Diesel V8 flys
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@ Yr. Right....I still remember when 6,000 mile plug -changes were the norm.
I had a V-8 Mercedes in, with electronic injection. The plugs were a textbook pale chocolate colour and the exhaust pipes very similar.....The owner was getting remarkable fuel-economy for such a big, heavy car.
I agree that for pure power-output, better results are had by carb induction...
but the usable energy extracted ,per gallon burnt, is what drives the real-life commercial and general transport world.
(there are some massively overpowered ,totally fuel-inefficient aircraft, of course,- think of the F1 round-the pylon racers like Paul Bonhomme....bet his only concern is the extra fuel's weight slowing him down)
You make a throwaway remark about CASA....Everything I've read on these forums, leads me to conclude they are an inept, self-serving beaurocracy which has lost sight of it's raison d' etre and hastotally inadequate supervision.
Surely you don't give any credence to this cunch of bunts ?
@Andy RR...thanks for the laugh! witty and apposite!
I had a V-8 Mercedes in, with electronic injection. The plugs were a textbook pale chocolate colour and the exhaust pipes very similar.....The owner was getting remarkable fuel-economy for such a big, heavy car.
I agree that for pure power-output, better results are had by carb induction...
but the usable energy extracted ,per gallon burnt, is what drives the real-life commercial and general transport world.
(there are some massively overpowered ,totally fuel-inefficient aircraft, of course,- think of the F1 round-the pylon racers like Paul Bonhomme....bet his only concern is the extra fuel's weight slowing him down)
You make a throwaway remark about CASA....Everything I've read on these forums, leads me to conclude they are an inept, self-serving beaurocracy which has lost sight of it's raison d' etre and hastotally inadequate supervision.
Surely you don't give any credence to this cunch of bunts ?
@Andy RR...thanks for the laugh! witty and apposite!
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Mmmm casa. We'll I worked against them they tried to have me removed from a court case as a hostile witness and I've worked with them. Unfortunately they are our regulator and with have to work within the parameters they set. But yes they made up now of ex military and airline staff that have no idea how the industry works and needs to be able to survive. Un like the UK we such a large country on a break down last week 2 1/2 hour flight at 160 average grind speed to get to the machine. Or a days driving there and then another back. It's sad to see what these clowns have done.
Aust lives of Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane and if you are any where else stiff ****.
How ever we just keep putting our heads in the sand and hope it will all go away. As can be seen with cvd but action has started. It only takes one stone to be pulled for the ache to collapse it getting to that stone. People have had enough of mindless crap.
To that point I believe that the Dalby case has been dropped by casa.
But back on track yes efi will maintain to a closer level the optimum mixture but it's only a small saving. Is it worth the development cost involved re invent the wheel. Personal I would think not. I guess time will tell. And nothing still beats the spark from a magneto.
Cheers
Aust lives of Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane and if you are any where else stiff ****.
How ever we just keep putting our heads in the sand and hope it will all go away. As can be seen with cvd but action has started. It only takes one stone to be pulled for the ache to collapse it getting to that stone. People have had enough of mindless crap.
To that point I believe that the Dalby case has been dropped by casa.
But back on track yes efi will maintain to a closer level the optimum mixture but it's only a small saving. Is it worth the development cost involved re invent the wheel. Personal I would think not. I guess time will tell. And nothing still beats the spark from a magneto.
Cheers
But back on track yes efi will maintain to a closer level the optimum mixture but it's only a small saving. Is it worth the development cost involved re invent the wheel. Personal I would think not. I guess time will tell. And nothing still beats the spark from a magneto.
Cheers
Cheers
Good engine management will:
- improve fuel consumption for everyone by much more than "a small saving" - even those who are currently operating LOP
- almost eliminate starting issues at almost any temperature.
- make all of the possible power available whatever the density altitude.
- eliminate cylinder head temperature excursions that promote fatigue failure.
- reduce oil contamination from rich operation extending oil change intervals
- minimize or perhaps even eliminate plug fouling
- automate engine pre-flight testing - indeed monitor the engine condition 100% of the time
-allow operation on a wider range of fuel quality, including unleaded.
