"Left" or "Leaving"...What should I say?
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ENR 1.1 12.8.7.
Like I said, I see where you are coming from but there are other ways to interpret that requirement (who would have thought!).
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my tuppence worth
cockney steve
Surely that level will not be available for other traffic until you are one thousand feet below.
I also believe that you have not left a level until you are at least out of IFR/VFR tolerance for maintaining. It always made me smirk when people would call left FL... as soon as they were given a clearance, whereas the leaving call IMHO was more correct. That was a few years ago anyway.
Step climbs and descents were often misunderstood with either too many or not enough calls made.
Cheers
Surely that level will not be available for other traffic until you are one thousand feet below.
I also believe that you have not left a level until you are at least out of IFR/VFR tolerance for maintaining. It always made me smirk when people would call left FL... as soon as they were given a clearance, whereas the leaving call IMHO was more correct. That was a few years ago anyway.
Step climbs and descents were often misunderstood with either too many or not enough calls made.
Cheers
My two bobs worth
Practically, I can not see why a "leaving", "left" or other call should be needed when identified. Same concept as not needing to when maintaining an assigned level or last vacated level when changing frequencies if you are identified.
Reference?
I thought ENR 1.1 General Procedures 12.1.2 covered this?
"Pilots are not required to nominate a descent point if identified".
Reference?
I thought ENR 1.1 General Procedures 12.1.2 covered this?
"Pilots are not required to nominate a descent point if identified".
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@ Harrowing, - Of course, you're quite correct, but, all things being equal, ATC , in a massively crowded environment, having a desperate need for that airway, would , one supposes, asign it to other traffic than a supersonic rocket or a lead balloon...
That is to say, short of a massive updraught/downdraught/catastrophic failure, the vacating aircraft would continue to change level , as would the aircraft being reassigned to the vacated level.
They would maintain their relative positions to each other, wouldn't they?
Either way, other traffic is not going to get a rude awakening when they realise that "Left " meant "left" and not "vacated," Right?
This thread is really a load of anally retentive pedantry......but if it saves even one "OH 5h1t" moment,it's been worthwhile.
That is to say, short of a massive updraught/downdraught/catastrophic failure, the vacating aircraft would continue to change level , as would the aircraft being reassigned to the vacated level.
They would maintain their relative positions to each other, wouldn't they?
Either way, other traffic is not going to get a rude awakening when they realise that "Left " meant "left" and not "vacated," Right?
This thread is really a load of anally retentive pedantry......but if it saves even one "OH 5h1t" moment,it's been worthwhile.
PASSING FL245, DESCENDING TO (level).
Would that not be more relevant?
Would that not be more relevant?
I'll go along with that --- it is the "communication" that counts, not a "procedure".
Tootle pip!!
PS: Perhaps by know, you have figured out that the important bit in Annex X, Vol.11 is that the underlying principles of communication are set out.
Once again Gentlemen congratulations to all on your fascinating, robust and important contributions to such an important topic regarding left or leaving.
I have enjoyed sipping a red or two while absorbing all six plus pages of said topic. I particularly enjoy the numerous AIP quotes to back up the arguments.
Happybandit, thankyou for your kind PM, I do not know you Sir so relax your secret is safe. Perhaps one day, in a far flung part of the world, in a bar frequented by flight crew, we may unknowingly cross paths and during the ensuring conversation as the topic drifts to such matters we may both have an epiphany and realise who the other is. Until that moment I raise my glass of red and look forward to more discussion.
Back to topic, carry on gentlemen
Doodle doo!!
I have enjoyed sipping a red or two while absorbing all six plus pages of said topic. I particularly enjoy the numerous AIP quotes to back up the arguments.
Happybandit, thankyou for your kind PM, I do not know you Sir so relax your secret is safe. Perhaps one day, in a far flung part of the world, in a bar frequented by flight crew, we may unknowingly cross paths and during the ensuring conversation as the topic drifts to such matters we may both have an epiphany and realise who the other is. Until that moment I raise my glass of red and look forward to more discussion.
Back to topic, carry on gentlemen
Doodle doo!!
..................hey 'JR' i thought you might have 'left' or was contemplating 'leaving' this thread 'cause like me am totally lost as I see little sense 'left' here or it's 'leaving' me fast but either way I'm 'out of' here
Every time I say 'out of FL370' I have a smile on my dial:-)
Wmk2
Every time I say 'out of FL370' I have a smile on my dial:-)
Wmk2
'JR' I say it at random times, sometimes I say 'left' other times 'leaving' & of course may fav 'out of', never get chipped for any version as I am sure the ATC guys can think laterally unlike most pilots:-)
I've said over the years as well 'with you' when changing to a new ATC'er, 'checking in' anything that comes to mind & suits the mood
34 yrs of driving planes & am constantly dreamin' up new ways of saying hello to the guys/gals on the other end of the microphone
Wmk2
I've said over the years as well 'with you' when changing to a new ATC'er, 'checking in' anything that comes to mind & suits the mood
34 yrs of driving planes & am constantly dreamin' up new ways of saying hello to the guys/gals on the other end of the microphoneWmk2
