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GA SUMMIT 2018 - RESOLUTIONS

Old 20th Jul 2018, 01:03
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
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Gerry 111...if you think Morgans title is 'over the top' read a few of the "titles" some of the CAsA whackos have got. Ben doent even make the cut
If you think Ben Morgan's title is OTT (I don't), I have just seen a RAAus Employee with the title "Innovation and Improvement Executive"
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 03:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
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Yesterday I was given a leaflet with IMPORTANT AIR SAFETY ALERT! on the front.

"The destruction of the general aviation and flight training industry in Australia!" it cried.

Plus some "headlines" designed to whip up some xenophobia about the Yellow Peril of Chinese students.

AOPA logo was on the front, so presumably fully endorsed by all members? Inside was an opinion piece by Dick Smith, amazingly singing the praises of Albanese, the man who, in his years as Minister, happily allowed his tenants, the federal airport leaseholders, to gouge the heart out of the industry and seize assets from the sub-tenants simply because their lease was up for renewal.

Is AOPA aligned with the Labor party in some way?

Last edited by Clare Prop; 21st Jul 2018 at 04:06.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 09:01
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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"SIK'em Clare...

The 'Yellow Peril' of Chinese students is GOOD!
Therein is provided the provision of food and accommodation, fuel, maintenance, for Aussie workers, and flying jobs for the Aussie instructors.....in case you didn't get it.....
And,
How could 'anybody' align themselves with the party so called 'for the workers'...i.e. the labor party....no capital (upper case, in case you didn't get it...)
Albanese is interested ONLY in HIS future..."Whatever It Takes" comes readily to mind....another labor party hack.

NO Cheers....
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 10:45
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
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Clare yep Correct Every single AOPA member checked my speech and agreed with it!

And everyone luvs Albo Don’t you?
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 11:13
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
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I'm fully aware that training Chinese students was great for the GA industry and for towns like Merredin. I found it very strange that this is seen as a bad thing by AOPA. After all, that is how so many Australian pilots were able to get the hours they needed to get into airlines.

Albo was, as I have said many times, the Minister responsible for the airports who turned a blind eye to the way that GA tenants were being gouged and evicted by the Federal airports leaseholders and allowed them to develop master plans that turned "Aviation" areas into "other". Carmen Lawrence and subsequently Melissa Parke also turned a blind eye to what was going on in their Fremantle electorate. The only MPs who stood up for Jandakot tenants were the (both late) Don Randall and Judith Adams at Federal level and Tony Simpson at State level. So I have no faith that any Labor politician is going to suddenly change their mind and see GA in terms of anything other than noise.

I would have thought AOPA would be non-partisan and certainly not xenophobic.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 16:51
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
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Clare I would never defend Albo. His record as Transport Minister is apalling. His response at Wagga to airport privatisation was "That's Capitalism".

Foreign owned flying schools on the other hand might offer some incidental benefits such as hours for young people passing through but at the end of the day the investment (financial and emotional) is owed to the home country not Australia. Dick's jam has always been about Australian ownership of businesses based in Australia because that means finances and taxes and emotions all invested in Australia. At the end of the day an Australian owned and based company is more likely to take a broad view of the impact of its decisions. A foreign corporation is more likely to cut and run.

You and I have both invested ourselves into our businesses. Although you might disagree with the Yellow Peril pamphlet (I've not read it in my 8 weeks as a Director) it would be great to have you on board and using your professional expertise and experience to help us attack the common enemy.
Better that we all point our weapons toward the enemy rather than at our own side eh?
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 17:46
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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As I recall there was considerable investment made in CSWAFC, (not a Chinese company) by the State government and there was an even more considerable return to the State government. I don't have time to go through Hansard but it would be more accurate than the hyperbole in the press. Meanwhile there was this thread.

Outrage at China-controlled Aussie airport

Horatio, with some of the agendas being promoted by AOPA it seems people like myself are the enemy who should lose our lifetime's investment. My input here has only been shot down in flames. I'm not interested in being a part of that organisation, never have been.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2018, 04:58
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I'm not interested in being a part of that organisation, never have been.
I know what you mean but I don't see anyone else looking after GA *at all*.

it seems people like myself are the enemy who should lose our lifetime's investment.
I am not sure what you are referring to but keen to discuss it with you. Will PM you.
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 10:02
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Clare Prop:

I wonder if the same fuss would be made if the companies involved in flight training their pilots here were Canadian or U.S. instead of Chinese ....
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 06:53
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Clare Prop,
I really don't know what you are on about re. AOPA.

When CSWAFC first ran into a brick wall with CASA, the organisation and the CEO, Barney Fernandez, had strong AOPA support, and indeed, at the time, an AOPA Vice President was appointed to the board of CSWAFC to assist with the defense of the company.

Barney was, as I recall, a life member of AOPA, and he had a top GAPAN award, as well.

The CASA pressure was so unrelenting and unreasonable that China Southern cancelled their major investment program in Australia, and moved their major school to Canada. A US$750M planned investment was lost to Australia.

