ASIC – what measurable safety benefit?
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ASIC – what measurable safety benefit?
I have just received notification from CASA that I have to renew my ASIC. As my pilot friends, John and Martha King, in the USA don’t require anything equivalent (in the USA you simply need your pilot licence and any photographic identification, say, a driver licence), I wonder what the real safety advantage is here?
In the time I have had an ASIC I have never been able to work out how the security is improved by having it. In my recent flight to New Guinea in my LongRanger, I flew up the east coast (what a nightmare). I usually have to land the LongRanger well away from the terminal for refuelling so there is no chance of getting a cold drink or going to the dunny. Even at Rocky (I think it was) I saw a military helicopter parking near the terminal and asked if I could park there – the Controller said “no way, that’s a military apron!”.
If the home of “September 11” with fifteen times the number of aeroplanes doesn’t require an ASIC, should we consider removing the requirement here and then spending the money on something that will really improve safety - like more flying hours for private pilots?
I look forward to your thoughts.
In the time I have had an ASIC I have never been able to work out how the security is improved by having it. In my recent flight to New Guinea in my LongRanger, I flew up the east coast (what a nightmare). I usually have to land the LongRanger well away from the terminal for refuelling so there is no chance of getting a cold drink or going to the dunny. Even at Rocky (I think it was) I saw a military helicopter parking near the terminal and asked if I could park there – the Controller said “no way, that’s a military apron!”.
If the home of “September 11” with fifteen times the number of aeroplanes doesn’t require an ASIC, should we consider removing the requirement here and then spending the money on something that will really improve safety - like more flying hours for private pilots?
I look forward to your thoughts.
Other than a discount at times on terminal food / coffee no advantage at all
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even Millitary ID's are no longer acceptable. its asic or nothing
Unless things have changed in the past week, that doesn't seem kosher to me.
Can you cite evidence to support your statement ?
Unless things have changed in the past week, that doesn't seem kosher to me.
Can you cite evidence to support your statement ?
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the question in parliament at the time was how do we know that we don't have terrorists among the australian pilot community.
to meet this parliamentary requirement all pilots had to undergo security screening and the Air Side Identification Card was morphed into the Aviation Security Identification Card.
ok we all passed the security checks.
the legislation required a pilot to hold the card. so I did.
the legislation never required the card to be renewed unless flying to particular airports. I have never renewed mine.
the apparatus surrounding the ASIC is utter paranoid delusional nonsense.
it needs to be removed, deleted and never revisited.
it is utter balderdash.
to meet this parliamentary requirement all pilots had to undergo security screening and the Air Side Identification Card was morphed into the Aviation Security Identification Card.
ok we all passed the security checks.
the legislation required a pilot to hold the card. so I did.
the legislation never required the card to be renewed unless flying to particular airports. I have never renewed mine.
the apparatus surrounding the ASIC is utter paranoid delusional nonsense.
it needs to be removed, deleted and never revisited.
it is utter balderdash.
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It goes without saying Dick that you are 100% correct.
One might think that it would be required at Tullamarine or Mascot for example as it proves if you have the right to be airside, but it doesn't. The ASIC is useless in this regard, has no magnetic strip or chip, so they need their own security system anyway, so the only people that might possibly need it, don't need it anyway!
A pilots licence with photo issued by CASA would be ample.
Is the answer an AVID? We already have these... so perhaps that's the answer. Unfortunately it won't be a cheaply available card and will still cost what it does now I can only assume.
If they want to scan our person as we fly out of Paraburdoo or some other tin-pot airport, that's fine, we show our licence, get scanned and move through. We don't need an ASIC to do this!
Has it improved safety? Doubt it, because access to any security controlled airport is controlled by personnel, not by the card. It's not an access card so it has no value.
The police security checks are a joke also. Convicted criminals possess ASIC cards so what is the point? I know of a rapist (time served) and an arsonist (time served) that have ASIC cards, so I struggle to see who they are stopping from obtaining them by use of the security check....
One might think that it would be required at Tullamarine or Mascot for example as it proves if you have the right to be airside, but it doesn't. The ASIC is useless in this regard, has no magnetic strip or chip, so they need their own security system anyway, so the only people that might possibly need it, don't need it anyway!
A pilots licence with photo issued by CASA would be ample.
