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Caravan C208 Annual Servicing Costs - $33,837

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Caravan C208 Annual Servicing Costs - $33,837

Old 27th Nov 2015, 00:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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You're paying them too much already. That's why you're in credit
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 00:51
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Out of interest, can anyone link to a document that describes what each of those items on Dicks Quote actually involve?

I see things like "Items 1C", "Items 2C" etc... are allocated hours and then mentioned again further on? Can I assume that these items change between each Inspection Document? Otherwise it looks like a lot of potential doubling up?
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 00:53
  #23 (permalink)  
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Torres

I am already on the special low hours Cessna system of maintenance.

I had the engine zero timed by Pratt a few hundred hours ago at a cost of over $200 k

What would a similar service cost on a Beaver?
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 01:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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That quote seems about right for the amount of work required.

When the Caravan maintenance program changed to the Task system CASA demanded that all Caravans were to be put onto the system, as they deemed the annual inspection criteria inadequate.

Just to set up the new program took me over a week of research to find out the stage of the program a particular machine was at. Which I couldn't charge for.

BTW $110 an hour is not the most expensive rate around.

Edit to add: From memory, It depends where the aircraft was in the previous maintenance program, there may be some major work required, the Task document details the interval and inspection/replacement criteria.
And can be expensive, remember our Government wants all passengers to enjoy the same safety margins as QANTAS paxs

Last edited by Eddie Dean; 27th Nov 2015 at 02:15. Reason: lik lik mor
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 02:28
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Dick you need to take into account that you have a 48 month inspection due, which includes fuel tank inspections, detailed cockpit inspections, detailed wing inspection, detailed internal tail cone inspection and landing gear drag link and spring inspections. The 48 month inspection alone is 112 hours @ $110 = $12,300 which is quite reasonable. I would suggest you are not comparing apples with apples when you are looking at another aircraft's 12 month inspection costs.
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 02:36
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Dick. I'm not familiar with the system of maintenance your C208B is on, but a major item in there is the 112 hours labour for a four year item, which may now be due?

When the Caravan maintenance program changed to the Task system CASA demanded that all Caravans were to be put onto the system, as they deemed the annual inspection criteria inadequate.
I think Eddie is suggesting that CASA deemed the Cessna manufacturer's system of maintenance inspection criteria inadequate, thus imposed a more arduous and obviously far more expensive system?

What would a similar service cost on a Beaver?
I have no idea but I'm willing to bet the labour burden and cost for an annual inspection, 100 hourly and new MR for a DHC2 Beaver would be far, far less than your Caravan! Ludicrous I know, but a 60 year old rag and bone aircraft with big, round and oily engine probably costs far less to operate than your low hour, high tech machine.

Do you have the same excessive maintenance costs for the CitationJet, due to the prescribed system of maintenance?
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 02:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Torres, it is the new cessna maintenance system, there is still an annual inspection but we have to do all the tasks due as well
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 02:49
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Hummm, needs 268 hours labour after flying 50 hours. I hope they don't find anything wrong with it... its only an estimate!


Sooo 200k to get the engine zero-timed, 34K for the annual, 50 hours per year... What's the hourly cost of flying that single engine aeroplane? Sounds like Dick needs to take his own advice, sell that one quick and get out.
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 03:22
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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CTE, that is correct, as I understood it, at about April - June this year.
It is not the 50 hours it has done since the last annual, it is where the machine is in the maintenance program.

Look here for one that I am familiar with.
http://www.avtrac.com.au/catalina/ca...som_amd_00.pdf
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 03:36
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Eddie. That explains it. Not a '12 monthly service' at all then. Quite a different thing altogether!
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 04:12
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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New in 1995, now 2015.

Initial 20 Years - Lucky it does not have Sids program (Yet), the ones that are not required often in USA (private ops).

$110 is good, we are $126 +.
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 06:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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If it flys, floats or f***s, rent it. That's nearly $700/hour in maintenance alone before you add in fuel, hangar, insurance, depreciation and loss of interest from not having the money in the bank.

As someone previously said, if you're only doing 50 hours a year ownership isn't the best way to go. Get rid of the aircraft and charter a King Air instead. Nicer ride and you'll be quids in pocket.
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 08:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I recently sourced an exchange IO-520 with new cylinders etc from one of California's biggest Continental overhauler for 50% of my friend's best quote from here [that included freight]...
TBM….I hope you get a good run. Please report back at 1700 hours or jug change/major drama, whichever occurs first.

