Regional Airport Terminal Access
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Regional Airport Terminal Access
G'day All,
I am interested in other pilots thoughts on the subject of terminal access at country airports.
It appears in recent years there has been some significant federal, state and local government money spent on regional airport terminal upgrades. Money that you and I have obviously given to the government in the form of taxes, rates etc.
Yet many of these terminals remain closed and locked except for a few brief periods when a RPT flight graces the airport. To my thinking this is a regressive trend and clearly detracts from promoting GA as a smart, viable and safe means of travel throughout this vast country.
Country airports are there for use by all aviators and their passengers not just RPT ops.
Ceduna in SA is a stand out example, for many flyers its location is an almost essential landing point prior to or following a Nullabor crossing. It has a small but new terminal with clean toilets and a great little coffee machine yet it is inaccessible, the only alternative toilet is one single ramshackle dunny built from second hand colour bond tacked on the back of the terminal.
Port Augusta the same, Coober Pedy a little better but not by much.
What is going on, how have we allowed this to happen? I am moving to a mind set that will have me responding to their landing fee invoices with a polite "thanks for your invoice but I could not access your facilities"
How do we turn this around?
I am interested in other pilots thoughts on the subject of terminal access at country airports.
It appears in recent years there has been some significant federal, state and local government money spent on regional airport terminal upgrades. Money that you and I have obviously given to the government in the form of taxes, rates etc.
Yet many of these terminals remain closed and locked except for a few brief periods when a RPT flight graces the airport. To my thinking this is a regressive trend and clearly detracts from promoting GA as a smart, viable and safe means of travel throughout this vast country.
Country airports are there for use by all aviators and their passengers not just RPT ops.
Ceduna in SA is a stand out example, for many flyers its location is an almost essential landing point prior to or following a Nullabor crossing. It has a small but new terminal with clean toilets and a great little coffee machine yet it is inaccessible, the only alternative toilet is one single ramshackle dunny built from second hand colour bond tacked on the back of the terminal.
Port Augusta the same, Coober Pedy a little better but not by much.
What is going on, how have we allowed this to happen? I am moving to a mind set that will have me responding to their landing fee invoices with a polite "thanks for your invoice but I could not access your facilities"
How do we turn this around?
It appears in recent years there has been some significant federal, state and local government money spent on regional airport terminal upgrades. Money that you and I have obviously given to the government in the form of taxes, rates etc.
Yet many of these terminals remain closed and locked except for a few brief periods when a RPT flight graces the airport. To my thinking this is a regressive trend and clearly detracts from promoting GA as a smart, viable and safe means of travel throughout this vast country.
Country airports are there for use by all aviators and their passengers not just RPT ops.
I am moving to a mind set that will have me responding to their landing fee invoices with a polite "thanks for your invoice but I could not access your facilities"
Country airports are there for use by all aviators and their passengers not just RPT ops.
I know when I was involved with a regional airport, the Terminal facilities was locked up between RPT flights, but we did provide a pretty good ablution block for the use of itinerants, however, this was constantly getting trashed and costing a fortune in maintenance, so we removed it.
Terminals? meh - Least of your worries.
Look at Mackay - Just closed its cross runway forever.
Rocky appears to be in the process of something similar. Shortening perhaps.
Look at Mackay - Just closed its cross runway forever.
Rocky appears to be in the process of something similar. Shortening perhaps.
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Young Mic, it’s all about perceptions.
General aviation is perceived by the uninformed somewhat like those unkempt, unwashed individuals you see from time to time parked on the pavement outside a store on Main Street. They may have an old supermarket trolley parked next to them full of god knows what, or a decrepit little dog leashed with a piece of string, generally with a sign written on a piece of cardboard placed next to a hat on the ground in front of them.
Bureaucrats view GA much like those poor pathetic individuals, they are there, but you would really prefer them to just go away, and you definitely should remain upwind of them.
Governments and councils have to spend our money on something.
For Councils building new airport terminal buildings is a great way of dispersing money. They can claim it creates local employment, civic pride (our terminal is better than theirs) and creates an opportunity to invite pollies to official openings with a plaque on the wall with all their names on it.
Maybe they also harboured a vainglorious notion that a shiny new terminal might attract an airline to start an air service again, faint hope.
Back in the seventies, before aviation was regulated out of business most little country towns had an air service of some sort, where did all those forty years old navajo's still flying start their life?
