ASIC – what measurable safety benefit?

[PinkusDickus]

The government has created a monster that has to be fed. Our argument for their abolition would be countered with the loss of jobs in the administration of issuing ASICs.

[QFF]

The government has created a monster that has to be fed. Our argument for their abolition would be countered with the loss of jobs in the administration of issuing ASICs.

So the ASIC does have a security function after all - Job Security!

[Wally Mk2]

'USH' they are one of the same for me, that's what I am alluding to here. To get from the street to my 'office' I am unable to do so unless I flash the ASIC @ the only check point.


Wmk2

[Spotlight]

Okay Wally, to expand your thinking a little. Do you ever passenger in uniform?

[YPJT]

All the airports I go to that HAD the blue line now require an ASIC for access to any part of the tarmac. Mildura & Moorabbin are prime examples.

The magic blue line came about as a means of delineating an apron between screened and non screened services. Compliance used to be an absolute nightmare when you a. had to tell the pilot and pax of a C172 that they and there bags had to be screened, b. do it with a straight face and c. Hand back to them any prohibited items that they may have had in their carry on. Some CASA aerodrome inspectors started getting worked up over the line as it was not compliant with MOS139.

The regs were changed in Nov of last year that removed the requirement to screen non RPT / Open charter aircraft that departed off the same apron except for the Cat 1 airports. So nothing should stop you going to a non RPT aircraft provided you do not mix with screened persons, baggage or the aircraft itself.

Still a long way to go and I think you will find that even OTS are sympathetic to many of the regs that we are stuck with. The act and regs were drafted over a relatively short period post Sept 11 and unfortunately a one size fits all approach was used. I am sure that Creamie, Leadsled et al will agree with me when I say that legislative change is not a simple process but it can be done. You have to be prepared to slog it out and put up with some setbacks along the way.

Before anyone takes their shot at me for being some sort of apologist for aviation security. I do take it seriously however I also look at the best way to achieve compliance, a realistic security outcome and minimal inconvenience to industry.

[bankrunner]

Originally Posted by Frank Arouet

One is wise not to stand between a Local Government official and a tin of cash and we all know what happened.

I'd be surprised if there's a single regional council out there forced to do "security" upgrades that didn't end up out of pocket in the process. Most of them are flat out keeping the runway and taxiways up to scratch with the money they have, and only bother at all to keep their once or twice daily RPT service.

Originally Posted by VH-XXX

The police security checks are a joke also. Convicted criminals possess ASIC cards so what is the point? I know of a rapist (time served) and an arsonist (time served) that have ASIC cards, so I struggle to see who they are stopping from obtaining them by use of the security check....

That's the thing -- it's a "security" check, not a criminal background check. It's a essentially a check to make sure the person seeking the card isn't already on an ASIO sh*tlist because they spend too much time at the Lakemba mosque or something.

That said, already possessing a Top Secret security clearance (the process to obtain which is infinitely more thorough than anything involved in the ASIC process) doesn't get you a free ride either. Mates of mine who are serving ADF members with such clearances have had to go through the same process as everyone else to get their ASICs.

[Jack Ranga]

Legislative change happens fairly quickly when they want it to

[ZAZ]

ASICS

Had one since beginning
Never been stopped ramp checked, often wear it wrong side up.
My mates is in glove box of his plane, never takes it out.

They tell me Mildura is savage and EN, never been asked.
Go to YPAD everyone wers an ASIC even the cleaner.

AVID?
what ever happened to the AV ID which without in theory you cannot exercise PIC priviledges, mine is aged and out of date in my old blue licence booklet.
It was supposed to be the be all and end all of security with its holographic stamp..

3c

[cattletruck]

Does anyone have some hard figures on how much ASICs cost the industry? A speculative $20m p/a has been bandied about, which would make the whole affair worth well over $150m since introduction.

...and all it has given back is discounted food to the lucky few that work at the big terminals.

If the ASIC security scheme was actually truly valid and worthwhile then it would have been introduced for free as its intrinsic benefits would have made it justifyable to the community at large. But to me it just looks like a rort.

