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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 3rd Apr 2014, 16:14
  #101 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Perth
Age: 35
Posts: 6
Hi all,


Another long time listener first time caller.

My question is what are the first job options for somebody based in Perth, and what is the expect starting wage (p.a.)?

From what I have gathered thus far its circa 30k and job options are charter or instructor? I would love to go up north but having a wife and two kids limits how willing to relocate I would otherwise be.

I am still a looooong way from being able to make the switch from FIFO to flying I am just trying to get an idea on how bad the pay is going to be so I can set up to weather the storm of the first few years.

Thanks in advance
Slameye is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2014, 01:31
  #102 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 955
If you really can't leave Perth I'd say for the first year or two your options are solely instructing. I don't think any of the Perth charter companies take 200 hour pilots (who aren't also instructors to work in their flying school). If you can relocate your family further North you'd open up your options.

Wage of 30k? At best. It really depends, some people go straight on full time and earn more, most spend a year or two (or three!!) on casual and would earn that, sometimes less.

I have a lot of respect for the guys who do GA with a family. I found it hard enough to support 1 single person let alone a whole mob!
mcgrath50 is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2014, 15:14
  #103 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Perth
Age: 35
Posts: 6
Cheers for the reply mcgrath50,

Instructing doesnt seem too bad I am a Cert IV trainer and assessor and I really enjoy the work 30k is do-able (my wife can always get a job as well) I will just need to set myself up financially before I make the switch.

When you say further north where do you mean broom ect?
Slameye is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2014, 03:17
  #104 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 955
Yeah anywhere in the tropics as a general rule. Kimberley, NT, FNQ. Which is the best one to go to changes each year. Darwin sounded extremely busy last year but Broome was relatively empty. This year Broome is packed with pilots looking for work. Plus it depends what companies are doing, expanding, contracting, going to an all turbine fleet etc.

Where to choose to set up camp is a much debated topic. The method I recommend is pick a town you would like to live in that has companies you'd like to work for. The lifestyle of the town is important as it may be months before you get a flying gig.

China Southern out of Jandakot may be a way to go for you, it is a sausage factory and no one I know loved their time there but it served a purpose, relatively steady income, lots of hours and relatively quick progression to multis if you stick around.

There's no right way to go about this, got to pick what's best for you and your dependants and have a bit of luck along the way!
mcgrath50 is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2014, 12:45
  #105 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,166
Talked to an experienced pilot that recently went to Broome to look for work. He was informed by one operator that he must be a "resident" of Broome for several months before being considered even for an interview. In other words he must live in Broome, find his own work and after about six months he maybe considered for an interview for a job flying a single.

It just goes to show that there really is such a vast oversupply of unemployed pilots that operators can afford to lay down ridiculous criteria such as that above. Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?
Centaurus is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:10
  #106 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,413
Thumbs down

Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?
1/. Statistically, the newbie is probably from Mosman or Toorak and doesn't believe in unions

2/. If the newbie is a member, but is not employed by any flying organisation (as a pilot or otherwise), what business is it of the AFAP?

3/. Many is the newbie who arrives in remote town and finds the locals don't smell nice and their stuff has been stolen 3 times in the first week and it's all a bit lonely and I don't like it. So I'm leaving. It would be a pity to give this guy a job and have him slink off after 4 weeks.

4/. There are plenty of guys who take it all in their stride, become a part of the town they chose to target, learn the local businesses and people and tourist attractions, and get to know a few pilots as well. If I was a Chief Pilot I would be looking at these guys for my next recruit before I looked at the kid who just stepped off the burner from Sydney with brand new Aviators and a pile of resumes in his hand.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2014, 22:59
  #107 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 955

I was told a similar thing when I was job hunting although it was more "It will increase your chances greatly if you were to set up in town."

It's a case of supply and demand. Why would an operator call a guy for an interview who has passed through and is now in Darwin when there are 30+ guys living in town with similar experience. As I'm sure you know most GA companies don't plan staff levels well and need the new pilot yesterday.
mcgrath50 is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2014, 02:41
  #108 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: FNQ
Posts: 25
Hour Building

Hey guys / gals out there hour building

I have a very well priced C152 (NVFR!) based at YMMB.

Charged on airswitch at as low as $150/hr for block hour purchances

Pm for more info
Elevator Driver is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2014, 05:55
  #109 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cans
Posts: 117
Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?
I'm not sure why AFAP would take umbrage with preferencing people whom are established and living in town over those that aren't

Horatio, I haven't met any newbies up here from mossman or toorak yet, plenty from the western and inner west in sydney, and a bunch from perth. I'm not currently a member of AFAP but will consider it when I get a job, the correct union for me currently is the SDA but there isn't a hope in hell of me joining them after the WA senate debacle.

In the last few months I have seen all types of wannabes here in Broome, those that have literally come for 2 days to do the rounds then head back home to guys who are on their second dry season and still trying for a gig.

Talking to the CPs up here the main takeaways have been:
  • there are more pilots here than the last 2-3 years and the theory is that this is because people doing the degree courses with FeeHelp are now starting to complete their degrees
  • if you aren't in town you need to be very good or very lucky to get a job without being here (and out of the backpackers)

as for me, I'm pretty happy here, I have met some awesome people, I'm not working in an office for the first time in forever, the weather is nice, and thursdays at the roey is good for a giggle. I do want that first job but I'm willing to be a little patient to get it especially now that I have some cash coming in to support myself.

so far the records I have heard of for the quickest time to get a job was less than a week, and the lowest hours were a bit under 200, anything is possible and that is one of the things that does peoples heads in, they can't see the logic/method being used to pick the guys that are successful

Last edited by hillbillybob; 20th Apr 2014 at 06:18.
hillbillybob is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2014, 06:13
  #110 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: australia
Posts: 296
there are more pilots here than the last 2-3 years and the theory is that this is because people doing the degree courses with FeeHelp are now starting to complete their degrees
You will also find there are less guys/gals in the piston singles/light twins moving on to bigger & better things as many doors have closed with all the airlines (especially REX) now offering cadetships.

