Accident Near Mangalore Airport - Possibly 2 Aircraft down
OzRunways will already show ADS-B traffic if you have compatible hardware on board - and you won't need a data connection to see it. You will still need data to receive OzRunways-derived traffic though.
However, for cost and convenience, most EFB users are not going to bother carrying around additional hardware and my point is that ADSB Traffic from a source like FR24 via a data connection is still a better option than "OZ Runways Traffic" via the same data connection.
It would be nice to also carry satellite hardware to be able to download updated TAFs and METARs from wherever you are, but the 4G data connection is infinitely better than nothing and enough for most EFB users to be satisfied with. Traffic information to the best extent possible via that same data connection would be better than what we have currently.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It occurred to me that you could build an ATIS like service, with ADSB-in on a single box on the ground. It would use track data to model the airspace, and generate an output stream suitable for text to speech. The resulting audio would be transmitted on VHF.
So aircraft would get some of the benefit of ADSB-in without additional hardware.
So aircraft would get some of the benefit of ADSB-in without additional hardware.
But it's funny you bring this up, AvPlan now appears to feed ADS-B traffic as well as AvPlan traffic over the datalink...
Originally Posted by On RecFlying, LoveToFly
AvPlan Live has had a major update – we’re now feeding in live ADSB traffic and glider traffic from a network of ground based ADSB receivers. AvPlan EFB users with AvPlan Live enabled (Settings, AvPlan Live Tracking) will see traffic from these systems as well as other AvPlan EFB equipped aircraft.
Yes...But...That's only if the traffic update rate is fast enough that any latency doesn't produce an additional hazard, by causing you to look for the other aircraft miles behind where it is now based on where the EFB says it is...
But it's funny you bring this up, AvPlan now appears to feed ADS-B traffic as well as AvPlan traffic over the datalink...
But it's funny you bring this up, AvPlan now appears to feed ADS-B traffic as well as AvPlan traffic over the datalink...
All of you you are missing the point here. You are bringing up private sector solutions that should be aids to an overall surveillance system. Smugly, ASA & CASA will stay silent, ohhhh, look, the great unwashed are deflecting our responsibility on to Avplan and Ozrunways. How convenient.
Doesn't matter that Ozrunways won't share data. Avplan are willing to, not a problem. But what does this prove? How fractured, profit driven and beaurecratic aviation 'safety' is in your 'lucky country' (google what 'lucky country' means).
Four dead people........fathers, sons, brothers, sisters, daughters..........and bloody good mates. How many of you have lost a good mate? Do you remember their smile? Do a search on facebook, Ido Segev, look at the smile. The smile says everything.
Stop accepting this half arsed bull**** as an 'accident'
Get off your lazy Australian arses and demand what your tax pays for. Enough of your famous indifference
Doesn't matter that Ozrunways won't share data. Avplan are willing to, not a problem. But what does this prove? How fractured, profit driven and beaurecratic aviation 'safety' is in your 'lucky country' (google what 'lucky country' means).
Four dead people........fathers, sons, brothers, sisters, daughters..........and bloody good mates. How many of you have lost a good mate? Do you remember their smile? Do a search on facebook, Ido Segev, look at the smile. The smile says everything.
Stop accepting this half arsed bull**** as an 'accident'
Get off your lazy Australian arses and demand what your tax pays for. Enough of your famous indifference
Last edited by Hoosten; 26th Feb 2020 at 17:39.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Oz
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hoosten you can't possibly know what to demand without knowing what happened. That's insanity.
Maybe it's the pilots fault. Who knows? Before you demand anything let's find out what happened.
Or is that too reasonable for pprune
Maybe it's the pilots fault. Who knows? Before you demand anything let's find out what happened.
Or is that too reasonable for pprune
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you had even the slightest professional integrity you would remove that comment immediately. It is totally out of line.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why? The usual geniuses have already figured it all out. It must be airservices fault. The fact that they have no control over the airspace classification is irrelevant. You would almost think Australia is the only country that has CTAFs and uncontrolled airspace.
FLARM is encrypted. So much for sharing data. While I like Ozrunways, I don’t like itsy bitsy solutions with iPads, wifi dongles, battery powered GPS, little boxes like flarm and USB cables all over the cockpit. I want it integrated or not at all. As for FLARM, unless there is a mandatory fitment in gliders, what’s the point?
To put that another way, I can see myself ripping the plugs out of sockets and throwing iPad, dual gps, little boxes, etc. in the back of the aircraft where it can’t confuse me or force me to trouble shoot while I’m flying. There is too much to go wrong unless the system is integrated and robust. The rule is AVIATE first and it is too easy to get your head buried in glass instead of looking plus scanning.
Ozrunways is nice, but i’m concerned about betting my life on it. Same with all the add ons - my dual GPS will flatten its battery if you look cross eyed at it.