Country folk are by and large practical intelligent people, they fully understood that their commuter airline was perhaps not as safe as Quaintasses shiny jets, but there was a need, and the small operator filled that need, provided a service, and their customers accepted the risks because country folk live with risk every day, they understood that their air service was far less chancy than their car and astute to the principle that time is money.
Bureaucrats unfortunately have no concept of time and money or service and need. The cost of a new terminal building is small change compared with the regulatory burden imposed by over regulation, servicing the need of the "mystic" of safety, an esoteric principle devoid of practicality promoted by the self-interest of an unaccountable few, to the detriment of a whole industry and by extension, the whole of society.
Why it that Australia endowed with innovative, inventive highly industrious individuals has very little in the way of aeronautical enterprises?
I think of Canada, Ireland, Brazil, all with massive aviation industries, even New Zealand powers ahead of Australia.
Our prime minister calls for us to use our innovative and entrepreneurial skills on one hand yet chooses to ignore the fact that his bureaucrats are busily building road blocks in the background stifling any chance that anything innovative would see the light of day.
Aviation was the test bed for OH&S excesses.
Bright young things with shiny new degrees dispersing from our universities across the country with their really really cool esoteric ideals creating havoc within what’s left of our industries, OH&S has become one of our nation’s biggest growth industries and we are all poorer for it.
But I digress, I apologise to all, its just that at times I allow my passion run away, that and why in god’s name is the country squandering our money on what to me defies logic, hundreds of millions of dollars on regulation that serves no purpose and shackles an industry, when regulations that do serve a purpose and achieve what they are intended for are available at a fraction of the cost.
But it was all about terminals wasn’t it.
Young mic, a few years ago I recall, when that other great money wasting institution called DOTARS was on the rise, another bright young thing with letters after their name dreamed up a really really cool money making enterprise called the ASIC card.
Someone with a lateral thinking practical bent suggested that to make it actually useful for something, a chip could be incorporated into the card. Terminals and access gates could then be fitted with swipe card readers to open them, the user recorded not just for security reasons but enabling terminal fees to be easily accredited to those that wanted to avail themselves of the service.
Unfortunately practicality was deemed impractical so GA is unfortunately reduced to that always embarrassing event, on occasion having to drag a ladder from the luggage locker so your plane load of millionaire tourists can clamber over the fence, standing guard while the ladies relieve themselves behind the tank stand beside the terminal.
As they say, Australia, the only third world country where you can drink the water.
General aviation is perceived by the uninformed somewhat like those unkempt, unwashed individuals you see from time to time parked on the pavement outside a store on Main Street. They may have an old supermarket trolley parked next to them full of god knows what, or a decrepit little dog leashed with a piece of string, generally with a sign written on a piece of cardboard placed next to a hat on the ground in front of them.
Bureaucrats view GA much like those poor pathetic individuals, they are there, but you would really prefer them to just go away, and you definitely should remain upwind of them.
Governments and councils have to spend our money on something.
For Councils building new airport terminal buildings is a great way of dispersing money. They can claim it creates local employment, civic pride (our terminal is better than theirs) and creates an opportunity to invite pollies to official openings with a plaque on the wall with all their names on it.
Maybe they also harboured a vainglorious notion that a shiny new terminal might attract an airline to start an air service again, faint hope.
Back in the seventies, before aviation was regulated out of business most little country towns had an air service of some sort, where did all those forty years old navajo's still flying start their life?
Country folk are by and large practical intelligent people, they fully understood that their commuter airline was perhaps not as safe as Quaintasses shiny jets, but there was a need, and the small operator filled that need, provided a service, and their customers accepted the risks because country folk live with risk every day, they understood that their air service was far less chancy than their car and astute to the principle that time is money.
Bureaucrats unfortunately have no concept of time and money or service and need. The cost of a new terminal building is small change compared with the regulatory burden imposed by over regulation, servicing the need of the "mystic" of safety, an esoteric principle devoid of practicality promoted by the self-interest of an unaccountable few, to the detriment of a whole industry and by extension, the whole of society.
Why it that Australia endowed with innovative, inventive highly industrious individuals has very little in the way of aeronautical enterprises?
I think of Canada, Ireland, Brazil, all with massive aviation industries, even New Zealand powers ahead of Australia.
Our prime minister calls for us to use our innovative and entrepreneurial skills on one hand yet chooses to ignore the fact that his bureaucrats are busily building road blocks in the background stifling any chance that anything innovative would see the light of day.
Aviation was the test bed for OH&S excesses.
