Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Joined: Oct 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
CPL in New Zealand
Hello
Looking for some advice on converting a UK PPL to a NZ PPL, and completing my CPL / MEIR in New Zealand.
Does anyone have recommendations for flight schools and any experience with this process?
When I try to convert the CPL/MEIR back to the UK CAA, are there any issues with doing this or will it be recognised without any further skills test needed?
Any other guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks
Looking for some advice on converting a UK PPL to a NZ PPL, and completing my CPL / MEIR in New Zealand.
Does anyone have recommendations for flight schools and any experience with this process?
When I try to convert the CPL/MEIR back to the UK CAA, are there any issues with doing this or will it be recognised without any further skills test needed?
Any other guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 29
Likes: 3
From: Australia
I’ll keep this in mind as looking to do ATPLs soon. Thanks
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Perth
Torres Strait Air Cadetship
Just about to start my flight training and I've stumbled on to the Torres Strait Air cadetship and I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on it as my options are either to apply for the cadetship or do my training in an integrated program with Airflite in Jandakot.
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
From: Paris
FIR positions Australia
Hello guys,
I am planning to do a bachelor of aviation CPL and I was wondering if finding a first flight instructor job is as tough as I red on other PPRUNE Topics. After graduating and having only 200 flight hours, CPL, FIR, MEP and IR I won’t be competitive that’s a fact and I know it unfortunatly. I did see that there are some positions available though ; I have been looking actively after those positions on recruitment websites those lasts months as if I just graduated and saw maybe 10 to 15 available positions.
So how much time y’all expect for finding a first job with such a CV ??
thanks y’all and wish you a good day,
Vlad
I am planning to do a bachelor of aviation CPL and I was wondering if finding a first flight instructor job is as tough as I red on other PPRUNE Topics. After graduating and having only 200 flight hours, CPL, FIR, MEP and IR I won’t be competitive that’s a fact and I know it unfortunatly. I did see that there are some positions available though ; I have been looking actively after those positions on recruitment websites those lasts months as if I just graduated and saw maybe 10 to 15 available positions.
So how much time y’all expect for finding a first job with such a CV ??
thanks y’all and wish you a good day,
Vlad
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,698
Likes: 792
From: 3rd rock from the sun
Please, for the sake of the industry, DON’T go and become a flying instructor for your first job. What valuable lessons could you possibly pass on apart from what’s in a textbook?
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 402
Likes: 371
From: Sydney
A Jnr Gr3 isn't going to be out on the line teaching Multi IFR. They're teaching ab initio. Explain to me precisely what benefit flying a 737/320 around from ILS to ILS provides in teaching someone visual attitude flying, using the rudder and managing a piston engine? In my day as the managing G1 in my workplace, I saw all types come and go. From instructing as a first job to heavy jet captains returning to the industry. There is zero correlation in competence. It was always, always down to the attitude of the candidate. The absolute worst instructor was an ex-saab driver with 4 figures in turboprops, who could not be told. His students failed left right and centre until the school wised up and turfed him.
A new instructor has just done 200 hours of flying in the same category of aircraft they'll be training in. All the sequences theyll be instructing (as a Jnr G3) are ones they have intimately familiar with, and have been practicing non stop since the beginning of their training. They are perfectly capable of delivering the syllabus and helping their students excel. Are they going to be as good as a seasoned experienced instructor? Of course not, but they'll be a ****load better than some muppet Ex-Saab scrub who flunked out of RPT to the only job he could find.
To the thread OP, don't listen to this garbage. If you want to instruct, go for it. Just remember that if you view it as nothing more than a transient stop on the way to something bigger and shirk putting in the effort, you are robbing someone else of their aviation dream. Put in the work, its a rewarding job.
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 61
Likes: 61
From: HKG
If the industry seriously wanted pilots with experience to become ab-initio instructors then the pay of an instructor would be well above a charter, turboprop or even airline pilot. But it isn’t. Until then it’ll be the domain of first job seekers looking to build up experience.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Likes: 39
In reality most schools will only employ G3 instructors they trained themselves (there are some exceptions). This makes it hard to get initial jobs. So if you find yourself in a class of people all doing an instructor rating ask how many instructors does this school need?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 215
Likes: 69
From: In God's Country
Totally agree with what das Uber Soldat has stated above - very well put!
