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-   -   Airservices Class E changes (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/638165-airservices-class-e-changes.html)

thunderbird five 20th Jan 2021 20:54

Airservices Class E changes
 
Anyone seen this?
https://engage.airservicesaustralia....s-e-east-coast


Capn Bloggs 20th Jan 2021 23:45

AVSEF, where are you?

Class E wouldn't be so bad if Airservices actually provided some approach controlling; it doesn't, of course (as we have seen at Coffs) and all this will mean will be ground and airborne delays waiting for the other IFR to clear the area, all the while fighting on the CTAF (eg Sunshine Coast A320).

The only good part of this is that VFR will require a transponder unless they are in the weeds. In fact, if it's deemed that IFR must have E to improve safety, then it's high time that ALL aircraft, regardless of airspace type, mixing it with RPT have a transponder for TCAS.

Ex FSO GRIFFO 21st Jan 2021 01:45

I feel for ya Cap'n.
Who da thunk it...TCAS...the 'ULTIMATE' FIS in Ya 'Alphabet' soup........(Maybe.....)
Cheers

Sunfish 21st Jan 2021 03:57

So does this mean all VFR aircraft in the Eastern States will require a transponder and radio if not already fitted? At least if they wish to fly above 1500 AGL.

Why not add to the fun by requiring a special Class E endorsement?

Squawk7700 21st Jan 2021 04:29


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10972458)
So does this mean all VFR aircraft in the Eastern States will require a transponder and radio if not already fitted? At least if they wish to fly above 1500 AGL.

Yes, of course it will, in the affected areas. The devil in the detail will be whether it has to be ADSB or not.

The time is rapidly approaching for everyone to have ADSB. Is that a bad thing? Cost aside, probably not.

Styx75 21st Jan 2021 05:45

Not being able to operate clear of cloud beneath 3000qnh in class e would be the biggest barrier for me right now. I've used that clear of cloud minima to get out of some murky situations...

Bosi72 21st Jan 2021 12:50

I think 1500ft is too low. 3000ft would be more preferable so that VFR aircrafts could follow recommended flying levels when flying easterly at 1500ft and westerly at 2500ft.

​​​​

Squawk7700 21st Jan 2021 20:02


Originally Posted by Bosi72 (Post 10972756)
I think 1500ft is too low. 3000ft would be more preferable so that VFR aircrafts could follow recommended flying levels when flying easterly at 1500ft and westerly at 2500ft.

​​​​

They will still be able to do that... or do you mean that those wishing to not enter Class E will still be able to fly at 2,500ft under it and remain hemispherically correct?

Bosi72 21st Jan 2021 21:14


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10973047)
t... or do you mean that those wishing to not enter Class E will still be able to fly at 2,500ft under it and remain hemispherically correct?

Yes, and basically to allow separation for those wishing to fly in Class G.
The photo from airservices pdf brochure is not fair showing 1500ft like 1/3 of the total airspace..

Squawk7700 22nd Jan 2021 01:39

The process is far from over, so there is hope. Industry consultation is happening at the moment, eg RAAus and others.

LeadSled 22nd Jan 2021 02:26

Remember it was Dick Smith, when he was Chairman of CASA, who negotiated an agreement with the general aviation organisations (including AOPA) to mandate transponders in Class E. This was accepted by the GA organisations because it would give them the freedom to fly over Class D airports in Class E without a clearance.

The transponder mandate was introduced with Class E over D, but when Airservices reversed the Class E over D and replaced it with Class C, they left in the transponder mandate. It was an irreversible path towards more costs and more restrictions.

Tootle pip!!


Lead Balloon 22nd Jan 2021 02:35

Rumours of his PPRuNe demise were exaggerated. Is this a temporary visit?

triton140 22nd Jan 2021 02:49

Is it just me, or do others find it strange that this is expressed as AGL and not AMSL? How will that work in practice?

Lead Balloon 22nd Jan 2021 03:04

Easy: You just put in DAH and on charts: E LL 1500 AGL. What could possibly go wrong?

Squawk7700 22nd Jan 2021 03:25


Originally Posted by LeadSled (Post 10973258)
It was an irreversible path towards more costs and more restrictions.

Tootle pip!!

More costs, more restrictions and more SAFETY.

ADSB is a good thing, so donít suggest itís a burden at $900 per aircraft for private operators.

If bringing down class E to a lower level where ATC will better be able to see myself and other traffic, then Iím all for it, arenít you?

When I fly, I get excellent service in class E airspace, especially with ASDB-Out, as Iíll randomly get a call from ATC telling me about an impending near-death experience... how can that ever be a bad thing? !!!

Long gone will be the never ending calls..

ĒUnidentified aircraft 20 miles east of Temora at 7,500ft north east bound, do you copy, you are about to pass another unidentified aircraft at your 3 oíclock on climb from 7,200ft unverified, please acknowledge.Ē


Ex FSO GRIFFO 22nd Jan 2021 04:10

HA HA HA....."Your Safety Will Be Enhanced And It WILL COST YOU LESS".....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(The devil made me do it....honestly......)


(Tks again Dick for ......)

Squawk7700 22nd Jan 2021 04:21

If everyone had ADSB we would all be able to see each other and not rely on a stretched ATC !

Capn Bloggs 22nd Jan 2021 04:55


Originally Posted by Squawk
If everyone had ADSB we would all be able to see each other and not rely on a stretched ATC !

I'm not aware of any "normal" Boeings and Airbii that have ADS-B IN.

If ATC are going to be stretched then ASA should put on more controllers. Oh ,wait...


Originally Posted by Griffo
(Tks again Dick for ......)

Still going, Griffo? Must have been a BIG one $$$$!!

jmmoric 22nd Jan 2021 12:40


Originally Posted by Styx75 (Post 10972482)
I've used that clear of cloud minima to get out of some murky situations...

You're not supposed to end up there in the first place.

(Says the guy ending up IMC due stupid decision making)

Lead Balloon 22nd Jan 2021 17:53

I woke with a start this morning, as a consequence of a funny smell.

Dick Smith is active again about airspace arrangements and infrastructure, as a consequence of the release of the Mooney report....

Airservices releases a proposal about more E airspace...

Sniff, sniff...

What is that I’m smelling? I’m sure I’ve smelt it before in similar circumstances...

That’s it: An early election!

(Senior Advisor: “Hey Jason, we need something to keep Dick Smith distracted and on side for a couple of months.” Jason: “Leave it with me. I have just the thing.”)


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