CASA also caused Australian and the Australian Dept. of Foreign Affairs in Beijing, and CAAC very major embarrassment, a diplomatic incident, as a Vice Minister was on the CSWAFC board.

Interestingly, CASA never took any of the "charges" to court, they were all dropped (NOT a settlement, dropped) several days before the statute of limitations applied.

Let's keep the facts straight!!

Tootle pip!!

PS: In recent years China Southern Airlines has had minimal if any investment in CSWAFC, and only a smattering of training in Australia, because of the treatment by CASA years ago, it has a very dim view oi training in Australia, with preferences for Canada and the US.
LeadSled is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:31
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
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There has been a lot of water under the bridge since BF's time!

I'm talking about a recently released leaflet which backs up media quotes and vision where Chinese students being trained in Australia is seen as a bad thing. The person who made these quotes has used AOPA's logo on this leaflet.

AFAIK CSWAFC is a joint Chinese/Canadian venture.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2018, 14:52
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Re "My input here has only been shot down in flames."

Nah Clare.... I (For One) was /is / am/ fully supportive of your statement.!


I share your point of view. Chin up.
Cheers
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 04:03
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post

AFAIK CSWAFC is a joint Chinese/Canadian venture.
Which is not inconsistent with what I have said, all China Southern do in Australia is remnant stuff, with the current majority shareholder in CSWAFC.
Given the history, I think you can lay London to a brick that China Southern will NOT be making any major investments in pilot training in Australia.
What has happened in the last two or so years in WA will only reinforce China Southern's views about anything where CASA is involved.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 06:40
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I think you'll find there is a bit more to it than CASA. Such as events that happened in Canada that prompted change in policy here.

Thanks Griffo, I should qualify the statement...my input has been shot down in flames by the AOPA/Smith acolytes!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 08:45
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Richmond NSW
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In the booklet that Clare Prop mentioned at post #42, Dick stated on page 17: "Sir Henry Parkes gave the Tenterfield Oration in 1889, which was the trigger for our Federation. Well, this is the 'Dick Smith Wagga Oration' which I hope will trigger the revitalisation of general aviation in Australia."

I reckon Dick's oration doesn't come close to the significance of Ned Kelly's 1879 Jerilderie Letter, let alone Henry Parkes' Oration. And Ned was illiterate..

I wonder what AOPA was thinking when such a xenophobic cover was published. Not smart in my view!
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 09:34
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Clare Prop,
So, tell us what you think has happened in Canada to China Southern, that would interest it in taking on CASA again??

Last time I spoke to the chap who oversees all the CS training outside China, worldwide, he was to say the least, adamant. That was about three years ago, at a conference in China.

Given the enlightened approach of Transport Canada, and the very foreign student friendly Canadian Government, I am having trouble imagining what would have been so dire that Australia would have been re-considered for a major training investment.

What I have seen from sections of CASA, and continue to see, is a xenophobic mindset against all foreign cadet pilots, civil and military, an attitude often exhibited by others in the aviation community.

As a matter of interest, in its heyday, China Southern owned 75% of CSWAFC, later moving to 100%. As I understand the present "joint venture", it isn't really, just a minor part of joint CAE/ CS developments. As far as I know, there was no WA Government direct investment, but they did have a major state development program for the aviation sector, and a very enlightened program it was.

Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:31
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
What I have seen from sections of CASA, and continue to see, is a xenophobic mindset against all foreign cadet pilots, civil and military, an attitude often exhibited by others in the aviation community.
Is this what you are referring to?:
I wonder what AOPA was thinking when such a xenophobic cover was published. Not smart in my view!

I'm talking about a recently released leaflet which backs up media quotes and vision where Chinese students being trained in Australia is seen as a bad thing. The person who made these quotes has used AOPA's logo on this leaflet.
It would be useful if AOPA did not endorse the publication, that it would publicly disown it.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 02:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
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I agree - AOPA should definitely disown my publication. What could be more politically incorrect that pasting a few existing newspaper headlines onto the cover of a booklet? All those xenophobic, racist, newspaper headlines should have been banned.

Forget free speech that our forefathers fought for. It is incredible to see that PPRuNe posters also believe in this ridiculous political correctness. Here is another look at the cover.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 02:59
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Dick,
Spot on, but PPRuNe is not short of ardent CASA supporters ----- who simply do not want to know about the immense damage CASA (and its predecessors) have done, and continue to do, to aviation in Australia, or what is left of it.
And as I have said, often enough, it is not just GA, there is a reason that Qantas has just built the biggest hangar on Los Angeles International, KLAX, and it is not just so they can park aircraft in the shade, out of the SoCal sunshine.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 03:32
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 796
Yes Dick, there is free speech, though it is not enshrined in our constitution. You are free to publish and distribute your opinion, organisations are free to endorse it and others are free to comment on it.

PPRuNe is not an echo chamber. If you don't want to be challenged and only want confirmation bias then this probably isn't the site for you.

Not agreeing with your opinion doesn't make someone PC or a CASA supporter. There are many other challenges GA business owners have to face, as you would know if you have been doing it as long as I have. At the moment it's the weather, can AOPA fix that?
Clare Prop is offline  

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