Now that REX is no longer recruiting a large number of crew from GA on an annual basis, there are far fewer opportunities for the guys up there to move onto. Unfortunately this is a fact of life now and I do not see it getting better any time in the foreseeable future.
mikewil is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2014, 10:10
  #111 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Skipton
Age: 16
Posts: 173
Both will take money from you in exchange for a license. None will teach you how to fly. Depends what sort of pilot you want to be really.
BlatantLiar is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2014, 10:59
  #112 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Straya
Posts: 103
Search function is your friend
DancingDog is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2014, 11:09
  #113 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,243
Well the CFI is still the same guy from 2007 so I doubt the spots on the RMIT animal have changed.

They no longer offer the one year diploma as virtually no one was finishing within 12 months. Now a 2 year course but apparently extending the time just extends the crap excuses for why you haven't finished.

On the other hand I hear Swinburne isn't getting rave reviews anymore either. Something to do with the take over not long ago and changes in management?

There are plenty of better schools you can attend. They won't have G1000 172's but they also wont be charging you over $350 an hour dual. They might even help you find your first job at the end!

PM me for a list of schools I would send friends to if I wanted them to stay my friends!!!
pilotchute is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2014, 14:08
  #114 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 56
Posts: 701
My son is most of the way thru the RMIT course and here are my observations:

1) The course seems to have improved greatly with a new course co-ordinator started about two years ago, about the same time it changed to a two year Associate Degree.

2) The place is quite structured and strict, with a big emphasis on check lists and SOPs. This may not suit all people, but is probably a good idea when you have a lot of young guys who sometimes have more hormones than good sense. flying small planes all over the country. It also builds good habits for pilots potentially headed for large organisations like airlines.

3) All of the planes are quite new. A mixture of C172, C182 and a Super Decathlon. Some of the planes have analogue instruments, some are G1000. Very nice fleet and very suitable for this type of training.

4) Over the years I'd heard some adverse things about the RMIT CFI, but my son's experience dealing with him has been very good and I now have a positive impression about him.

5) My son's first instructor at RMIT was a disaster, but he spoke to course co-ordinator and got a new instructor who has been excellent. The new instructor was previously a Qantas LAME and is one of the best instructors I've met in the past twenty years.

6) I've met half a dozen RMIT instructors and they all seem pretty decent and positive about the place.

7) Training at RAAF Williams Point Cook means there are great resources, with massive and good quality runways right next to a variety of controlled airspace environments. The RMIT buildings are very good, but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food.

8) My son did his PPL at a larger GA school Moorabbin before starting at RMIT and went straight into second year. In hindsight this saved quite a bit of cash and gave him exposure to different environments which has proved valuable.

9) I can notice a difference in my son's flying. He has a much more professional approach which shows in in areas like pre-flight preparation, radio calls, circuit procedures etc.

10) In summary, it's a fairly tough course that needs a bit of dedication and hard work, but the facilities and training are very good. Junior is enjoying the course, making good progress and has made some good mates.
peterc005 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2014, 01:47
  #115 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Straya
Posts: 103
Just a word of warning, take what peterc005 says with a grain of salt. He's pretty infamous around here for posting unpaid ads for big university flying schools
DancingDog is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2014, 02:12
  #116 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 56
Posts: 4,241
"but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food."

I hope that was supposed to be a joke ?

All of a couple of kms at most, that is if you don't take your food
with you in the morning !
500N is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2014, 02:30
  #117 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the detent
Posts: 517
probably about as valid a comment as:
with massive and good quality runways
Yeah, because there are plenty of those typically in your first 1000 hours of GA.
kingRB is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2014, 03:25
  #118 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 56
Posts: 701
@Alex3008 - I think two years for completion is possible, but a lot of it comes down to motivation and being organised.

Generally the mature-age students with some aviation experience do better than schools leavers because they able to focus better.

My suggestion is to try and do at least your BAK and maybe PPL theory exams before you start. You'd get Recognition for Prior Learning (RPL) and would save time and fees.

I've known a lot of people who've been through the Swinburne courses and have a favourable impression, although I've heard that a combination of the OAA/CAE ownership changes and too many students means it can be a bit disorganised and requires push to get through.

One problem with all integrated courses is that people run out of funding before completion because the training takes longer than the curriculum. My suggestion is be organised and do as much pre-preparation as possible to get thru in the minimum time.

A lot of the aviation training experience depends on the individual instructors, and this is universal across all schools. If you are not happy with progress with one instructor, try a different one. One thing I like about RMIT is that students generally have one primary and a secondary instructor, which should make the training more cohesive.

I've been encouraging Junior to do his IREX and ATPL theory with Lionel Taylor at Moorabbin to save on fees and broaden his experience.
peterc005 is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2014, 03:31
  #119 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 139
Why don't you push junior to self study the IREX and ATPLs?

Saves even more cost, teaches him an important life skill and really, they aren't that difficult.
JustJoinedToSearch is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2014, 04:53
  #120 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 127
Best flight training company at Jandakot?

Hi All,

A friend of mine is looking into undertaking his PPL and maybe a CPL at Jandakot.

There are a number of operators there, such as Royal Aero Club of WA, Air Australia International, ACFT, Thunderbird Aviation Academy, Jandakot Flight Centre, but I'm seeking recommendations on which is the best.

Also, does it matter much if the company uses older-technology aircraft?

I've tried searching the forum regarding this, but the search function seems to be faulty at the moment.

Thanks for your help.

David Eyre is offline  

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