The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Mallard Down in Perth

Old 20th Nov 2019, 05:53
  #361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 3,805
The PTT is on the Control Yoke.
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:11
  #362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Nairobbery
Posts: 37
Why was the aircraft issued with a special CofA as "Experimental"?
Grizzly Bare is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2019, 19:37
  #363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 293
21.191 Experimental certificates

An experimental certificate may be issued for one or more of the following purposes:
(d) exhibition: for example exhibiting the aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, motion picture, television, and similar productions, and the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency, including (for persons exhibiting aircraft) flying to and from such air shows and productions;
Vag277 is online now  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 00:58
  #364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Nairobbery
Posts: 37
Yes, of course it's legal to be experimental.
My question is why the aircraft was CHOSEN to be experimental?
Why was the aircraft chosen to be issued with an experimental CofA rather than a standard CofA? What advantage was the operator gaining by choosing to be experimental? Was there any difference in the maintenance actions undertaken as experimental that may have had a bearing on the crash?
Grizzly Bare is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 01:04
  #365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Victoria
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Sandy Reith View Post
In 2017 a few General Aviation types (and maybe others) including myself went to a conference at the Avalon Airshow to hear from Mr. Carmody head of CASA, Jason Harfield of Airservices and Greg Hood who is the head of ATSB. When Greg’s turn came to address us attendees he sported a hi-vis ATSB jacket and ran a video of the Mallard’s fatal last seconds as it plunged into the water. This video was on a loop and cycled there for us to see throughout the whole of Greg’s speech. Over and over again, surreal? Certainly bizarre say no more.
Pretty sure the slideshow showed lots of accidents, not just that one. I was at the presentation by Mr Carmody and Mr Hood at Avalon that year. I requested, and received, a copy of it to play to our local club.
Egipps is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2019, 03:42
  #366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 168
Reply to Egipps. The excessive fear factor, hallmark of General Aviation in Australia

Originally Posted by Egipps View Post
Pretty sure the slideshow showed lots of accidents, not just that one. I was at the presentation by Mr Carmody and Mr Hood at Avalon that year. I requested, and received, a copy of it to play to our local club.
As my father said “everything in moderation” and this simple idea should be followed in regard to inducing fear of flight by an excessive and unhealthy visualisation of accidents and the CASA policy of the slightest infringement of their thousands of ‘rules’ as being criminal offences.

In my 50 plus years in General Aviation as CFI and CP and as aircraft and airport owner operator it has become so obvious that the extraordinary emphasis on the nebulous concept of safety as being some sort of holy grail in itself has, at least in part, displaced the healthy enjoyment of flying and the satisfaction of honing one’s flying skills.
I’ve seen time and again the poor results in GA flying from this wrong psychological environment where the fear factor dominates and reserves of adrenaline have been lost before the flight. This then results in a tired and narrow mental focus to the numerous dynamic factors that might be in play, with inherent dangers, that then might overwhelm an overly stressed pilot.
In addition, the enormous additional expenses mandated by CASA onto a struggling GA industry, beset with the outcome of our poor dollar value, has meant that fewer hours flown by individuals means they are less current and less likely to maintain a good level of basic flying skills.
The whole regulatory and public administration of aviation in Australia is a huge disaster, we’ve lost hundreds of flying schools, and has cost thousands of jobs. This National scandal is driving our airlines to recruit pilots and engineers from overseas. Ring write contact your local MP and State Senators for change because the experimental governance of aviation (31 years) by an independent Commonwealth corporate body is an abject failure.
Sandy Reith is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 07:40
  #367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: International
Age: 74
Posts: 1,370
Well said. Unfortunately you are swimming against the current trying to get the message to any politician.
B772 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 09:27
  #368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,918
Originally Posted by Sandy Reith View Post
...Ring write contact your local MP and State Senators for change because the experimental governance of aviation (31 years) by an independent Commonwealth corporate body is an abject failure.
You might get the message to some of them, but most of them wouldn't know what to do about it, Sandy.