Is the answer an AVID? We already have these... so perhaps that's the answer. Unfortunately it won't be a cheaply available card and will still cost what it does now I can only assume.
If they want to scan our person as we fly out of Paraburdoo or some other tin-pot airport, that's fine, we show our licence, get scanned and move through. We don't need an ASIC to do this!
Has it improved safety? Doubt it, because access to any security controlled airport is controlled by personnel, not by the card. It's not an access card so it has no value.
The police security checks are a joke also. Convicted criminals possess ASIC cards so what is the point? I know of a rapist (time served) and an arsonist (time served) that have ASIC cards, so I struggle to see who they are stopping from obtaining them by use of the security check....
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my nipper tried to get access to the aircraft through the security screening.
"you'll have to go through full screening."
"I'm the pilot of the aircraft."
"sorry you'll have to go through full screening."
(he was wearing full company uniform)
so the nipper walked out of the terminal around the side to the GA pilots gate punched in the secret 'known only to pilots gate code' and walked out to the aeroplane.
security it seems is 100% populated by wankers.
"you'll have to go through full screening."
"I'm the pilot of the aircraft."
"sorry you'll have to go through full screening."
(he was wearing full company uniform)
so the nipper walked out of the terminal around the side to the GA pilots gate punched in the secret 'known only to pilots gate code' and walked out to the aeroplane.
security it seems is 100% populated by wankers.
Last edited by dubbleyew eight; 15th Oct 2013 at 03:18.
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The original concept, (and I have the pamphlet), was to have an ASIC for access to the security controlled portion of an airport which I understood included the terminal area and fuel installations and any other sensitive areas as designated. By this reckoning a tin of paint outlining those areas would have alerted pilots where they could or couldn't go.
Then DOTARS offered airport operators cash to improve safety and stipulated that ALL the airside was to be considered a security restricted zone.
One is wise not to stand between a Local Government official and a tin of cash and we all know what happened.
Fences that ran nowhere or for a few meters either side of The Oodnadatta track airport terminal worked to keep kangaroos in and the whole scheme showed similarities with the education building revolution put together by more recent government.
The AVID/ ASIC idea was ridiculed, cash was taken and "boogey boards" and bag chuckers came to the front page of newspapers.
And people, the only way you'll get rid of it is to figure a way the politicians and bureaucrats can think it was their idea and the original proponents can walk away without loosing face and with rare dignity.
The ball is in your court..............
Good luck!
Then DOTARS offered airport operators cash to improve safety and stipulated that ALL the airside was to be considered a security restricted zone.
One is wise not to stand between a Local Government official and a tin of cash and we all know what happened.
Fences that ran nowhere or for a few meters either side of The Oodnadatta track airport terminal worked to keep kangaroos in and the whole scheme showed similarities with the education building revolution put together by more recent government.
The AVID/ ASIC idea was ridiculed, cash was taken and "boogey boards" and bag chuckers came to the front page of newspapers.
And people, the only way you'll get rid of it is to figure a way the politicians and bureaucrats can think it was their idea and the original proponents can walk away without loosing face and with rare dignity.
The ball is in your court..............
Good luck!
I can't believe the blase attitude of you, my fellow aviators.
I think the value of the ASIC program speaks for itself - since the ASIC was made mandatory there has been not a single aeroplane flown into a tall building in Australia.
(...except of course poor old Tim in Orange
).
I think the value of the ASIC program speaks for itself - since the ASIC was made mandatory there has been not a single aeroplane flown into a tall building in Australia.
(...except of course poor old Tim in Orange
).
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I wouldn't mind an ASIC so much if it was good for five or ten years, but the hassle of getting a new one every two years is way too painful.
In the past I've kept using the old one for a couple of years beyond expiry because no one checks the date anyway.
In the past I've kept using the old one for a couple of years beyond expiry because no one checks the date anyway.
Depends where you're standing....
The people who thought up the ASIC, and those that benefit from issuing them will tell you its been a great success. See !... since its introduction NO pilot has used the aircraft/been involved in a terrorism event. 
So it works..!!
But equally, in the past decades prior to ASIC intro there were none either.
Equally bizarre is that folk who drive 20 tonne trucks don't have to have one.