Band a lot Steve is back
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 12:17
  #34 (permalink)  
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I am not complaining about the cost. Just pointing out the costs that apply to a turbine aircraft

I can see why there are still 40 year old Navajos flying in the charter business.

I can afford these costs however if I was attempting to run a charter business using one of these aircraft I doubt it would be very profitable.

I am glad we share the wealth better here than in America where they have over 50 million on the minimum wage of about $8 per hour.
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 14:13
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Torres,


Your comments are fair. I happen to own a 1989 Toyota Supra Turbo that cost me $60k when new. It will turn 70,000 Kms on my next trip. Like you with your Mazda sports car, I have supplementary oil and filter changes done. The Toyota dealer that sold it to me still does all the mechanical services for me. (Their current Service Manager was the dealership apprentice mechanic when I bought the car 26 years ago! He very kindly personally does all the services for me. He still remembers helping to fit the air conditioning unit all those years ago!)


So for 26 years, I've happily paid the maintenance, registration and insurance costs. And the car has simply been an opportunity for me to go driving whenever I wanted to do so. I still love driving the car as much as I did the day I took delivery of it. Sure it has been a financial indulgence. But I've never complained to anyone about that!


So Torres, you and I aren't complaining about the cost of ownership of our fun toys.


But Dick apparently is. As I said before, if you only fly your Cessna Caravan for 50 hours per year, perhaps ownership isn't the best way to go?
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Old 27th Nov 2015, 15:37
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I have done less than 50 hours in, in the last 12 months.
1. Sell Caravan.

2. Buy Piper Cub.

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Old 27th Nov 2015, 21:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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So Torres, you and I aren't complaining about the cost of ownership of our fun toys.
The Mazda MX5 is cheap. I owned and greatly enjoyed an E Type Jaguar for many years.....

I don't think Dick is complaining about the cost of ownership of his Caravan (or the helicopters), rather the high cost of owning an Australian registered Caravan, maintained to what now seems to be a CASA directed maintenance system, at the far higher Australian labour rate.

I can afford these costs however if I was attempting to run a charter business using one of these aircraft I doubt it would be very profitable.
Actually Dick, the hourly cost of maintaining a Caravan operating 800 or more hours per year is significantly lower (per seat/mile) than any of the older comparable twin engine aircraft. You are paying the price of the many calendar based maintenance items, apparently required in Australia.
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 05:22
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Dick,

Please do us all a favour:-

List the items due on the aircraft, there will be 12, 24, 48 month requirements, possibly even a borescope for a low utilisation engine.

IFR may require Garmin updates to software if so equipped, and of course are you installing ADS-B with out informing us.

I would say there is every chance the MLG legs may have to come out for corrosion inspection, perhaps even an NDT on the tail feather attachments etc.

So please list the items, we don't need to know the dollar allocation we can figure that out for ourselves.

safe flying .............
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 10:28
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of misinformation here .....

All of the Maintenance requirements for a Cessna 208/B are outlined in Cessna CAB11-5 Rev1

Some of the previous links in this thread are for a CASA approved System of Maintenance and refer to the requirements of AD/ENG/5 for the extended TBO to 5,000 Hours. A Private operator does not require a SOM, maintenance is carried out as per the Log Book Statement.

SID’s have always been a part of the MM for the 208 Series. In the USA a Caravan regardless of operation category must have the Inspections as per the Airworthiness Limitations Section (ALS) of the Maintenance Manual carried out as they stood at the time of initial certification. Reference Lorelei Peter, Deputy Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, FAA. Clarification letter https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

In particular …. After added ALS requirements are not mandatory for operators or maintainers of the affected aircraft absent the FAA’s issuing an Airworthiness Directive (AD) or some other notice and comment rulemaking that would make them mandatory. This is why the older Cessna's in the USA in Private Operation do not have to comply with SIDs.

Last edited by edsbar; 28th Nov 2015 at 21:28. Reason: typo
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Old 28th Nov 2015, 17:40
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Aust$110 is USD$78 per hour, thats cheap labor.

A good top quality shop in the USA is currently USD 99 per hr for turbine, some others charge $95 per hr... thats AUD 137 to 132 per hour.


In Singapore charges are AUD 155 for turbine work per hr

So the argument about labor in the USA being cheaper... nahhh ... its total BS!
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