Fire Bombers
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brisbane,Australia
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It is bit strange that Australia is trying to beat bushfire without Canadairs.How many homes must be lost or lives before they find out way to buy them.They can scoop water from shallow waters even inside busy ports or rivers.Seems it is easier and cheaper to loose homes,lives,forest etc.. than spend some money for CL-415s.Every year the same story and new damage.They just watch in the sky and wait for rain like recently when fire burnt on North Stradbroke island for days.What do you think that CL415 could not scoop water somewhere around island or from Brisbane river? Look on Youtube or some other sites what pilots do in Greece,Italy,Croatia,France etc and where about they scoop water.
We cant beat huge fire with those tiny Pipers or helicopters.
We cant beat huge fire with those tiny Pipers or helicopters.
Yesterday I was sitting on the deck of my boat in a bay in Southern Tassie watching two helicopters at work on a couple of very small fires nearby.
They had unlimited access to water, light wind conditions and seemingly everything in their favour, but still worked solidly for two days to finish the job. One seemed to be having problems with its bucket occasionally dropping its load before it got to the fire, but regardless it seemed like a lot of costly hours and effort flown for a minor fire.
Struck me that a larger fixed wing aircraft like a Bae146 working out of Cambridge or Hobart would have probably done the job in two runs taking maybe half an hour each. Or a CL215 scooping from the same bay as the choppers in not much more time.
But I am no expert, so correct me if that would not have been the case.
They had unlimited access to water, light wind conditions and seemingly everything in their favour, but still worked solidly for two days to finish the job. One seemed to be having problems with its bucket occasionally dropping its load before it got to the fire, but regardless it seemed like a lot of costly hours and effort flown for a minor fire.
Struck me that a larger fixed wing aircraft like a Bae146 working out of Cambridge or Hobart would have probably done the job in two runs taking maybe half an hour each. Or a CL215 scooping from the same bay as the choppers in not much more time.
But I am no expert, so correct me if that would not have been the case.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cloud9
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Ever tried to put a Bon Fire out with a bucket of water? Takes a fair bit of doing.
They can't put the fire out totally, all the bombers can do is try to contain it and not let it get any bigger.
They can't put the fire out totally, all the bombers can do is try to contain it and not let it get any bigger.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: australia
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Ive said this before and ill say it again. The RFS don't wont aircraft they only have them because the public now expect it. They wont Flash red trucks with flashing lights and staff they don't have to pay for. They wont fires they don't put fires out as soon as they start, they let them go wow we have this great big fire now, now I get my head on the TV and can ask for more funds get the picture.
It is empire building
Im not talking about the many great people that volunteer there time and lives but they let down by what's above them
It is empire building
Im not talking about the many great people that volunteer there time and lives but they let down by what's above them
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Well smash you ever done any work with them from an aviation view. I have and I can tell you things that would you would never believe, trust me I don't lie and have no need to. There is a bigger picture than you will ever know. Like I said aircraft are not Red fire trucks.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Smash there are so much I cant tell, how ever its on the pubic record. I suggest you look at the court case over the Canberra fires. The state lost the case and where found guilty . The state change the law so the state cannot be sued. Would you like me to continue.
Sorry to tell the truth and I have had others on this site who are also in the know agree with me and what I have said.
Sorry to tell the truth and I have had others on this site who are also in the know agree with me and what I have said.
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Just spotted this thread.
Worth noting that the bushfire risk would be mitigated if people actually did more back burning. Its better for the environment here in Aus, and it reduces the risk of major fires. Problem is there is to many city slickers who move to the bush areas and refuse to back burn. Not sure whether it's because they are scared or because they have some stupid green concepts in their head. I have a mate who refuses to backburn, and I just cant figure out why. HE is in a prime spot to get killed if a bushfire comes through, and no matter what I tell him he wont listen. If you have ever been caught in a bushfire, you will understand why its so important.
So rather than paying exorbitant amounts of money transporting fire bombing aircraft from EU to AUS , perhaps we would be better of spending the money getting rural fire brigades educating people about back burning, and out there doing effective back burns. A proactive approach to the situation would be far more appropriate.
Worth noting that the bushfire risk would be mitigated if people actually did more back burning. Its better for the environment here in Aus, and it reduces the risk of major fires. Problem is there is to many city slickers who move to the bush areas and refuse to back burn. Not sure whether it's because they are scared or because they have some stupid green concepts in their head. I have a mate who refuses to backburn, and I just cant figure out why. HE is in a prime spot to get killed if a bushfire comes through, and no matter what I tell him he wont listen. If you have ever been caught in a bushfire, you will understand why its so important.
