TCAS to generate an RA because she doesnt have ADSB - in, the Airbus also can't see Old Mate and AsA can't see any of us because there is no radar down low and it isn't even looking at ADSB at all?
I may not be reading this right, but if you have ADS-B in, you'll see the A320 because we all have ADS-B out (IFR requirement since 2020(?) and you'll see the Jab if fitted with that gadget.
Likewise, if the A320 has ADS-B In, they will see other ADS-B Out aircraft.
WHy did I have to spend $3500 for a mode S transponder
Because TCAS will pick up your mode S. As far as avoiding heavy metal goes, that was the best investment you could have ever made.
To put it another way, I can see old mate in his Jizzler 700 with his skyecho. I can't see the RPT Airbus inbound because he doesnt transmit ADSB (?). The Airbus can't see me unless we get close enough for her TCAS to generate an RA because she doesnt have ADSB - in, the Airbus also can't see Old Mate and AsA can't see any of us because there is no radar down low and it isn't even looking at ADSB at all?
I may not be reading this right, but if you have ADS-B in, you'll see the A320 because we all have ADS-B out (IFR requirement since 2020(?) and you'll see the Jab if fitted with that gadget.
Likewise, if the A320 has ADS-B In, they will see other ADS-B Out aircraft.
Sunfish
You appear not to understand the rules
VFR aircraft only Mode S transponder if operating in Class E or C airspace
ADS-B is not required for VFR
Why can’t you enter controlled airspace?
You appear not to understand the rules
VFR aircraft only Mode S transponder if operating in Class E or C airspace
ADS-B is not required for VFR
Why can’t you enter controlled airspace?
The Airbus has probably had ADS-B OUT longer than you’ve had your IN Sunfish. Do keep up.
Yet Sunfish is free to fly in the airspace around Ballina, whether his aircraft is or is not fitted with any 'ADS anything'.
Thank you Capt. Bloggs, I was unaware of the ADSB out 2020 requirement for RPT. I lost a years flying thanks to Covid.
Vag, I understand and comply, however I don't understand why VFR aircraft (VH or RAA) without a transponder or radio(?) are permitted to operate in the vicinity of a CTAF with RPT operations.
RAA pilots are not approved to fly in CTA. An RAA aircraft may, provided it is equipped with a TSO'd radio and transponder and it is not precluded from flying over populous/ built up areas on its certificate and it is piloted by somone with a PPL and current BFR as well as an RAA certificate..
My normal practice as an amateur when inbound and an RPT aircraft calls inbound or departing is to defer to them and manoeuvre to keep well clear. A few orbits or slowing down until they are out of the way costs me nothing.
Yes, I work on the basis that i have NFI. I therefore plan and do revision.
Vag, I understand and comply, however I don't understand why VFR aircraft (VH or RAA) without a transponder or radio(?) are permitted to operate in the vicinity of a CTAF with RPT operations.
RAA pilots are not approved to fly in CTA. An RAA aircraft may, provided it is equipped with a TSO'd radio and transponder and it is not precluded from flying over populous/ built up areas on its certificate and it is piloted by somone with a PPL and current BFR as well as an RAA certificate..
My normal practice as an amateur when inbound and an RPT aircraft calls inbound or departing is to defer to them and manoeuvre to keep well clear. A few orbits or slowing down until they are out of the way costs me nothing.
Yes, I work on the basis that i have NFI. I therefore plan and do revision.
AsA doesn't even monitor ADSB, let alone use it in anger?
But Sunny, don't stare at the damn thing, eyes outside once you've gotten a warning. There are limitations on its use. Don't be a flog, there are too many flogs in CTAF's/MBA's/MBZ's.
TCAS only needs a transponder, it does not need ADS-B in the other aircraft, just mode A, C or S. It can't make resolutions on Mode A though as it has no altitude readout to relate to, but it will give a warning of traffic via a TA. The range for TCAS is more than adequate almost always displaying traffic out to 10nm or greater, the display is only for situational awareness, not separation.
With regard to Ballina one point that I've also thought about with the A320 incident described above, is why it's allowed that a pushback can proceed that will block an aircraft vacating the runway. It needs to be written into procedures that pushback can not commence while an arrival may be forced to hold on the runway. This sort of thing can really only be solved by positive ATC control. Or some sort of holding allowance needs to be alerted that aircraft may have to hold for 10/20/30 minutes while RPT in operation to ensure they have adequate fuel. There needs to be coordination if an RPT procedure is going to cause delays due to aircraft size and movement area limitations.
It sounds to me that there is more than just the airborne issues at play here, if CASA is allowing multiple RPT jets into a port that can't handle them to be moving around at the same time without closing the runway strip.
With regard to Ballina one point that I've also thought about with the A320 incident described above, is why it's allowed that a pushback can proceed that will block an aircraft vacating the runway. It needs to be written into procedures that pushback can not commence while an arrival may be forced to hold on the runway. This sort of thing can really only be solved by positive ATC control. Or some sort of holding allowance needs to be alerted that aircraft may have to hold for 10/20/30 minutes while RPT in operation to ensure they have adequate fuel. There needs to be coordination if an RPT procedure is going to cause delays due to aircraft size and movement area limitations.
It sounds to me that there is more than just the airborne issues at play here, if CASA is allowing multiple RPT jets into a port that can't handle them to be moving around at the same time without closing the runway strip.
Originally Posted by 43Inches
It needs to be written into procedures that pushback can not commence while an arrival may be forced to hold on the runway.
Comedy gold, Capn! Keep the laughs coming. Thanks.
Sunfish
You are also wrong about RAA aircraft & pilots in controlled airspace. CASA has issued approvals where the training has taken place in controlled airspace. I suggest that you ask.
You are also wrong about RAA aircraft & pilots in controlled airspace. CASA has issued approvals where the training has taken place in controlled airspace. I suggest that you ask.
Vag, yes I've seen the yellow perils at YMMB in the past. However its for training only and once the trainees graduate with their RAA certificate and cease training, then for them its "no entry".
All this seems to be a peculiarly Australian problem. The USA seems to not have any of the same hangups we have in Australia.
All this seems to be a peculiarly Australian problem. The USA seems to not have any of the same hangups we have in Australia.
You were NOT forced to spend $5k on this and never was it mandated
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Airservices doesn't have ADS-B IN at Ballina. No circuit level coverage at all.
You'd think that every location that has a piece of AsA kit would be an ADSB location, every NDB, every VOR, every radar site, every VHF transmitter site, co-located with an ADSB group station.
‘True, but at the time. (2013 - 2016) there was considerable debate on mandating some solution and it would have been impractical not to specify a mode S transponder as part of a new avionics installation. It is a requirement for class E anyway.
So quit your whinging. Making out that the world is against you as usual Sunfish.