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Old 18th Jul 2018, 02:31
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Wasn't it just the other day that the Health Minister and others were assuring us that the system was secure, but there might be holes, well it seems that there are weak points; like the people tasked with keeping the system secure.

Let alone all the other people who'll write down the Emergency Override code so that they don't forget it; anecdotally, people still do this with their banking PIN codes, so why will this code be any different.

My question is, "Why is the government doing this now and why is it opt out?", the system has been up and running for a few years now as an "opt in" service. I would assume people with serious medical conditions are already using the system, so why force the all rest of us to now "opt out".

My own very cynical view is that whoever the public (dis)service mandarin is who's in charge of the department happens to be, would like to be more powerful, as there's not that many people using the service now. So, chew the ear of your minister to make everybody join and hence, you'll need more public servants and more managers to control the system and databases, who'll need more staff to do the work and so on; as a consequence the mandarin in charge gets a bigger department with more power and prestige. The whole thing is just the result of some numpty in Can'tberra wanting to increase their department and bugger the privacy of all Australians if he/she can get more pay and power. I did say it was my very cynical view but hey, it's a possible reason and yes, I did like to watch "Yes Minister" when it was on TV.

Last edited by Seaeagle109; 18th Jul 2018 at 11:40.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 02:46
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,600
The agency was unable to provide a definition of "protecting the public revenue" by deadline
in essence thatís collecting of payment of taxes (not fines). So the ATO can call on medical records as well in an investigation ?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 10:33
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canberra
Posts: 129

I haven't been involved in this directly, & not at all for the last 7-8 years. This is an extension of HealthConnect, a 20+ year project, instigated largely by the medical profession (not government agencies).

The aim was to provide significantly better health outcomes for Australians, & has the potential to reduce the health budget at the same time.

The C'Wealth government had carriage because of the complexity of the politics surrounding the sharing of personnel health records across public & private health, commonwealth & state, the many diverse (& competing) areas in the health professions, & "the public".

It was more of a 20 year burden than a grab for funding/resources by C'W Health. I met more than a few prematurely aged public servants attempting to resolve the issues associated with this project.

This was one of the best examples of a 'wicked' problem I ever had the pleasure(!?) of encountering.

My personnel view: an excellent concept that will be almost impossible to implement to the satisfaction of more than about 70%(??) of participants.

If they can sort out the data security, this could one of those unsung systems that ends up saving Australia billions of dollars ...

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:41
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 813
How does this differ from CASA's MRS? CASA already have access to our records, unless there are things your DAME doesn't know about?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:33
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 217
Clare Prop,

Never tell a bureaucrat of any type anything unless there is no other option, and even then don't tell them the truth, the whole truth or nothing but the truth. Big Brother is not your friend. Suggest you read "Nineteen Eighty Four" by George Orwell, and look at the parallels today. SB
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 02:16
  #26 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: And once again, the fun and good times having come to an end for yet another year, back in the cold, cruel real world and continuing the seemingly never ending search for that bad bottle of Red
Age: 65
Posts: 2,567
Seabreeze; An interesting comment! FWIW, I have heard it said by more than a few Medicos over the years that, when it comes to CASA
"....the less they are told, the better!"

Makes one wonder.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:08
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 813
1984 was compulsory reading at my school, I'm just asking what is the difference between this and the existing MRS system.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:24
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 658
I can see the definite benefits of a centralised, online medical records system - and I believe the initial intent was a sensible one.
Having said that, I have today removed and opted out of MyHealthRecord, for the reasons many have given above...
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 08:03
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Queensland
Posts: 60
The idea might be good but the chances of it being hacked are 100% in my opinion.
I received an email from Airservices Australia two days ago stating:
'Airservices Australia takes your privacy very seriously. We regret to inform you about a recent cyber security incident with one of our vendors, PageUp. This company provides us with software services used as part of our online recruitment processes.'.....there is more but that is the essence of it.
I have had communication with them. I also started getting 10-15 spam emails per day about 4 weeks ago, out of the blue, to do with PC Flight Simulators with 'real ATC' among other things. I didn't read them, just the 'headlines'. I am quite computer literate and my PC is as secure as I can get it. I only use Facebook to a minimal extent, no real communication as such and none aviation related, am not a member of any flying related organisations or associations and currently don't fly. Just keep my medical and ASIC current at the moment. So through what I may do on my computer there is very little aviation related stuff.
Aviation ID has also been hacked if I remember recent News correctly.
I also received an email supposedly from a friend who I used to fly with and with whom I communicate regularly. It just said 'Hiya' ....not language he would use, and provided a link to another spam site. The email, although it used his 'callsign' was from the wrong server. It was disguised in gobbledygook though but could be worked out reasonably easily. The site appeared to be based in South America.
Perhaps circumstance? No problem at the moment other than nuisance value. But will I have my details of any kind voluntarily on a large database? No! And that is before you start looking at the idea that government departments and others just might possibly 'legally...cross pollinate' information.

Last edited by bushpig; 19th Jul 2018 at 08:20.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 00:18
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,793
This explains the issues well.

I'm a doctor and I'm out, as is my entire family.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 00:57
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,600
clare prop.....

Here is just one example.

A friendís child had some occasional wheezes. One doc said asthma, subsequent one didnít. It soon cleared in time.
Now I know of a governement department for which employment - even as as a contractor - any history of asthma is a disqualifying condition. What if my friendís child applies for the job.... Employer (who has own medical department including doctors) looks up the record and sees asthma that was misdiagnosed. No job.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 01:15
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 306
I can see advantages in such a system from a health perspective but there are wider issues than that.

It seems from what I hear in the media it is the medical experts, not the IT experts who seem to be selling the security of the system and why people should trust the safeguards. That is not their area of expertise, the IT experts seem to be the ones expressing concerns about this.

I would trust medical experts to advise me about medical issues. Not so much about IT and data security issues so I am not reassured about the security and safeguards of this system.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 02:43
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: skullzone
Posts: 137
It is interesting to note what the Act says.
In the Definitions there is
restore, in relation to a record, means making a record, which has previously been effectively removed, accessible to the healthcare recipient, ...
which means that 'removing' a record really means "keep it forever but hide it from most snoopers".

'Feature-creep' always happens with government projects so I was not surprised to find that they have a 'framework for secondary use' of your data.
Department of Health | Implementing the Framework to guide the secondary use of My Health Record system data
The Framework says
ē MHR system data cannot be used solely for commercial and non-health-related purposes.
ē The provision of MHR data to insurance agencies will not be permitted (the impact of this exclusion will be considered as a part of the first review).
Note the words 'solely' and 'review'.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 12:04
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,600
And in news today in Singapore - their Health department has had 1.5 million personal records, and 160,000 outpatient records hacked
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 12:23
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 392
CC opted OUT today.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 16:09
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,600
It appears that a computer belonging to SingHealth, one of the state's two major government healthcare groups, was infected with malware through which the hackers gained access to the database.
From todayís news. And thatís how it happens folks. They donít go after the computer with the data, they go after the computers with access to the computers with the data.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 00:31
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 260
I'm out and now I'm working on everyone else I know.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 04:08
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: S16 47.2'
Posts: 158
I’ve opted out and opted out for the older family members that don’t exactly understand it. Told them that they can always decide to opt in later should they decide it’s worthwhile.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 06:38
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 445
Iím happy to have my medical status known .
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 08:25
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 2,888
But to whom?
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