The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Airservices Class E changes

Old 12th Feb 2021, 09:31
  #201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 595
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
From RAAus submission
RAAus opposes the Airservices proposal for ‘Lowering Class E on the East Coast’ of Australia. We also seek a comprehensive National Airspace Strategy, developed by Government, its agencies and industry, before making decisions of such magnitude that will remove the ability of a large segment of industry to safely continue participating in aviation activities. Importantly, we do support expeditious changes where unacceptable and demonstrable risk/s have been identified and where the outcome meets the intent of the Australian Airspace Policy Statement 2018 (AAPS) and the Airspace Act 2007 (the Act).
I have misread the first paragraph of their Executive summary?

Surely they mean "Importantly, we do NOT support expeditious changes where unacceptable and demonstrable risk/s have been identified and where the outcome DOES NOT MEET meets the intent of the Australian Airspace Policy Statement 2018 (AAPS) and the Airspace Act 2007 (the Act)."

Last edited by missy; 12th Feb 2021 at 09:32. Reason: Spacing
missy is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2021, 10:00
  #202 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,565
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
Missy, double negatives. RAA says they support changes when justified as part of a published national airspace strategy.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2021, 10:13
  #203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 595
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Sunfish
Missy, double negatives. RAA says they support changes when justified as part of a published national airspace strategy.
OK, bad cop, good cop. We oppose, we support rather than oppose and oppose. Excellent submission by RAAus, well argued. Unfortunately government (department) is not engaged in the processes.
missy is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2021, 20:49
  #204 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,620
Received 93 Likes on 45 Posts
Does anyone remember back to when they were going to give us all FREE ADSB transponders? Perhaps a $17m grant to RAAus would solve the issue and they can move forward... a small price to pay?

Oh, and free transponders to the rest of the Ga fleet too and backdate payments for those that already have it.

$80-$100m should cover it.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2021, 02:34
  #205 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 595
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Squawk7700
Does anyone remember back to when they were going to give us all FREE ADSB transponders? Perhaps a $17m grant to RAAus would solve the issue and they can move forward... a small price to pay?
Oh, and free transponders to the rest of the Ga fleet too and backdate payments for those that already have it.
$80-$100m should cover it.
Yes, and much less than the cost of a hull loss by Jetstar, Virgin.
missy is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2021, 07:47
  #206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: McLimitVille
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
much less than the cost of a hull loss by Jetstar, Virgin.
Doubt they'd give a rats, insured.
McLimit is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2021, 10:04
  #207 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 595
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by McLimit
Doubt they'd give a rats, insured.
Says it all really.
missy is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2021, 10:59
  #208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,620
Received 93 Likes on 45 Posts
Originally Posted by missy
Says it all really.
Seemingly a poor attempt at humour by McLimit.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2021, 21:03
  #209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,565
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
McLimit is just displaying his ignorance.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 05:58
  #210 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
With the consultation period closing tonight, it is interesting that I have not seen even one submission in support of what ASA have proposed.
triadic is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 08:13
  #211 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: McLimitVille
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No, it wasn't a poor attempt at humour at all. They would be insured for such an event. How do you think MAS is still flying? If you think punters would stop flying an airline that lost a hull in Australia, think again.

Sunfish is yet again displaying his: 'I've got experience of this, I was in the C suite of an airline that lost a hull etc, etc, blah, blah, blah'
McLimit is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 19:53
  #212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,565
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
If you think punters would stop flying an airline that lost a hull in Australia, think again.

If it was Qantas, Virgin or Jetstar and the cause was found to be negligence by the airline, then yes, it will have two effects:

1) product substitution - take the car.

2) product preference - try another airline.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 22:30
  #213 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thread drift.... return to topice please
triadic is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 23:15
  #214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by triadic
Thread drift.... return to topice please
triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf
Gentle_flyer is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 01:21
  #215 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,620
Received 93 Likes on 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Gentle_flyer
triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf
That would take a while to collate as they would need to remove all the abusive material in there, prior to public display.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 01:23
  #216 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: The Rio
Posts: 161
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Gentle_flyer
triadic, exactly, some of us are better than this!

RE all submissions are negative to the proposal...has Airservices supplied access to all submissions?

Thanks in anticipation,

Gf
Haven't seen any submissions being made available from Airservices, only a dozen or so Q&As on that "engage" portal they use for consultation. It's nothing like the CASA consultation page where submissions are visible to all.

Last edited by 10JQKA; 16th Feb 2021 at 02:58.
10JQKA is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 03:28
  #217 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/raaus...l-response.pdf

For those that may have missed it in a previous post, have a read. It covers most of the points raised by other organisations and individuals.
triadic is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 06:37
  #218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: The Rio
Posts: 161
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Submission from the "Drones" ppl.

https://aaus.org.au/class_e_airspace_proposal/
10JQKA is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 10:44
  #219 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Oz
Posts: 29
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stay tuned for round two folks....this was released quietly today. The positive is that industry worked together by mobilising and now the original proposal is gone.
Of course there will be no accountability and you can bet there will be no self reflection. Rather, Airservices will typically blame industry for being negative instead of owning up to their own incompetence.
https://engage.airservicesaustralia...._feed#tool_tab
Flying_higher is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 11:08
  #220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: The Rio
Posts: 161
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
From the AsA engage portal,

"For the initial consultation period from 20 January to 15 February 2021, we received over 1,000 responses from all aspects of industry, including airlines, industry associations such as Recreational Aviation Australia (RAAus), Gliding Federation, Australian Airline Pilotsí Association (AusALPA), Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), Civil Air and various general aviation (GA) operators."

Over 1000 responses. Not a bad roll call given the time of year and the short time frames.
10JQKA is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.