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RFDS Pilatus PC24

Old 20th Dec 2018, 23:22
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Towering Q View Post
Bankstown Boy...are you crazy? The de Havilland DH.50?
The Baron 58 would be a much better option.
TQ,
Not really, max one body in a Baron, you could get a couple of stretchers on a DH 50.
As to this thread, is it all about a couple of pilots who want on the PC-24, but want to live (remain living) in Perth??
Tootle pip!!
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 00:30
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
Are you planning to apply for the CEO role? I'm sure you'll teach them a thing or 2 in the interview process.
Too right. He can write the next business case as well.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 08:31
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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4-5 Extra pilots based in Broome for an extra aircraft? - forget medical staff, you fail to win the pilot/jet case yet.

So on your numbers if Broome has 2 x PC12 and 1 x PC24 in Broome then the RFDS need 12- 15 pilots based in Broome.

So we have at any one time 9 - 12 pilots sitting around doing nothing!

The reality is there may be 4 off duty pilots while 3 are flying - that's 7 pilots based in Broome in total.

There is no need to have a pilot based in Broome to cover a pilot on holiday or if a pilot get sick for a number of days - in this case a pilot from Perth is sent to cover for the short term absence. If it is for the case of planned leave then a training pilot can be sent to be well utilised while in Broome.

The roster is set so certain pilots (possible 1 or 2) are on say a 12 hour emergency on call and I see this can even be extended to 24 hrs - there is an extremely low chance of actually being called in but it can cover for occasions that are rare like 2 pilots calling in sick at the same time. The remaining 5 or 6 pilots cover days off and duty.

I doubt there is "fat" in the number of nurses, they work dam hard and certainly do not have HARD duty limits like pilots have enforced by CASA - a nurse can work much more than 2,000 hrs a year.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 09:47
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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After all the patient impact discussion does anyone have the range with a sea level cabin and TAS?
Thanks
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 10:52
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by catseye View Post
After all the patient impact discussion does anyone have the range with a sea level cabin and TAS?
Thanks
No but it would need to be compared to the PC12's same figures of sea level and TAS for the same job.

The reality of sea level flights from my time with the docs was rare - but it did happen a few times.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 23:18
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
No but it would need to be compared to the PC12's same figures of sea level and TAS for the same job.

The reality of sea level flights from my time with the docs was rare - but it did happen a few times.
Wonder if it can do BME PER sea level cabin with 60 mins holding or a decent alternate that can support the patient?
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 23:50
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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On Jan 2017 a second PC12 was announced for Broome.

2016/2017 Review (so after June 2017) "With its 15-strong crew of doctors, nurses and pilots, and new state of-the-art patient treatment centre, the RFDS in Broome has delivered much needed capacity to respond to emergencies throughout the Kimberley and Pilbara."

This crew of 15 staff cover the operation of 2 aircraft and cover for staff days off and sickness reserves we can assume.

So if currently 2 pilots are on active duty and a 3rd is on standby in case one falls ill, with the addition of another aircraft would an extra standby pilot be required on this roster , or just an extra pilot on active duty?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 01:53
  #148 (permalink)  
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My personal belief is that the pilots that live in Broome are expected to find their own accommodation.
All pilots in Broome are supplied with accommodation, subject to the conditions you outlined earlier.

I would imagine the Senior Base Pilot would get a bit upset if he did not get an endorsement and very surprised if all Broome crew were not given ratings
The SBP is not type rated, and there are no plans to do so. The PC12 and PC24 pilots will be two distinct groups, both in Broome and Jandakot.

The reality of sea level flights from my time with the docs was rare - but it did happen a few times.
Maybe things have changed, but I wouldn't call it 'rare'. Any patient with bowel obstruction, open head wound, penetrating eye injuries, respiratory failure or pneumothorax, will require a sea-level cabin. Sometimes even a doctor with a head cold.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 02:15
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Do you know if they are houses puchased by RFDS or are they renting them?

2 distinct groups, well that is a surprise!

That is certainly an expensive option and one that can lead to friction in the ranks very easily.

Things would have changed as it was probably not discussed much back then - the fleet was 3 or 4 C441's and a Mojave with the bulk of fleet un-pressurised PA-31's. Most Jandakot based pilots were rated on all and flew all.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 02:31
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by catseye View Post
Wonder if it can do BME PER sea level cabin with 60 mins holding or a decent alternate that can support the patient?
Cabin Sea Level at aircraft altitude 23,500 ft from https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/fly/pc-24 ( the ambulance doc.)
Someone should be able to tell range.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 02:35
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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I would imagine the Senior Base Pilot would get a bit upset if he did not get an endorsement and very surprised if all Broome crew were not given ratings
Back in your day, Bend alot, "getting an endorsement" wouldn't have been much more than flying a few circuits. "Getting an endorsement" in this aircraft is a much, much bigger exercise. The 2-3 week course in the USA is just a part of it. There is also the issue of pilot suitability. Most of the PC12 pilots would be too inexperienced for the jet, on their first turbine, and without an ATPL licence. It was always going to be a separate group of pilots for the jet, hence my estimate of 4-5 extra pilots for Broome.

An extra 4-5 nurses too? Quite possibly. It depends on how much "excess capacity" is in the current Broome nurse roster. I used the word "fat", the other day, but you took it the wrong way - so now the more politically correct terminology. With no excess capacity, then we must expect 4-5 more nurses. With some excess capacity, then maybe only 3-4 nurses.

Under the current use of the 800 jet, up to 20% flights would be worse off with both jets based in Broome.
Do you have usage information for the Hawker 800? I would like to take a look at it. Please PM to me or give me the links.

