Accident Near Mangalore Airport - Possibly 2 Aircraft down
Gawd, Andrew. This has been done to death many times.
VFR aircraft entering Class E do not have to contact Centre. VFR entering and operating in Class E must be able to communicate on the Class E frequency.
VFR aircraft entering Class E do not have to contact Centre. VFR entering and operating in Class E must be able to communicate on the Class E frequency.
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What is "Continuous 2 way" radio communication? I fly around in Class G listening on Area, but I would not call that 2 way. My understanding of 2 way is that ATC must be able to direct communication to you specifically via your call sign and know you are listening i.e. it requires a check in. That is spelled out explicitly for Class D.
Or are different definitions of 2 way communication used for Class E and Class D, and e.g. IFR in Class G?
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A CTA base 1500FT (or thereabouts) step is common adjacent to most CTRs, to contain aircraft in CTA on descent and climbout.
Its a matter of reading the charts.
Continuous two-way comms for Class E means capable of continuous two-way comms, but don't ask me where the distinction is in AIP.
FWIW almost all aircraft call AVV APP transiting the Class E there, probably not a bad thing due to the amount of PTO and IFR training aircraft.
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I can see the airspace, but I'm not sure what was the effect. Was there something you did or didn't do that was different than what you were supposed to do? Theoretically there should not be much difference for VFR - aside from which frequency you should be listening on. What additional training do you think VFR pilots need?
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VHF radio required for OPS above 5,000FT AMSL and at aerodromes where carriage and use of radio is required
Presumably that also means a radio capable of 2 way comms but the requirement is worded very differently.
If you were accused of entering Class E without contacting ATC and establishing 2 way communications what evidence would you use to argue that it wasn't required?
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I think that there should be a brown line along the 8nm Avalon arc, on the VTC, to emphasise that there is a change to the E airspace. There are green and blue lines for G and C/D, why not brown?
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I see what you mean. I think they have made life difficult for themselves by making an E-G-E sandwich which is difficult to represent on a 2D chart. There is E from 1500/2500-4500, and from FL180-FL245. Whatever boundaries they depict are going to be wrong for one or the other but the lower level is more important. E at FL180 seems to be another example of implementing it where it is no use to anybody.
Re ‘continuous 2-way comms’ for VFR in E, I spend quite a bit of time VFR in E and have yet to be ‘chipped’ by Centre for not establishing comms before entry. However, I’ve ‘piped up’ when contacted or I consider it may help turn me from ‘unverified’ altitude traffic to ‘verified’. But you could give it a go, Andrew, if you are worried you won’t be able to prove you weren’t required to establish two way comms.
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie”
[chirping crickets]
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie?”
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie, what do you want?”
ABC: “To establish two-way communications”.
Centre: “Mission accomplished, Alpha Bravo Charlie”.
Re Avalon, ERSA used to say contact APP (or was it TWR?) before transitting the E VFR, but I guess someone pointed out that it’s either E or it isn’t. (Make up your mind OAR....) The charting of the E boundaries (or more accurately, the gaps in and the missing brown lines) are bound to confuse. Why does Point Cook justify a Romeo?
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie”
[chirping crickets]
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie?”
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie, what do you want?”
ABC: “To establish two-way communications”.
Centre: “Mission accomplished, Alpha Bravo Charlie”.
Re Avalon, ERSA used to say contact APP (or was it TWR?) before transitting the E VFR, but I guess someone pointed out that it’s either E or it isn’t. (Make up your mind OAR....) The charting of the E boundaries (or more accurately, the gaps in and the missing brown lines) are bound to confuse. Why does Point Cook justify a Romeo?
Originally Posted by Mr Approach
Captain Bloggs - You ask "Did the inventors of IFR Pickups actually think sane pilots would just go VFR, look out the front and hope that she'll be right??"