So rather than paying exorbitant amounts of money transporting fire bombing aircraft from EU to AUS , perhaps we would be better of spending the money getting rural fire brigades educating people about back burning, and out there doing effective back burns. A proactive approach to the situation would be far more appropriate.
A grass fire here in ML took out a mates house up the back of Wallan. He loved the idea of trees around his house and all over his acreage. Granted, the fire got hot enough thru the scrub around his area that it crowned and really let rip...lost his shed, his race car and tools and almost lost his house...story behind that!. The moral of the story? He has bought a chainsaw and now there is a ten meter kill zone around his house and property boundary...F@%% the greens AND the CFnA! He says.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: australia
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Prevention is better than the cure. Once the fire takes hold there not much you can do if there nothing that has been done to prevent it in the first place. Its not well known but the political view of the RFS and the state govs get extra $$$$$$ if the fire get lagre enough from the federal gov. Hence why if you have not notice how long it take to get aircraft into the fire before it takes hold.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Getting back to my earlier post on page 2 of this thread, I notice that Buffalo Airways have obtained one of the ex Aero Union Orions.
Looks like they are viable after all.
Wunwing
Looks like they are viable after all.
Wunwing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
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and now there is a ten meter kill zone around his house and property boundary...F@%% the greens AND the CFnA! He says.
We need a holistic approach to fire fighting, with aviation forming a part of that. The NAFC is a good start, but not every state has signed up yet. Also,we can't just always have what we've always had. Aviation firefighting needs to be a performance-evaluated, evolving capability. This means achieving the best capability for best use of funds.
The main advantages of aviation in fire fighting are rapid detection/provision of fire intelligence, rapid attack/containment, and increased situational awareness for fire commanders. At the moment, we are not achieving the best of these capabilities in the most efficient way.
The main advantages of aviation in fire fighting are rapid detection/provision of fire intelligence, rapid attack/containment, and increased situational awareness for fire commanders. At the moment, we are not achieving the best of these capabilities in the most efficient way.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tasmania and High Wollemi
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aviation quick reaction.
Subversive, have a look at the RFS Canobolas zone plan for bad days. Drommy or 802 can often beat the red truck to the fire as they are dispatched at the same time. Lets the ground crew do quick mop up and go home.
Parkies similar for RAFT chasing lighting strikes.
Very effective combination in initial attack.
Parkies similar for RAFT chasing lighting strikes.
Very effective combination in initial attack.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
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I had an interesting night last night with a local community leader in one of last seasons badly burnt areas.I had the temerity to ask when the enquiry into last years fire was being held. The answer was we dont need one. When I asked about the poor ground response that I observed during the beginning of that fire, I was told that this was because all the fire fighters were at work so the time delay was understandable.I just give up.
These people dont deserve anything better.They actually believe that red trucks with lots of flashing lights will save the world.
Wunwing
These people dont deserve anything better.They actually believe that red trucks with lots of flashing lights will save the world.
Wunwing
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Topical zombie thread.
The bigger equipment is here, right now.
So are the fires. Right now.
How do they stack up?
Seems to be a lot of properties lost if the media is to be believed.
Interested to hear the angles.
The bigger equipment is here, right now.
So are the fires. Right now.
How do they stack up?
Seems to be a lot of properties lost if the media is to be believed.
Interested to hear the angles.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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New aviation resources give help from above - NSW Rural Fire Service
Here is the link to the press release in NSW referring to DC10, C130 and aircranes. Were they used in Victoria or left sitting on the ground up here?
Here is the link to the press release in NSW referring to DC10, C130 and aircranes. Were they used in Victoria or left sitting on the ground up here?
Ive said this before and ill say it again. The RFS don't wont aircraft they only have them because the public now expect it. They wont Flash red trucks with flashing lights and staff they don't have to pay for. They wont fires they don't put fires out as soon as they start, they let them go wow we have this great big fire now, now I get my head on the TV and can ask for more funds get the picture.
It is empire building
Im not talking about the many great people that volunteer there time and lives but they let down by what's above them
It is empire building
Im not talking about the many great people that volunteer there time and lives but they let down by what's above them
Yr right!!!!!
look maybe you're actually right in the fact that the district officers want to front up to a coronial or a parliamentary committee explaining why the world burnt to the ground all because they were too pig headed to have air support All so they could use the flash red trucks.
I'm sure that a 80k per year public servant reaching the end of his career really wants the risk of him losing it all. What I hear is that the vollos on the ground don't like them because they don't go and get to play.