There is definitely a place for junior pilots as Flight Instructors - but they must have a desire to teach & provide a service to those they teach. I find that experienced pilots (as Instructors) can bring good context to training for the "real world", whilst the experienced Instructors can fix the problems students have - quickly & with insight (ie remediate efficiently). The young / junior Instructors, despite their possible lack of practical context & flying experience, bring the enthusiasm that kindles the fire of the aviation dream - they represent the "achievable goal" that prospective CPL trainee wannabes can connect with at the early stages of their training.
Remember, the Instructor Rating is the one rating a pilot holds that will mess with other people's careers. What the Instructor does not teach that he should, or teaches that he should not - will potentially adversely impact on someone else's flying, either as a lost opportunity when they are not successful chasing that first job, or worse - should they ever find themselves in a situation for which they have not been adequately equipped...
So, if you have an altruistic streak & actually enjoy working with others - go for it, become an Instructor & welcome to the team (maybe drop in & speak to me - I'm always looking for the right people!). God knows that the industry needs dedicated Instructors & as already stated - the pay ain't great (I think that has less to do with individual flight school owners & more to do with the commercial realities of the "race to the bottom" caused by sausage factories - a discussion for another day!). However, if you're simply seeing it as a mechanism to watch the VDO roll over & put numbers in your logbook at someone else's expense - please don't get involved. Go to the NT like all the other lads / ladettes & chase the charter role.
There is definitely a place for junior pilots as Flight Instructors - but they must have a desire to teach & provide a service to those they teach. I find that experienced pilots (as Instructors) can bring good context to training for the "real world", whilst the experienced Instructors can fix the problems students have - quickly & with insight (ie remediate efficiently). The young / junior Instructors, despite their possible lack of practical context & flying experience, bring the enthusiasm that kindles the fire of the aviation dream - they represent the "achievable goal" that prospective CPL trainee wannabes can connect with at the early stages of their training.
Remember, the Instructor Rating is the one rating a pilot holds that will mess with other people's careers. What the Instructor does not teach that he should, or teaches that he should not - will potentially adversely impact on someone else's flying, either as a lost opportunity when they are not successful chasing that first job, or worse - should they ever find themselves in a situation for which they have not been adequately equipped...
So, if you have an altruistic streak & actually enjoy working with others - go for it, become an Instructor & welcome to the team (maybe drop in & speak to me - I'm always looking for the right people!). God knows that the industry needs dedicated Instructors & as already stated - the pay ain't great (I think that has less to do with individual flight school owners & more to do with the commercial realities of the "race to the bottom" caused by sausage factories - a discussion for another day!). However, if you're simply seeing it as a mechanism to watch the VDO roll over & put numbers in your logbook at someone else's expense - please don't get involved. Go to the NT like all the other lads / ladettes & chase the charter role.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
The ability to teach, to coach students from many different backgrounds to be the best they can be, to assess and build on competencies and exceptional people skills are some of the things that differentiate a great instructor from the clock-watchers and dinosaurs..
In my decades of experience (from my first job as..a flying instructor) the very worst ones are the ex airline, ATC or military ones. Sorry to say, they have a very different attitude to a Grade 3 who has a recent memory of what it is like to be in the student's seat in a little training aeroplane. Provided that Grade 3 hasn't been trained by a dinosaur and is a critical thinker.
There are great careers and many rewards in instructing if you hang in there and give yourself time to rise to the top of your game.
In my decades of experience (from my first job as..a flying instructor) the very worst ones are the ex airline, ATC or military ones. Sorry to say, they have a very different attitude to a Grade 3 who has a recent memory of what it is like to be in the student's seat in a little training aeroplane. Provided that Grade 3 hasn't been trained by a dinosaur and is a critical thinker.
There are great careers and many rewards in instructing if you hang in there and give yourself time to rise to the top of your game.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Even experienced ex military CFI can struggle in civilian teaching as there is a far greater spread of individual needs among the candidates. And the lower level of progression can frustrate them into being overbearing and sometimes irate at students, just like ex airline pilots who expect new ppl prospectives to progress like a new FO converting to type.
As said above, experience helps with the bag of tricks, but a good instructor is a good instructor, irrespective of background. The good instructor will only become better as they gain experience and hopefully have good guidance from an equally good mentor. I've met some great pilots in many different areas of aviation, most of them would make average instructors and some with awesome stick and rudder skills have been, or would make horrible instructors due to their lack of interpersonal skills. I've seen trainees give up because their instructor/trainer was so bad, some have been able to come back later with another person and kick on and realize the dream. Others leave forever shaken by the experience enough to not come back.