Bright young things with shiny new degrees dispersing from our universities across the country with their really really cool esoteric ideals creating havoc within what’s left of our industries, OH&S has become one of our nation’s biggest growth industries and we are all poorer for it.
But I digress, I apologise to all, its just that at times I allow my passion run away, that and why in god’s name is the country squandering our money on what to me defies logic, hundreds of millions of dollars on regulation that serves no purpose and shackles an industry, when regulations that do serve a purpose and achieve what they are intended for are available at a fraction of the cost.
But it was all about terminals wasn’t it.
Young mic, a few years ago I recall, when that other great money wasting institution called DOTARS was on the rise, another bright young thing with letters after their name dreamed up a really really cool money making enterprise called the ASIC card.
Someone with a lateral thinking practical bent suggested that to make it actually useful for something, a chip could be incorporated into the card. Terminals and access gates could then be fitted with swipe card readers to open them, the user recorded not just for security reasons but enabling terminal fees to be easily accredited to those that wanted to avail themselves of the service.
Unfortunately practicality was deemed impractical so GA is unfortunately reduced to that always embarrassing event, on occasion having to drag a ladder from the luggage locker so your plane load of millionaire tourists can clamber over the fence, standing guard while the ladies relieve themselves behind the tank stand beside the terminal.
As they say, Australia, the only third world country where you can drink the water.
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rmcdonal,
I would be keen to see any supporting evidence of this, at face value I would disagree. Many country terminals simply install a key code door access and this seems to work just fine, Renmark and Port Pirie to name just two, both have great amenities, both remote, both with snacks and nibbles with a honour tin for payment. They have both been doing it this way for an age so clearly your assumption has yet to deter them.
The whole point of this thread is that you cannot, your statement makes zero sense, sorry.
So you are saying the local shire takes money from landing fees and only allocates that to airside infrastructure, my landing fee does not go into a pot called general revenue from which money is then extracted for shire staff wages etc.. The same shire staff who attend to terminal upkeep.
You sure about that?
Thorn Bird
I think you just nailed it right there.
The upside though is many are now seeing this and trying to redress it. The alternative to reform is becoming a clear and stark outlook.
Possibly because folk like rmcdonal walk amongst us and vote?? (Sorry RM but your "you can use the airport like the airlines" earned you that)
Swiftski
I stand corrected, I'll be there soon enough and give it another try.
As you said previously the government invested money in this infrastructure, to leave it unmanned is a sure way to have it vandalized, particularly considering the remote location of most regional airports.
True, and you can use the airport just the same as every other aircraft and airline.
You pay for the upkeep of the runways and taxiways, not on access to the other facilities.
You sure about that?
Thorn Bird
Our prime minister calls for us to use our innovative and entrepreneurial skills on one hand yet chooses to ignore the fact that his bureaucrats are busily building road blocks in the background stifling any chance that anything innovative would see the light of day.
The upside though is many are now seeing this and trying to redress it. The alternative to reform is becoming a clear and stark outlook.
Why it that Australia endowed with innovative, inventive highly industrious individuals has very little in the way of aeronautical enterprises?
Swiftski
Coober Pedy terminal is available to all, with air con, TV, drinking water and free wifi. Can't really complain about that!
Last edited by youngmic; 13th Jun 2016 at 02:42.
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Traffic.I.E.W,
See here's the thing Traffic, Australia should by all rights be a leading aviation user country, unlike nearly any other country in the world but much like Canada, we are vast, sparsely populated (thankfully) wealthy and with little in the way of roads.
I take it by your presence here you have a positive feel for aviation, you see it as a good thing to do.
Whilst the motorcar has evolved over the decades from a 100 kph device to 100 kph device, the personal aircraft has gone from expensive to relatively cheap, from fuel hungry to economical and from 200kph to 350kph.
It just makes sense to promote its use, and having welcoming terminal facilities is integral. But hey lets just start with trying to balance on our hind legs before we break into a jog, hold the welcoming terminals, just allow access as a starting point.
And the airport is available to all, however some buildings and infrastructure may not be, at the discretion of the Airport Operator. It's the wonderful world of user pays, and you are not the user. ..oh yes I am!Perhaps a call ahead to check the status of the facilities and maybe ask how much would it cost for the facility to be made available for the use of you and your passengers during your stop?
I take it by your presence here you have a positive feel for aviation, you see it as a good thing to do.
Whilst the motorcar has evolved over the decades from a 100 kph device to 100 kph device, the personal aircraft has gone from expensive to relatively cheap, from fuel hungry to economical and from 200kph to 350kph.