And in the States, home of 9/11 the GA pilot fraternity were asked to be part of the security solution, not deemed to be part of the security problem.!
But alas the Rum Corps in Regulatastan couldnt handle the US approach, it would give them no control, hence yet another bureaucracy; growing and wasting... as they do.
OK if anyone does have to have a security check, how about a continuous clearance card...invalidated on any breach*.
Renewals is just a $$s pick up to pay the wages,bonuses, perks etc.
* should you plunge yr aircraft into side of a building and break a few windows this card will be cancelled.
To get more flying hours and experience for PPLs...the lesser costs of RAA and self maintained aircraft is the only solution. VH PPLs are just shot down because of the costs of insurance, maintenance shops and parts mark-ups...hence RAA, SAAA and etc.
Basic maintenance of your own aeroplane should be a part of learning to fly, just like in the good old days when maintenance DIY was a must.
Perhaps its time to revisit and revise Schedule 8 to allow more to be done by owners/ PPLs to help keep costs in check. Its not rocket science.
So it works..!!But equally, in the past decades prior to ASIC intro there were none either.
Equally bizarre is that folk who drive 20 tonne trucks don't have to have one.
And in the States, home of 9/11 the GA pilot fraternity were asked to be part of the security solution, not deemed to be part of the security problem.!
But alas the Rum Corps in Regulatastan couldnt handle the US approach, it would give them no control, hence yet another bureaucracy; growing and wasting... as they do.
OK if anyone does have to have a security check, how about a continuous clearance card...invalidated on any breach*.
Renewals is just a $$s pick up to pay the wages,bonuses, perks etc.
* should you plunge yr aircraft into side of a building and break a few windows this card will be cancelled.
To get more flying hours and experience for PPLs...the lesser costs of RAA and self maintained aircraft is the only solution. VH PPLs are just shot down because of the costs of insurance, maintenance shops and parts mark-ups...hence RAA, SAAA and etc.
Basic maintenance of your own aeroplane should be a part of learning to fly, just like in the good old days when maintenance DIY was a must.
Perhaps its time to revisit and revise Schedule 8 to allow more to be done by owners/ PPLs to help keep costs in check. Its not rocket science.
Like all forms of security it's only as secure/good as the weakest link. The ASIC is just a bureaucratic machine that keeps people employed & makes the idiot rule makers feel good therefore justifying their shallow jobs. It has zero effect where security is concerned it only causes grief & suspicion!
Take Tulla for EG. This place is a joke!!! Has miles of chain-mess fence around it of which a good proportion is obscured by native trees/plants put there for aesthetics when it was built. Any fool can get Airside with just a cheap $2 pair of wire cutters at night as it's pitch black in places to the Nth of the drome well hidden behind trees
Dozens of cars park right opposite these accessible area's on the grass/dirt off the side of the road awaiting their friends/family to arrive on a flight, no one would know who's who in cars out there of a night time, terrorists would have a field day!
Here's a typical day that had me really bemused. At YMAY one fine sunny day years ago doing a non urgent retrieval in the old Beech. Had to park right outside the new terminal (new back then). The KFC machine stuck out like a dogs dick & I couldn't be mistaken as I/we had to wear 'monkey suits' with the appropriate badges showing whom I/we where. I finally got into the terminal to use the loo's & buy a drink awaiting the patient & para's. The security goon/s could obviously see who I was as they couldn't miss the noise of the KFC machine when I arrived. I found my way accidentally into a 'secure' area trying to get back out to the plane, result??................I was 'caught' & showed zero respect despite having the oll knowing all useless ASIC dangling from my monkey suit, yep the ASIC sure is useful......for food discounts only !!!!
Don't get me started on the total idiotic requirement to go thru screening on the way to the crew briefing room!My fold-able umbrella in the bottom of my fright bag (which periodically get pulled out for inspection) has huge potential to Mame & kill providing I throw the cockpit crash axe out the window as that could really cause an injury......to me!!
'Dick' this subject comes up from time to time (the usefulness or lack thereof) of the ASIC. You of all people should know about such matters than us mere mortals who have had very little involvement in aviation at the bottom.