- automate and optimize turbocharger operation
- log engine run-time and fault conditions for better maintenance.
- a bunch of other stuff I haven't even imagined.
I can see why the established LAMEs wouldn't be interested though or actively promote such technology, because it represents a lot of new learning and a bunch of lost maintenance business opportunity.
But that's neither here nor there, because the real stumbling block is one of finance, development capital, litigation risk and the cost of regulatory approval. I was once pretty keen to use my experience in this area to develop something along these lines, but as it's mostly only GA-focused and GA is a shrinking market given the current regulatory environment world-wide, there is precious little interest in funding the development of such a product.
It's been quiet on this thread for a while. Has anyone heared how the EPS engine is progressing through it's testing programme. It seemed to generate a lot of interest from punters at Oshkosh this year. Wonders if it is achieving it's targets.
Piper are quoting a new price of about $400K US for the Archer DX, with that price it might actually generate some buyers. Avgas certainly isn't the way ahead in my opinion. Once the bugs are ironed out the engine should be good.
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But that will put Jaba out off bussiness (sic).
Come to think of it... A bottle of Bundy rum does a pretty good job of it too.
I reckon the diesel V8 won't be generally available any time soon.
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New "old" technology of the EPS engine is interesting, just had a look at their web site. It appears they are operating an aluminum propellor.
It had a lot of of interest at Oskosh.
I was talking to a bloke in Cairns that has a diesel in a 182?(I think), was ambivalent about the pros and cons.
Maybe worth considering when I replace the engine in the 206
Hi Andy
Reading through the thread I noted your thoughts on maintenance of the engines. The maintenance people I know have a deep interest in new technology and gaining whatever qualifications required, so I feel they would view it as more income not less.
It had a lot of of interest at Oskosh.
I was talking to a bloke in Cairns that has a diesel in a 182?(I think), was ambivalent about the pros and cons.
Maybe worth considering when I replace the engine in the 206
I can see why the established LAMEs wouldn't be interested though or actively promote such technology, because it represents a lot of new learning and a bunch of lost maintenance business opportunity.
Reading through the thread I noted your thoughts on maintenance of the engines. The maintenance people I know have a deep interest in new technology and gaining whatever qualifications required, so I feel they would view it as more income not less.
Last edited by Eddie Dean; 17th Oct 2014 at 21:52.
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People are can't afford to do an o/h now how are they going to be able to afford an engine replacement. Remember the the thunder v8. Where is it now. Dead and buried. The reason we have the engingunes we have now is because they got it right in the first place. With modern electronics I'm sorry that's not going to be the answer. Will you pay more for your service to maybe have less done. Your brains are clicking now. Wtf is he in about. Who is going to pay for the computer box to fix it when you have one aircraft to look after. I'm not against improvements but they come at a hugue cost to all them that are involved. Then you have problems of the machine saying something's wrong. Then you spend a day looking for the proplem to find it's not fitted and it's a soft where proplem. Who gets that cost. I'll tell you we were it. So unless your prepared to spend more and I really can't see GA doing that can you.
Well, you have all the fancy glass cockpits, probably running linux-derivative OS's behind the jazzy graphics. The easiest and best solution would be to have the diagnositics functions, read-outs, service notes, service history etc. on-line and available to everyone, pilot, LAME et al. No need to plug anything in at all!
Just because it is new, doesn't mean it has to cost more money to service, if it's designed right...
Just because it is new, doesn't mean it has to cost more money to service, if it's designed right...
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News flash. The aircraft will be able to give you the code with out any computer attached.
No ****e.
Aviation Andy is a leader and not a flower. We been able tondo this since the 80s. A little known aviation company you may have heard of is called airbus. It's aircraft where always sick. They always where calling the boss to say I'm sick and can't work today. Then the dr was called only to find nothin wrong with you off you go.
Like the problem we had. I'm sick. Go though everything only to find out that it wasn't even fitted to the aircraft. But you have to go though everything before you can say nothing wrong with you.
Now the difference between automotive world and aviation we have to have everything certified before we can use it. Those cost have to be then flowed on. Now when you consider that ford in the first 18 months of sale sold over one million units. I doubt if we even produced that figure in the whole of aviation since the first flight was done.