So if you want to instruct have at it, but don't do it for hour building, do it for the experience. And make sure you learn as much or more than the students as you go, then when you finish up instructing you will be a much better pilot for it.
As said above, experience helps with the bag of tricks, but a good instructor is a good instructor, irrespective of background. The good instructor will only become better as they gain experience and hopefully have good guidance from an equally good mentor. I've met some great pilots in many different areas of aviation, most of them would make average instructors and some with awesome stick and rudder skills have been, or would make horrible instructors due to their lack of interpersonal skills. I've seen trainees give up because their instructor/trainer was so bad, some have been able to come back later with another person and kick on and realize the dream. Others leave forever shaken by the experience enough to not come back.
So if you want to instruct have at it, but don't do it for hour building, do it for the experience. And make sure you learn as much or more than the students as you go, then when you finish up instructing you will be a much better pilot for it.
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Perth
Working on an Australian pilots licence or converting one to work overseas
Hi there,
I am currently halfway through an integrated cpl meir course.
i do not think i want to work in Australia though, i have looked and scoured the internet for advice on working in either Asia or Europe and have found useful material but nothing quite specific.
i have working rights in Europe, Australia and the UK, I don’t know if it’s worth it to go through and finish my licence to atpl level in Australia and would be happy to just convert my cpl to another country or continents or work over there on an endorsement for either cpl or atpl but I cannot find any definitive information on where I could work on either an endorsement and an equivalent medical, alternatively I would also convert my licence.
i know the process to do it in Europe is a very arduous task and can take over half a year or longer and don’t know if I could financially commit to that.
I have heard that you can work in Indonesia, Singapore and Hong Kong on an endorsement and a medical and an air law exam. Although I am not sure to the validity of these claims and am wondering if you awesome people can give me some advice on:
-working overseas with an Australian cpl or atpl without conversion
-converting an Australian cpl or atpl to an EASA or an asian countries licence
-time for conversion and financial commitments
-relevant authorities
-if I should just pause now and try and get into an overseas college if viable
-any other relevant information
very kind regards !
I am currently halfway through an integrated cpl meir course.
i do not think i want to work in Australia though, i have looked and scoured the internet for advice on working in either Asia or Europe and have found useful material but nothing quite specific.
i have working rights in Europe, Australia and the UK, I don’t know if it’s worth it to go through and finish my licence to atpl level in Australia and would be happy to just convert my cpl to another country or continents or work over there on an endorsement for either cpl or atpl but I cannot find any definitive information on where I could work on either an endorsement and an equivalent medical, alternatively I would also convert my licence.
i know the process to do it in Europe is a very arduous task and can take over half a year or longer and don’t know if I could financially commit to that.
I have heard that you can work in Indonesia, Singapore and Hong Kong on an endorsement and a medical and an air law exam. Although I am not sure to the validity of these claims and am wondering if you awesome people can give me some advice on:
-working overseas with an Australian cpl or atpl without conversion
-converting an Australian cpl or atpl to an EASA or an asian countries licence
-time for conversion and financial commitments
-relevant authorities
-if I should just pause now and try and get into an overseas college if viable
-any other relevant information
very kind regards !
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 176
Likes: 36
From: Melbourne
From: https://www.sfcpl.com/careersjandakot
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...
Upon completion of 30 months of service, SFC Flight Instructors will be offered an interview with Singapore Airlines Group for a Direct Entry Second Officer position on one of the fleets operated by the SIA Group.
Successful candidates will be moved to the SIA Group after a minimum of 3.5 years of service with SFC (subject to terms and conditions) for type-rating conversion and initial operating experience, and will be appointed as First Officers on completion.
...
*********************************************************
Let us know how you go.
Good luck !
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Sydney Bankstown Flight School Recommendations
Hi all,
Info on here seems to mostly be from a good few years ago so I'm looking for flight school recommendations at Bankstown in Sydney to get a CPL. I'm looking for somewhere I can fly a lot (4-6 days a week) but still be flexible with timings to a degree so not a Part 142 course. I'm leaning towards Australian Aerobatic Academy at the moment, has anyone studied their RPL, PPL or CPL there and would recommend?