To put that another way, I can see myself ripping the plugs out of sockets and throwing iPad, dual gps, little boxes, etc. in the back of the aircraft where it can’t confuse me or force me to trouble shoot while I’m flying. There is too much to go wrong unless the system is integrated and robust. The rule is AVIATE first and it is too easy to get your head buried in glass instead of looking plus scanning.
Ozrunways is nice, but i’m concerned about betting my life on it. Same with all the add ons - my dual GPS will flatten its battery if you look cross eyed at it.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Oz
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just out of interest. Everyone here is trying to find a digital solution.
What about listening to the radio or looking out the windscreen? If you communicate well enough is any of this required?
What about listening to the radio or looking out the windscreen? If you communicate well enough is any of this required?
Digital traffic solutions are good.
What needs to be established is how or why despite being passed as traffic to each other two IFR aircraft were able to sadly come to grief.
CTAFs and Class G aren’t new concepts; there will hopefully be some good lessons to learn out of this tragedy.
What needs to be established is how or why despite being passed as traffic to each other two IFR aircraft were able to sadly come to grief.
CTAFs and Class G aren’t new concepts; there will hopefully be some good lessons to learn out of this tragedy.
Hoosten - we have a problem..
‘Stop accepting this half arsed bull**** as an 'accident'’
This was an accident - someone made an error under the current system and rules (could be any of the pilots, could be ATC ) and fluked a disaster that you’d be hard pressed to repeat even if you tried. And yes I know what you’re getting at.
I’m not arguing against changes to the system and strongly agree with much of your post - it should be constantly under review , but it’s not just a click our fingers and it’s all fixed - maybe the powers that be think it’s currently an acceptable level of risk? If this happens to an RPT aircraft... Then we’ll see some changes...
Clearly you were close to someone involved here - take it from someone who has experience in these matters - stay away from this site til your in a better headspace - it will do your head in reading about something you’re too close to and too emotional about.. sorry for your loss.
To the person saying we should all just look out more!! One if not both aircraft were in cloud!!
Wowee...
‘Stop accepting this half arsed bull**** as an 'accident'’
This was an accident - someone made an error under the current system and rules (could be any of the pilots, could be ATC ) and fluked a disaster that you’d be hard pressed to repeat even if you tried. And yes I know what you’re getting at.
I’m not arguing against changes to the system and strongly agree with much of your post - it should be constantly under review , but it’s not just a click our fingers and it’s all fixed - maybe the powers that be think it’s currently an acceptable level of risk? If this happens to an RPT aircraft... Then we’ll see some changes...
Clearly you were close to someone involved here - take it from someone who has experience in these matters - stay away from this site til your in a better headspace - it will do your head in reading about something you’re too close to and too emotional about.. sorry for your loss.
To the person saying we should all just look out more!! One if not both aircraft were in cloud!!
Wowee...
Don't make excuses for a piss-poor airspace system. Four people are dead in an easily avoidable accident. Unfortunately the complexities of airspace design and systems are beyond a simple explanation to a coroner, a politician or anyone else that makes the decisions to properly administer and regulate an airspace system.
Admit it, you are a 3rd rate airspace admin. You are the pig with lipstick, you look shiny and new to anyone with little knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. Too lazy, too ignorant to go out into the big wide world and see how a modern, properly resourced 'not for profit' administration keeps the public safe.
It's all well and good to say it's pretty simple to arrange your own separation on a CTAF frequency in IMC. I have been in that holding pattern with 3 others while one is shooting an approach. Of course if you rip VOR's and NDB's out of the ground, where else are you going to go? The nature of the IFR training done in Australia is that VOR's and NDB's are required by those who pay for it.
But you'll come back with, 'no one wants to pay for it' You're on the Kool-Aid, it's paid for many times over.
There are some fairly straight forward solutions, Class E being one of them. Airservices doesn't want a bar of it, Your CEO can't staff the airspace you've got let alone any new classifications. It all fits in nicely with CASA's in-action on this front.
Agree, 100%
Hoosten you can't possibly know what to demand without knowing what happened. That's insanity.
C'mon everyone, what price are you going to put on these (and future) lives.
I have removed the comment I made about an individual, yes it was immature, but it was also unprofessional. I apologise without reservation and without making any excuses for it.
It must be airservices fault.
The fact that they have no control over the airspace classification is irrelevant.
You would almost think Australia is the only country that has CTAFs and uncontrolled airspace.
Last edited by Hoosten; 26th Feb 2020 at 18:22.
Get off your lazy Australian arses and demand what your tax pays for. Enough of your famous indifference
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PSA Flight 182 ? 1978. 42 years ago......
If you’re in ATC megan, see if you can get on a jumpseat going into LAX. Nothing remotely comparable to Australia with a couple of orders of magnitude greater traffic.
We are cheap and nasty and OZ. Pure and simple.
“Affordable Safety”.........Try the cost of an accident.
If you’re in ATC megan, see if you can get on a jumpseat going into LAX. Nothing remotely comparable to Australia with a couple of orders of magnitude greater traffic.
We are cheap and nasty and OZ. Pure and simple.
“Affordable Safety”.........Try the cost of an accident.