Have a look at the whole page ad at page 7 of today's (Friday 22 November's) The Australian. The people who spent a sh*tload of money to pay for that ad have addressed it directly to only 3 politicians for a reason: that's how you get the attention of all of them.

No criticism of you, Sandy, but I'll bet folding money that you've spent most of your life voting for one or other of the major parties. (Happy to hand over the folding to you, but the point remains the same The comfy duopoly, and those who credulously perpetuate it by voting for them, are the primary problem.

The comfy duopoly means that a substantial number of politicians are now professional politicians with little-to-no experience doing anything productive, advised mostly by aspiring professional politicians and narrow interest group representatives, whose 'long game' - to the extent they have one - is self-preservation.

What do you think a bunch of concerned politicians would do? Shut CASA down? Then what? Australia still has to maintain the facade of compliance with the Chicago Convention (subject to voluminous notified differences of course). Set up a Department of Civil Aviation? Where to get the people to fill that department? Probably the same place from which they got the people to fill CASA after the CAA was shut down. And from where did they get people to fill the CAA, after the Department of Civil Aviation was shut down? The Department of Civil Aviation.

What politician would know what should replace CASA or how to build the replacement? They just turn to their advisers, who just turn to .... a hollowed out Department and CASA.

The minister responsible for the regulation of aviation and his advisers have an average 'shelf-life' of a couple of years. The shelf-life of those who run CASA? Decades. No contest.

Last edited by Lead Balloon; 22nd Nov 2019 at 19:56. Reason: Corrected date of newspaper and spello
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 13:38
  #369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Around
Posts: 54
“CASA staff were present for the briefing conducted the night before the activity, in which the conduct of orbits was described.”

Report says CASA said they were unaware of intention to conduct orbits. What were the reps at the briefing being paid for?
Hamley is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 23:55
  #370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 168
A fair question

Quote Hamley “CASA staff were present for the briefing conducted the night before the activity, in which the conduct of orbits was described.”

Report says CASA said they were unaware of intention to conduct orbits. What were the reps at the briefing being paid for?”

Could be a pivotal point, perhaps overlooked, and, as reported, that passengers were not supposed to be carried on airshow demonstration flights.
There can be a perfectly human nature factor of excitement in the unusual circumstances of an airshow where there’s a large audience. Hstory shows clearly that this factor coupled with unplanned manoeuvres can cause accidents. The Mustang loss years ago at an airshow at Mangalore for example, or a similar stall at Berwick (Vic) which claimed two lives for another example.
As for CASA’s involvement they could be a reserve of helpful advice and reminders of aspects to be guarded against. Unfortunately the wrong model of governance set up of CASA and the resultant distrust from years of mismanagement of the regulatory and administrative environment all conspire to thwart a reasonable and rational dialogue between government and the aviation industry.

in regard to Lead Ballon’s pessimism, which is most understandable, the governments we get are those that we vote for and much maligned politicians are ordinary Australians. The National sport of denigrating our representatives is just counterproductive, if as much effort went towards continually engaging with them we could be in a better position. Many have put to me the hopelessness of trying to influence our MPs, but we now have a number who are beginning to get the message as never before. Senators Susan McDonald and Rex Patrick are leaders in this and there are others. We should support them, ring write contact your local MP and State Senators with that message.
Sandy Reith is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 01:39
  #371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,918
Senators Susan McDonald and Rex Patrick are leaders in this and there are others. We should support them, ring write contact your local MP and State Senators with that message.
Indeed. Senator Susan McDonald even crossed the floor to support Senator Patrick's motion to disallow the CASA community service kneejerk.

But they lost.

Most of the Laborials voted against the motion, with their spokespersons expressing bipartisan trust in CASA.

And Senator McDonald may find herself being disendorsed if she makes a habit of crossing the floor (the Liberal policy of purportedly tolerating such behaviour, notwithstanding). The Laborials are about maintaining the comfy duopoly - sorry, I meant 'safety' - and that requires unity.

The only glimmer of hope is in voting the Laborials out. Even then, the people who replace them won't get anywhere unless they have an executable plan to dismember the regulatory Frankenstein and create something that isn't left to merely develop into yet another Frankenstein.
Lead Balloon is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.