TQ, thanks again for the inside information. Would you know what minimum runway width CASA is going to require for this jet's operations? Also, are they going to insist on the 1.67 landing distance factor? Just trying to further my understanding of which strips it will be able to use. Thanks.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 02:36
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by harrryw View Post
Cabin Sea Level at aircraft altitude 23,500 ft from https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/fly/pc-24 ( the ambulance doc.)
Someone should be able to tell range.
Cunderdin would be suitable about 60 miles from Perth, different weather.NameCUNDERDIN, Western AustraliaCountryAustraliaICAO CodeYCUNIATA CodeLocation31°37'20.0"S 117°13'0.0"E Elevation705 ftLongest Runway6040 ftMagnetic Variation-1°TypePublic/civilBeaconNoFuel typesJET 5Landing feeYesOxygenLow Pressure BottleRepairsMajor Engine
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 03:12
  #153 (permalink)  
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Sorry FGD, I’m one of those non-ATPL, first turbine, inexperienced PC12 drivers you mentioned. I don’t know any of those particulars. And if I did, I feel it would be inappropriate to mention it here.

Just trying to further my understanding of which strips it will be able to use
.

FGD....you’re not from the dark side, are you?







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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 04:25
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Bend alot;10341921]

2 distinct groups, well that is a surprise

No surprise to me. I stand corrected but I believe that will be the norm in the other sections as well (those that get the PC24 anyway)
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:17
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
Back in your day, Bend alot, "getting an endorsement" wouldn't have been much more than flying a few circuits. "Getting an endorsement" in this aircraft is a much, much bigger exercise. The 2-3 week course in the USA is just a part of it. There is also the issue of pilot suitability. Most of the PC12 pilots would be too inexperienced for the jet, on their first turbine, and without an ATPL licence. It was always going to be a separate group of pilots for the jet, hence my estimate of 4-5 extra pilots for Broome.

Do you have usage information for the Hawker 800? I would like to take a look at it. Please PM to me or give me the links.
Oh out of the box are we!

I expect that the location of the build would put any training closer to the country of manufacture and not in the USA - but I could be wrong as I have been (and happy to admit it).

First turbine?
Did the RFDS get the piston version of the PC12?
Is a turbo prop not more complex to operate than a jet?

Yep, it was 800ish hours (from memory) and around 80% in the Pilbara/Kimberly area. No good giving you links you have guessed all so far, try research but do not believe all you read.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 05:53
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Range with sea level cabin

Originally Posted by harrryw View Post
Cabin Sea Level at aircraft altitude 23,500 ft from https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/fly/pc-24 ( the ambulance doc.)
Someone should be able to tell range.
Thanks Harry. Hadn't found that page. Wonder if someone has the range and available payload. ??

Last edited by catseye; 23rd Dec 2018 at 06:03.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 06:27
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Oh out of the box are we!

I expect that the location of the build would put any training closer to the country of manufacture and not in the USA - but I could be wrong as I have been (and happy to admit it).

First turbine?
Did the RFDS get the piston version of the PC12?
Is a turbo prop not more complex to operate than a jet?

Yep, it was 800ish hours (from memory) and around 80% in the Pilbara/Kimberly area. No good giving you links you have guessed all so far, try research but do not believe all you read.
I suggest you educate yourself a little. There is a big difference poling around at 18000' vs 45000'. Aerodynamics change, Depressurisation becomes a serious issue. Weather is different. Descent management and flight management are different.
The big step up for some will be doing recurrent check and training in a simulator. That may washout a few of the old guard if they haven't experienced it before.

In the end it shouldn't be that hard of a task the issue will be whether the RFDS are willing to spend the money on the training.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 07:11
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
I suggest you educate yourself a little. There is a big difference poling around at 18000' vs 45000'. Aerodynamics change, Depressurisation becomes a serious issue. Weather is different. Descent management and flight management are different.
The big step up for some will be doing recurrent check and training in a simulator. That may washout a few of the old guard if they haven't experienced it before.

In the end it shouldn't be that hard of a task the issue will be whether the RFDS are willing to spend the money on the training.
Every current pilot with RFDS WA Section was a PC12 pilot.

Last I checked the PC12 had a service ceiling of 30,000 ft, it is pressurised and if depressurised is still a serious issue.

I very much hope aerodynamics do not change at subsonic speeds!

Weather is different - yes wet season flying will help, but between 30,000 to 45,000 feet you will probably not worry as much about ice.

Yes decent and flight management will be different - I think one of the Qantas guys flys the A380 yet has trained guys on Pitts on his days off, then the difference between the 737's to the Max. It is a simple jet mate not the space shuttle.

Is/Will there be a simulator in Australia?

Yes the required "simulator training" grounded the "old guard" at Hardy's for some time a while ago.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 07:29
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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I am disappointed that this thread has degenerated into a dick swinging contest between self appointed sky gods. Why don’t we wait and see how effective this aircraft will be in reality? The RFDS has good people and systems in place for it. I am sure that it will fit in nicely to the network. Give it a chance and keep the pontificating to yourself guys. Mods I think it’s time to lock this one.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 08:59
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zanthrus View Post
I am disappointed that this thread has degenerated into a dick swinging contest between self appointed sky gods. Why don’t we wait and see how effective this aircraft will be in reality? The RFDS has good people and systems in place for it. I am sure that it will fit in nicely to the network. Give it a chance and keep the pontificating to yourself guys. Mods I think it’s time to lock this one.
So this is your opinion that you chose to post.

But then you comment a suggestion/opinion to the Mods - very interesting in then calling people "sky gods".

But I am an engineer so no sky god and will allow Mods to operate I.A.W the forum rules and policy of posts and threads (but that does seem to vary).
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