Yes - that is exactly what they do, see this You Tube video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJcEeKzeb5A> The Premier jet departs uncontrolled airport MIles City VFR and at 9000 feet requests an IFR clearance to Vancouver from Salt Lake (ATC) Centre. In the US it is not called an IFR pick up, as I recall Dick Smith invented that term so that Australians might understand the process. To an American pilot it is an activation of his/her filed IFR flight plan and can take place through a Tower in Class C or D airspace,
Yes - that is exactly what they do, see this You Tube video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJcEeKzeb5A> The Premier jet departs uncontrolled airport MIles City VFR and at 9000 feet requests an IFR clearance to Vancouver from Salt Lake (ATC) Centre. In the US it is not called an IFR pick up, as I recall Dick Smith invented that term so that Australians might understand the process. To an American pilot it is an activation of his/her filed IFR flight plan and can take place through a Tower in Class C or D airspace,
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There is of course the airspace label there specifying the LL & UL and the CASA airspace review does mention clarifying the airspace information
https://consultation.casa.gov.au/sta...eview_2019.pdf
If/when it goes from E to D I guess the matter will be sorted anyway.
The restricted areas at PCK activated by NOTAM are there for the RAAF Museum displays.
https://consultation.casa.gov.au/sta...eview_2019.pdf
If/when it goes from E to D I guess the matter will be sorted anyway.
The restricted areas at PCK activated by NOTAM are there for the RAAF Museum displays.
Last edited by buckshot1777; 12th Mar 2020 at 00:09.
Originally Posted by Lead Balon
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie”
[chirping crickets]
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie?”
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie, what do you want?”
ABC: “To establish two-way communications”.
Centre: “Mission accomplished, Alpha Bravo Charlie”.
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie”
[chirping crickets]
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie?”
ABC: “Centre this is Alpha Bravo Charlie”
Centre: “Alpha Bravo Charlie, what do you want?”
ABC: “To establish two-way communications”.
Centre: “Mission accomplished, Alpha Bravo Charlie”.
What about "Centre, Alpha Bravo Charlie, Radio check"
"Loud and Clear"
"ABC".
The restricted areas at PCK activated by NOTAM are there for the RAAF Museum displays.
ERSA says R330A is “TUE,THU,SUN 0315-0345 (1HR EARLIER HDS) or as amended by NOTAM“.
Looks to me like there’s a “default” period which applies unless amended by NOTAM.
(Three half-hour displays each week must be exciting!)
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Is it really “activated” by NOTAM?
ERSA says R330A is “TUE,THU,SUN 0315-0345 (1HR EARLIER HDS) or as amended by NOTAM“.
Looks to me like there’s a “default” period which applies unless amended by NOTAM.
ERSA says R330A is “TUE,THU,SUN 0315-0345 (1HR EARLIER HDS) or as amended by NOTAM“.
Looks to me like there’s a “default” period which applies unless amended by NOTAM.
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That's what I would have said. But then I looked it up in AIP and it didn't say what I expected and now I don't understand. AIP ENR page 1.4-9 says VFR in Class E requires continuous 2 way communication.
What is "Continuous 2 way" radio communication? I fly around in Class G listening on Area, but I would not call that 2 way. My understanding of 2 way is that ATC must be able to direct communication to you specifically via your call sign and know you are listening i.e. it requires a check in. That is spelled out explicitly for Class D.
Or are different definitions of 2 way communication used for Class E and Class D, and e.g. IFR in Class G?
What is "Continuous 2 way" radio communication? I fly around in Class G listening on Area, but I would not call that 2 way. My understanding of 2 way is that ATC must be able to direct communication to you specifically via your call sign and know you are listening i.e. it requires a check in. That is spelled out explicitly for Class D.
Or are different definitions of 2 way communication used for Class E and Class D, and e.g. IFR in Class G?
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I now call up Avalon App with my intentions, if just for good practice.
That may have been back in the day when there was a requirement (or maybe a ‘recommendation’) in ERSA to make contact before entering the Avalon E?
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