[YPJT]

If the ASIC security scheme was actually truly valid and worthwhile then it would have been introduced for free as its intrinsic benefits would have made it justifyable to the community at large.

That Utopian world has long gone. Regardless of need or benefit, you want - you pay for it. Similar to another thread where there is lamenting about the bygone days when charts and operational docs were provided FOC.

Don't know how much of a "rort" it is.
The Auscheck background from memory costs $99 for the ASIO, police checks. They actually make available detailed costings and were able to knock a few dollars of the price a couple of years back and certainly turn around applications a hell of a lot faster than AFP did when ASICs were first brought in. There are also card printing consumables and a specialised piece of kit that last time I looked cost in the vicinity of about $35,000. Someone also has to be employed to check the forms and chase up the 10 % or more that don't send correct ID documents or complete the form correctly. In a nutshell, no one who processes ASICs is driving around in Porches and flying first class around the world.

[cattletruck]

Regardless of need or benefit, you want - you pay for it.

That's the entire point. The perception is that there is little benefit, and what benefit there is is not worth paying for.

[YPJT]

Cattletruck, fair enough mate but regardless of the perception, we are well and truly stuck with these things unless you can convince the regulator otherwise. The best we could hope for are some improvements such as increase in the validity period from 2 to 5 years.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

The case could be made, now that pilots have been carrying ASICs for nearly ten years...how many adverse ASIO/FP findings have been found within pilot/aircrew holders? If the answer is zero then put to Attorney General the obvious over prescriptive and hugely costly regime wasted on processing ASICs for aircrew and revert to a once only entry and reapply validity of a once only issue of an AVID. Revert ASIC back to site specific ID handled by employer group.

[VH-Cheer Up]

I can't believe the blase attitude of you, my fellow aviators.

I think the value of the ASIC program speaks for itself - since the ASIC was made mandatory there has been not a single aeroplane flown into a tall building in Australia.

(...except of course poor old Tim in Orange ).

Wasn't Tim a CFIT? No tall buildings within miles.

[Wally Mk2]

'spoty' I try not to pax/go in my monkey uniform (hate it) but even if I do I have a boarding pass so an ASIC is obviously not req'd.



Wmk2

[Kieran17]

This petition was put up on change.org not too long ago trying to achieve the same result.

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petition...cards-entirely

Only 1500 or so have signed it so far. Hopefully something might come of it...

[YPJT]

A five line rant was never going to change the legislation no matter how many signed it.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Methinks someone with bottomless pockets needs to make an FOI request to the Attorney General's office with regard to the number of adverse reports returned on existing ASIC holders within aircrew ranks....Dick? Anyone? anyone?

[KittyKatKaper]

Looking at http://asio.gov.au/img/files/ASIO-Re...012-update.pdf
Page 19 says

In 2011–12, ASIO completed 153,644 counter-terrorism security assessments, a 40 per cent increase on those completed for 2010–11. No adverse or qualified counter-terrorism security assessments were issued in 2011–12.

Page 21 then says that in 2011-2011 there were 67,501 ASIC and 30,421 MSIC assessments.

Went through the available ASIO annual reports at ASIO » Previous Reports to Parliament and picked out the specific ASIC+MSIC related figures.
2003-04 58147 checks, 0 adverse assessments, 0 qualified assessments.
2004-05 38466, 0, 0
2005-06 71733, 0, 0
2006-07 118118, 0, 0
2007-08 70084, 0, 0
2008-09 56266, 0, 0
2009-10 88367, 0, 0
2010-11 97922, 1, unknown
2011-12 138312, 0, 0

So., 1 adverse finding, after more than 735000 checks over 9 years, and we don't know if that would have been used at someplace meaningfull, ie an international airport instead of a GA airport like Birdsville.


That is just ASIO, the AFP probably use different assessment criteria, but in total, I still believe that the whole ASIC and MSIC regimes are political kneejerkarrie + total bull**** + empire building.