It just makes sense to promote its use, and having welcoming terminal facilities is integral. But hey lets just start with trying to balance on our hind legs before we break into a jog, hold the welcoming terminals, just allow access as a starting point.
And I will state it again, you, lobbing up in your Cherokee, are not the person who is paying for the terminal ie the user. The "head tax" paid by the airline passenger is what gives them access to the terminal and its facilities. The airlines pay for use of the runway, taxiways aprons etc, just like you do, but they also lease terminal space, and supply the passengers who pay the head tax. You don't. So if a council doesn't provide it for you, you haven't missed out on anything.
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Traffic.I.E.W.,
If this is the case then there is some validity in not having access, but only some and the some is pretty small.
We need to go back to principals of primacy, I gave the money to council to build the terminal in the first place with out the "I's" ie, all of us tax payers there is no terminal.
As for the head tax to fund the ongoing terminal up keep well this could be a good point if it were good but it is not and here is the why...
Airport X has the technological way with all to charge me a landing fee at their airport. In your world Traffic.I.E.W. this is as far as I get, a begrudged landing ability and your way. Why did they not charge me a head tax as they did for the RPT passengers? Clearly they can charge a fee for landing so it follows they can charge me a tax for the terminal use too.
However they never gave me the opportunity.
Your position on this matter appears to be one that begrudges the presence of all other aviation activities outside of RPT ops. If this is the case then perhaps you are not the right person to be making comment here.
I have to ask when you fly around the country flying IFR in your sleek Glassair III do you not feel that you are owed some entitlelment to the facilities, particularly as your tax bill was over 200k last year? Perhaps you don't own a Glassair and only fly VFR in your Cherokee and earn a basic wage, the point remains the same however, doesn't it.
A country airport is more than just a runway and a taxi way to the bowser it is a facility for all aviation funded by Australian taxes for all of us to benefit from. It is not there just for the poorer folk who cannot afford their own aircraft and must resort to RPT to move them around.
If a particular airline wants exclusivity of use of the terminal I have no problem with that....as long as they pay for it upfront and don't impede the development of a second terminal for all of us to use.
The "head tax" paid by the airline passenger is what gives them access to the terminal and its facilities.
We need to go back to principals of primacy, I gave the money to council to build the terminal in the first place with out the "I's" ie, all of us tax payers there is no terminal.
As for the head tax to fund the ongoing terminal up keep well this could be a good point if it were good but it is not and here is the why...
Airport X has the technological way with all to charge me a landing fee at their airport. In your world Traffic.I.E.W. this is as far as I get, a begrudged landing ability and your way. Why did they not charge me a head tax as they did for the RPT passengers? Clearly they can charge a fee for landing so it follows they can charge me a tax for the terminal use too.
However they never gave me the opportunity.
Your position on this matter appears to be one that begrudges the presence of all other aviation activities outside of RPT ops. If this is the case then perhaps you are not the right person to be making comment here.
I have to ask when you fly around the country flying IFR in your sleek Glassair III do you not feel that you are owed some entitlelment to the facilities, particularly as your tax bill was over 200k last year? Perhaps you don't own a Glassair and only fly VFR in your Cherokee and earn a basic wage, the point remains the same however, doesn't it.
A country airport is more than just a runway and a taxi way to the bowser it is a facility for all aviation funded by Australian taxes for all of us to benefit from. It is not there just for the poorer folk who cannot afford their own aircraft and must resort to RPT to move them around.
If a particular airline wants exclusivity of use of the terminal I have no problem with that....as long as they pay for it upfront and don't impede the development of a second terminal for all of us to use.
Last edited by youngmic; 13th Jun 2016 at 09:00.
I gave the money to council to build the terminal in the first place
all of us tax payers there is no terminal
Why did they not charge me a head tax as they did for the RPT passengers
it follows they can charge me a tax for the terminal use too
perhaps you are not the right person to be making comment here
particularly as your tax bill was over 200k last year
earn a basic wage, the point remains the same however, doesn't it.
A country airport ....is a facility for all aviation funded by Australian taxes
as long as (airlines) pay for it upfront and don't impede the development of a second terminal for all of us to use
Mate, I can see where you are coming from, to an extent I agree with you, and in an ideal world it would be that way, but in reality, it's not the 60's anymore, and it is patently uneconomic for most small airport operators based on the numbers of itinerants that pass through these days.
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Traffic.I.E.W.