Cost never go down in aviation manly due to litigation cost but also nothing stays the same for long. May look the same but new materials are I then uses.
Aviation never sleeps but desiel engines will produce there own problems
No ****e.
Aviation Andy is a leader and not a flower. We been able tondo this since the 80s. A little known aviation company you may have heard of is called airbus. It's aircraft where always sick. They always where calling the boss to say I'm sick and can't work today. Then the dr was called only to find nothin wrong with you off you go.
Like the problem we had. I'm sick. Go though everything only to find out that it wasn't even fitted to the aircraft. But you have to go though everything before you can say nothing wrong with you.
Now the difference between automotive world and aviation we have to have everything certified before we can use it. Those cost have to be then flowed on. Now when you consider that ford in the first 18 months of sale sold over one million units. I doubt if we even produced that figure in the whole of aviation since the first flight was done.
Cost never go down in aviation manly due to litigation cost but also nothing stays the same for long. May look the same but new materials are I then uses.
Aviation never sleeps but desiel engines will produce there own problems
Everything's certified in the automotive world too, you know. Red tape abounds there too!
...and they have diagnostics systems you LAME's can't even imagine
...and they sell millions of units a year.
Now, who's leading and who's following...?
...and they have diagnostics systems you LAME's can't even imagine
...and they sell millions of units a year.
Now, who's leading and who's following...?
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Just because it is new, doesn't mean it has to cost more money to service, if it's designed right...
I would assume that the FADEC on the Graflight engine would have the same interrogation function as modern vehicle ECUs, so may not require any specialest equipment, just a bridge to short out the appropriate terminals and a flashing light.
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Yep you win.
Lots of muti engine cars with complex fly by wire controlling 5000 to 8000 psi hydraulic systems and cabin px systems with carbon composites and carbon brakes with full anti lock temp sensing with wheel px relaying systems and muti avionics with gps Atsb hf and VHF and telemetry via satellite in real time with full fadec engine control. Nah we use none off that.
Lots of muti engine cars with complex fly by wire controlling 5000 to 8000 psi hydraulic systems and cabin px systems with carbon composites and carbon brakes with full anti lock temp sensing with wheel px relaying systems and muti avionics with gps Atsb hf and VHF and telemetry via satellite in real time with full fadec engine control. Nah we use none off that.
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Oh and what about roller lifters and viable cams fuel cells lithium battery's carbon fibre composites aluminium panels etc etc. just about anything you can bring up has been tried or used in aviation in the first instance.
Everything's certified in the automotive world too, you know. Red tape abounds there too!
...and they have diagnostics systems you LAME's can't even imagine
...and they sell millions of units a year.
...and they have diagnostics systems you LAME's can't even imagine
...and they sell millions of units a year.
The OEM market may survive but I don't see the retro fit market taking off, it'll cost more than most aircraft are worth.
The only reason we had electronic GA EFIS was the development of stability systems in motor cars which paved the way for the "gyro" systems in the EFIS screens to be built at economic prices. But for the systems to get market share they still have to be priced competitively with existing gear and provide extra functionality, which of course they do in spades. Just to get some idea of the cost of certification compare the price of EFIS units for the home built market to the certified GA aircraft market.
Unfortunately a diesel engine doesn't provide a major step ahead for most owners to bother with the cost. Plus unlike an EFIS system which will pretty much fit straight into the existing panel for most aircraft, with a diesel engine there's the changes to the engine mount and probably fuel system and quite likely new cowls and prop etc. Not insignificant items. All to do what?
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I have to dis agree on cars given us efis in GA. Efis in GA has been around a lot longer than the use in cars. I would think there are more aircraft manufactures using glass screens than cars manufactures. If you really need to thank anyone it would be the computer industry and also the gaming industry. They the ones that really have made a Difference to screens and to making them smaller lighter and reliable. Rate gyros in the hand controller for motion detections.
But still once again the progression came for aviation down to the motor industry and not the other way.
But once again the cost and repair cost can cripple you when they fail. And they do fail.
But still once again the progression came for aviation down to the motor industry and not the other way.
But once again the cost and repair cost can cripple you when they fail. And they do fail.