A Little Gem from CASA Experts
BTW LB APS offer online courses so would you be willing to pay for andrewr to sign up for that?
Andrew won’t be satisfied - and I won’t be getting value for money - unless Andrew has the opportunity to ask questions of, and point out all the flaws in the data presented by, the presenters. It may be that he is successfull, in which case I will have learned something new and important.
So information presented online isn't as valid as that presented in a seminar format? Online content from universities and Ted talks (and APS)are a complete waste of time?
So what would andrewr not understand about what you are talking about from the online content?
The internet version of "Engine Management Made Easy" is a detailed, multi-media, online course reflecting nearly all of the aspects of the live class. It is designed for all levels of pilot experience, from the private pilot to the ATP and covers basic piston engine theory from the basics through advanced concepts. You will see all of the same material as seen in the live class including the engine runs on the Carl Goulet Memorial Engine Test Facility at GAMI and the in-flight videos shown in class. The APS class has always been a firehose of information over 2 1/2 intense days in the classroom. One advantage to the online course is that you may proceed at your own pace. For a more detailed overview of the material, see the description of the curriculum to the live class.
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I think you're mistaken there. I haven't been to an APS seminar, but I have read a quite a bit of Deakin's articles and as I recall, the advice was generally don't attempt LOP operations with an uninstrumented carburated engine. I don't know if that's still what they are recommending.
I am asking a question!
You and he seem to take the view that too many others in aviation do: It’s up to someone else to spend their time and money to cure you of your ignorance.
Andrew take the course and ask lots of questions - it will certainly be of great benefit for you.
It is also admirable of the other member to pay the course cost.
But it is not the be all and end all of engine operation, but certainly a tool you can use.
It is also admirable of the other member to pay the course cost.
But it is not the be all and end all of engine operation, but certainly a tool you can use.
And Aussie Bob talked about arrogance! If you think that what you have put on this thread is equivalent to online content then you are more arrogant than even AB can imagine!
You were the one that made the grand and magnanimous offer of paying for andrewr to attend an APS seminar when it was presented in Australia. According to their website they have no seminars on offer in the States or here. They will however take your money and put your name on a list to assess if there is sufficient interest! Their website is offering an online equivalent yet you are now saying that it wouldn't satisfy andrewr ( have you asked him?) and its content is on Pprune. The more I see posted on this thread the more I agree with those who suggest that APS is equivalent to a cult.
You and he seem to take the view that too many others in aviation do: It’s up to someone else to spend their time and money to cure you of your ignorance.
You were the one that made the grand and magnanimous offer of paying for andrewr to attend an APS seminar when it was presented in Australia. According to their website they have no seminars on offer in the States or here. They will however take your money and put your name on a list to assess if there is sufficient interest! Their website is offering an online equivalent yet you are now saying that it wouldn't satisfy andrewr ( have you asked him?) and its content is on Pprune. The more I see posted on this thread the more I agree with those who suggest that APS is equivalent to a cult.
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Setting the mixture to around 25C ROP is the worst setting for a piston aero-engine whatever the power setting. It will produce the highest CHT possible for that power.
Given the choice of a 74% power setting with a CHT of X and a 74% power setting with CHT less than X, I choose the latter.
Detonation is not the only thing that is detrimental to engine longevity. So is heat. The manufacturers say so.
Given the choice of a 74% power setting with a CHT of X and a 74% power setting with CHT less than X, I choose the latter.
Detonation is not the only thing that is detrimental to engine longevity. So is heat. The manufacturers say so.
Eddie
You will almost certainly be surprised to learn that it wasn’t to make the engines more reliable.
Which of these IO520s at sea level on an ISA day, RPM set to 2,700, mixture set to full rich and throttle set to maximum will deliver more power:
1. The one with magneto to engine advance set to 20 degrees.
2. The one with magneto to engine advance set to 22 degrees.
You will almost certainly be surprised to learn that it wasn’t to make the engines more reliable.
Which of these IO520s at sea level on an ISA day, RPM set to 2,700, mixture set to full rich and throttle set to maximum will deliver more power:
1. The one with magneto to engine advance set to 20 degrees.
2. The one with magneto to engine advance set to 22 degrees.
And Aussie Bob talked about arrogance! If you think that what you have put on this thread is equivalent to online content then you are more arrogant than even AB can imagine!
Your new found prejudice means you haven’t been keeping up with the very, very long and multiple threads on this subject, in which andrewr has been an active contributor.
And we all know why that is, don’t we. 
I told you how I knew the magneto to engine advance: The Timing Fairy told me. This is your cue to say the problem never happened.
And are you sure about your 20 degree +/- 1 BTC magneto to engine figure for all IO520s? Really sure?
I told you how I knew the magneto to engine advance: The Timing Fairy told me.
This is your cue to say the problem never happened. And are you sure about your 20 degree +/- 1 BTC magneto to engine figure for all IO520s? Really sure?
"Sure" and "Really sure"
Do I need to bold it?
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Lead Balloon, you say previously that your LOP operation is backed up with science, and a test cell. In the chart I provided, at any mixture setting richer than peak EGT, the CHT reduces. Correct, or not.
Sorry take it back it is 22 degrees on the 520 - as said not current
http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/msb94-8d.pdf
http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/msb94-8d.pdf
Your new found prejudice means you haven’t been keeping up with the very, very long and multiple threads on this subject, in which andrewr has been an active contributor.
tsi540: Not correct.
If you enrich the mixture from peak EGT, the CHT will increase - repeat increase - until the mixture is about 25C rich of peak. After that, enriching the mixture will result in a decrease in CHT.
I don’t know what picture you’re trying to post, but if it has CHT and EGT curves that peak at the same point (e.g. like those in the EDM manuals) they are bull****. All you need to do is plot EGT against CHT in a real aircraft in the real world on a real flight. (I’m always struck by the irony of my love and dependence of the EDM in my aircraft but contempt for some of the OWT in the EDM manuals, which OWTs have been proved as OWTs as a consequence of measurements on the EDM...)
If you enrich the mixture from peak EGT, the CHT will increase - repeat increase - until the mixture is about 25C rich of peak. After that, enriching the mixture will result in a decrease in CHT.
I don’t know what picture you’re trying to post, but if it has CHT and EGT curves that peak at the same point (e.g. like those in the EDM manuals) they are bull****. All you need to do is plot EGT against CHT in a real aircraft in the real world on a real flight. (I’m always struck by the irony of my love and dependence of the EDM in my aircraft but contempt for some of the OWT in the EDM manuals, which OWTs have been proved as OWTs as a consequence of measurements on the EDM...)
I don't imagine that the multiple threads are very different to this one, this is already up to page 8. andrewr is also not the only APS sceptic, of note the other sceptics seem to be engineers who have probably had a lot more experience dealing with engines than you have.
“Probably” have more experience? You do a lot of speculation, Lookleft.
Let’s make it easy:
I have no clue what I’m talking about and nobody should take seriously anything I say.
Just quote the above in any thread in which I post and you can relax and get on with whatever it is that you do.