Yes I'm a rate payer x 3.
The local terminal was funded by 40% federal, 40% state and 20% local government money, I suspect many are similar.
Why??
Many small and large town airport terminals allow access to their terminals through a key coded entrance, simple.
What greater cost would be incurred by those that presently don't if they fitted a key pad lock?
Given the economic value to the community of charter, the multitude of AWK operations, including aeromed, Ag, fire bombing, freight sevices, recreational aviation etc. etc. all of whom are denied access to a number of these terminals it appears you have a narrow view of aviation. With your stated involvement in running an airport it seems you may have developed a view that anything other than scheduled RPT movements get in the way of the important business of running a smooth airport operation.
How much flying do you actually do?
WTF!
Yes I'm a rate payer x 3.
The local terminal was funded by 40% federal, 40% state and 20% local government money, I suspect many are similar.
Mate, I can see where you are coming from, to an extent I agree with you, and in an ideal world it would be that way, but in reality, it's not the 60's anymore, and it is patently uneconomic for most small airport operators based on the numbers of itinerants that pass through these days.
Many small and large town airport terminals allow access to their terminals through a key coded entrance, simple.
What greater cost would be incurred by those that presently don't if they fitted a key pad lock?
Given the economic value to the community of charter, the multitude of AWK operations, including aeromed, Ag, fire bombing, freight sevices, recreational aviation etc. etc. all of whom are denied access to a number of these terminals it appears you have a narrow view of aviation. With your stated involvement in running an airport it seems you may have developed a view that anything other than scheduled RPT movements get in the way of the important business of running a smooth airport operation.
How much flying do you actually do?
A country airport ....is a facility for all aviation funded by Australian taxes
No it's not.
No it's not.
20% local government money
Many small and large town airport terminals allow access to their terminals through a key coded entrance
What greater cost would be incurred by those that presently don't if they fitted a key pad lock?
charter, the multitude of AWK operations, including aeromed, Ag, fire bombing, freight sevices, recreational aviation
scheduled RPT movements get in the way of the important business of running a smooth airport operation.
How much flying do you actually do?
WTF!
I would be keen to see any supporting evidence of this, at face value I would disagree. Many country terminals simply install a key code door access and this seems to work just fine, Renmark and Port Pirie to name just two, both have great amenities, both remote, both with snacks and nibbles with a honour tin for payment. They have both been doing it this way for an age so clearly your assumption has yet to deter them.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was I know when I was involved with a regional airport, the Terminal facilities was locked up between RPT flights, but we did provide a pretty good ablution block for the use of itinerants, however, this was constantly getting trashed and costing a fortune in maintenance, so we removed it.
True, and you can use the airport just the same as every other aircraft and airline.
The whole point of this thread is that you cannot, your statement makes zero sense, sorry.
The whole point of this thread is that you cannot, your statement makes zero sense, sorry.
Quote:
You pay for the upkeep of the runways and taxiways, not on access to the other facilities.
So you are saying the local shire takes money from landing fees and only allocates that to airside infrastructure, my landing fee does not go into a pot called general revenue from which money is then extracted for shire staff wages etc.. The same shire staff who attend to terminal upkeep.
You pay for the upkeep of the runways and taxiways, not on access to the other facilities.
So you are saying the local shire takes money from landing fees and only allocates that to airside infrastructure, my landing fee does not go into a pot called general revenue from which money is then extracted for shire staff wages etc.. The same shire staff who attend to terminal upkeep.
You can contact the council in question and ask for the terminal to be opened, you may even be able to do it via the ground agents for the airlines that operate there. It may come with a cost (or maybe even not, maybe they just need notice so the guy cutting the grass can come over and unlock the door). That cost may not seem fair when spread among the 3-4 people in your average Cessna, or even 10-12 in a Chieftain or Titan.
Why it that Australia endowed with innovative, inventive highly industrious individuals has very little in the way of aeronautical enterprises?
Possibly because folk like rmcdonal walk amongst us and vote?? (Sorry RM but your "you can use the airport like the airlines" earned you that)
Possibly because folk like rmcdonal walk amongst us and vote?? (Sorry RM but your "you can use the airport like the airlines" earned you that)
I can see why it would be nice to have them open all the time and to everyone, and I have also seen why this sometimes doesn't work.
However If you think that being an innovative industrious enterprise includes having a valuable asset left untended in a remote location with a tin and a note saying "Please be honest $5 for the bathroom" then I have a monorail you may wish to purchase.