Airservices Class E changes

[missy]

From RAAus submission

RAAus opposes the Airservices proposal for ‘Lowering Class E on the East Coast’ of Australia. We also seek a comprehensive National Airspace Strategy, developed by Government, its agencies and industry, before making decisions of such magnitude that will remove the ability of a large segment of industry to safely continue participating in aviation activities. Importantly, we do support expeditious changes where unacceptable and demonstrable risk/s have been identified and where the outcome meets the intent of the Australian Airspace Policy Statement 2018 (AAPS) and the Airspace Act 2007 (the Act).

I have misread the first paragraph of their Executive summary?

Surely they mean "Importantly, we do NOT support expeditious changes where unacceptable and demonstrable risk/s have been identified and where the outcome DOES NOT MEET meets the intent of the Australian Airspace Policy Statement 2018 (AAPS) and the Airspace Act 2007 (the Act)."

[Sunfish]

Missy, double negatives. RAA says they support changes when justified as part of a published national airspace strategy.

[missy]

Originally Posted by Sunfish

Missy, double negatives. RAA says they support changes when justified as part of a published national airspace strategy.

OK, bad cop, good cop. We oppose, we support rather than oppose and oppose. Excellent submission by RAAus, well argued. Unfortunately government (department) is not engaged in the processes.

[Squawk7700]

Does anyone remember back to when they were going to give us all FREE ADSB transponders? Perhaps a $17m grant to RAAus would solve the issue and they can move forward... a small price to pay?

Oh, and free transponders to the rest of the Ga fleet too and backdate payments for those that already have it.

$80-$100m should cover it.

[missy]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

Does anyone remember back to when they were going to give us all FREE ADSB transponders? Perhaps a $17m grant to RAAus would solve the issue and they can move forward... a small price to pay?
Oh, and free transponders to the rest of the Ga fleet too and backdate payments for those that already have it.
$80-$100m should cover it.

Yes, and much less than the cost of a hull loss by Jetstar, Virgin.

[McLimit]

much less than the cost of a hull loss by Jetstar, Virgin.

Doubt they'd give a rats, insured.

[missy]

Originally Posted by McLimit

Doubt they'd give a rats, insured.

Says it all really.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by missy

Says it all really.

Seemingly a poor attempt at humour by McLimit.

[Sunfish]

McLimit is just displaying his ignorance.

[triadic]

With the consultation period closing tonight, it is interesting that I have not seen even one submission in support of what ASA have proposed.

[McLimit]

No, it wasn't a poor attempt at humour at all. They would be insured for such an event. How do you think MAS is still flying? If you think punters would stop flying an airline that lost a hull in Australia, think again.

Sunfish is yet again displaying his: 'I've got experience of this, I was in the C suite of an airline that lost a hull etc, etc, blah, blah, blah'

[Sunfish]

If you think punters would stop flying an airline that lost a hull in Australia, think again.

If it was Qantas, Virgin or Jetstar and the cause was found to be negligence by the airline, then yes, it will have two effects:

1) product substitution - take the car.

2) product preference - try another airline.

[triadic]

Thread drift.... return to topice please

[Gentle_flyer]

Originally Posted by triadic

Thread drift.... return to topice please

triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by Gentle_flyer

triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf

That would take a while to collate as they would need to remove all the abusive material in there, prior to public display.

[10JQKA]

Originally Posted by Gentle_flyer

triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf

Haven't seen any submissions being made available from Airservices, only a dozen or so Q&As on that "engage" portal they use for consultation. It's nothing like the CASA consultation page where submissions are visible to all.

[triadic]

https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/raaus...l-response.pdf

For those that may have missed it in a previous post, have a read. It covers most of the points raised by other organisations and individuals.

[10JQKA]

Submission from the "Drones" ppl.

https://aaus.org.au/class_e_airspace_proposal/

[Flying_higher]

Stay tuned for round two folks....this was released quietly today. The positive is that industry worked together by mobilising and now the original proposal is gone.
Of course there will be no accountability and you can bet there will be no self reflection. Rather, Airservices will typically blame industry for being negative instead of owning up to their own incompetence.
https://engage.airservicesaustralia...._feed#tool_tab

[10JQKA]

From the AsA engage portal,

"For the initial consultation period from 20 January to 15 February 2021, we received over 1,000 responses from all aspects of industry, including airlines, industry associations such as Recreational Aviation Australia (RAAus), Gliding Federation, Australian Airline Pilots’ Association (AusALPA), Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), Civil Air and various general aviation (GA) operators."

Over 1000 responses. Not a bad roll call given the time of year and the short time frames.