Wmk2
Take Tulla for EG. This place is a joke!!! Has miles of chain-mess fence around it of which a good proportion is obscured by native trees/plants put there for aesthetics when it was built. Any fool can get Airside with just a cheap $2 pair of wire cutters at night as it's pitch black in places to the Nth of the drome well hidden behind trees
Dozens of cars park right opposite these accessible area's on the grass/dirt off the side of the road awaiting their friends/family to arrive on a flight, no one would know who's who in cars out there of a night time, terrorists would have a field day!Here's a typical day that had me really bemused. At YMAY one fine sunny day years ago doing a non urgent retrieval in the old Beech. Had to park right outside the new terminal (new back then). The KFC machine stuck out like a dogs dick & I couldn't be mistaken as I/we had to wear 'monkey suits' with the appropriate badges showing whom I/we where. I finally got into the terminal to use the loo's & buy a drink awaiting the patient & para's. The security goon/s could obviously see who I was as they couldn't miss the noise of the KFC machine when I arrived. I found my way accidentally into a 'secure' area trying to get back out to the plane, result??................I was 'caught' & showed zero respect despite having the oll knowing all useless ASIC dangling from my monkey suit, yep the ASIC sure is useful......for food discounts only !!!!
Don't get me started on the total idiotic requirement to go thru screening on the way to the crew briefing room!
My fold-able umbrella in the bottom of my fright bag (which periodically get pulled out for inspection) has huge potential to Mame & kill providing I throw the cockpit crash axe out the window as that could really cause an injury......to me!!'Dick' this subject comes up from time to time (the usefulness or lack thereof) of the ASIC. You of all people should know about such matters than us mere mortals who have had very little involvement in aviation at the bottom.
Wmk2
Dick
Very valid question. Someone show us the safety benefits !!
Dick you are just the man to lead a campaign to have this ridiculous impost of time and money removed. Or as someone else said at least made renewable every 5 or 10 years so the impost is not so bad.
Pay the $216, pay for the passport photos, go bug a JP - Every 2 years. For what?
All a complete waste. Every pimple face 16 year old at Maccas at the big terminals has one. Somehow the "security" of having an ASIC is diluted IMHO.
Cheers
PS - Don't expect ANYTHING in Rocky !!
Very valid question. Someone show us the safety benefits !!
Dick you are just the man to lead a campaign to have this ridiculous impost of time and money removed. Or as someone else said at least made renewable every 5 or 10 years so the impost is not so bad.
Pay the $216, pay for the passport photos, go bug a JP - Every 2 years. For what?
All a complete waste. Every pimple face 16 year old at Maccas at the big terminals has one. Somehow the "security" of having an ASIC is diluted IMHO.
Cheers
PS - Don't expect ANYTHING in Rocky !!
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Since when have CAsA, Dotars or any of them been interested in "safety".
Their only focus is $$$$$ and how much of it they can fleece us poor suckers out of. Safety benefit??.haw haw, I'll bet you it was never even discussed.
Love to know who the shareholders are of these companies that process our ASIC applications or provide airport security, which in itself creates a security risk. May answer why they exist.
Try terminal two Syd. 6am most mornings, the sheep pens in front of the Xray machines creates a target rich environment for your friendly local suicide bomber to wipe out three or four hundred all penned up nicely in a tight compact group, and jeez he could get into the middle of that group without passing any form of security.
Their only focus is $$$$$ and how much of it they can fleece us poor suckers out of. Safety benefit??.haw haw, I'll bet you it was never even discussed.
Love to know who the shareholders are of these companies that process our ASIC applications or provide airport security, which in itself creates a security risk. May answer why they exist.
Try terminal two Syd. 6am most mornings, the sheep pens in front of the Xray machines creates a target rich environment for your friendly local suicide bomber to wipe out three or four hundred all penned up nicely in a tight compact group, and jeez he could get into the middle of that group without passing any form of security.
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What I don't understand is having to get a jp to resign for my passport and drivers Licence which haven't changed in the last two years to be re issued with a new card not to mention the time that I wasted running around trying to sort all the paperwork out
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it was one of labors stupid ideas
Over to you peterc0000000005
Well folks, we now have a federal government that is looking to cut the cost of bureaucracy, write to your MP and the transport minister and express your thoughts on the matter. I don't think they read PPRuNe much.
ASIC – what measurable safety benefit?
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 15th Oct 2013 at 07:00.