Who are the "sausage factories" that I see so regularly mentioned here but not by name in Bankstown and should be avoided? Most of the recommendations on here seem to be for Bill Whitworth who seems to no longer be instructing or Curtis Aviation which is at Camden and too far away from where I currently stay.
TIA
Info on here seems to mostly be from a good few years ago so I'm looking for flight school recommendations at Bankstown in Sydney to get a CPL. I'm looking for somewhere I can fly a lot (4-6 days a week) but still be flexible with timings to a degree so not a Part 142 course. I'm leaning towards Australian Aerobatic Academy at the moment, has anyone studied their RPL, PPL or CPL there and would recommend?
Who are the "sausage factories" that I see so regularly mentioned here but not by name in Bankstown and should be avoided? Most of the recommendations on here seem to be for Bill Whitworth who seems to no longer be instructing or Curtis Aviation which is at Camden and too far away from where I currently stay.
TIA
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Hi all,
Info on here seems to mostly be from a good few years ago so I'm looking for flight school recommendations at Bankstown in Sydney to get a CPL. I'm looking for somewhere I can fly a lot (4-6 days a week) but still be flexible with timings to a degree so not a Part 142 course. I'm leaning towards Australian Aerobatic Academy at the moment, has anyone studied their RPL, PPL or CPL there and would recommend?
Who are the "sausage factories" that I see so regularly mentioned here but not by name in Bankstown and should be avoided? Most of the recommendations on here seem to be for Bill Whitworth who seems to no longer be instructing or Curtis Aviation which is at Camden and too far away from where I currently stay.
TIA
Info on here seems to mostly be from a good few years ago so I'm looking for flight school recommendations at Bankstown in Sydney to get a CPL. I'm looking for somewhere I can fly a lot (4-6 days a week) but still be flexible with timings to a degree so not a Part 142 course. I'm leaning towards Australian Aerobatic Academy at the moment, has anyone studied their RPL, PPL or CPL there and would recommend?
Who are the "sausage factories" that I see so regularly mentioned here but not by name in Bankstown and should be avoided? Most of the recommendations on here seem to be for Bill Whitworth who seems to no longer be instructing or Curtis Aviation which is at Camden and too far away from where I currently stay.
TIA
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 1
Likes: 1
From: Aus
The "sausage factories" tend to be those ones that have a Part 142 operation going on (SFC, Basair/Sydney Aviators). For me SFC wasn't flexible with my needs and tried to make me do all 7 CPL subjects again. I ended up at PFS which sadly closed. That said, spend a day and wonder into some of these places and have a chat. Like what 43Inches said, what works for one on here may not work for you. Then organise a TIF with the one that resonates with you the most.
I would also look at Warnervale (Central Coast Aero Club). I presume if Camden is too far, Warnervale may be an alright option. With Western Sydney coming alive, I'm not sure what's going to happen to flight training in Bankstown.
I would also look at Warnervale (Central Coast Aero Club). I presume if Camden is too far, Warnervale may be an alright option. With Western Sydney coming alive, I'm not sure what's going to happen to flight training in Bankstown.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
If you are still unsure after a TIF, then try a TIF at another option, there is no rule saying you then have to stay with that school or give up. The money you spend in the long run will make the money spent on a few trial flights with different schools seem tiny. The overall cost to a CPL is a huge sum of money, and it's your money, get the right foundations in aviation and you can save tens of thousands less than if you get it wrong. The first 20 hours will set you up for the next few thousand, and while you are always learning, getting the basics correct will make the rest much easier.
It's also amazing how many airline pilots make it to thousands of hours with poor techniques or understanding of what they are doing. Sure they are safe enough, but with the right coaching early they could have been much better.
It's also amazing how many airline pilots make it to thousands of hours with poor techniques or understanding of what they are doing. Sure they are safe enough, but with the right coaching early they could have been much better.
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 59
From: OZ
Hey Hup,
Why BK? Perhaps you would do well to consider CN. Yep, it's about an extra 30 minute drive but you're in the training area before you start and also your navs don't have the entry/exit from BK.
There are several reputable training organisations there so I suggest you have a look around. Just BTW I'm not connected with any of them but I fly from CN for a hobby.
Why BK? Perhaps you would do well to consider CN. Yep, it's about an extra 30 minute drive but you're in the training area before you start and also your navs don't have the entry/exit from BK.
There are several reputable training organisations there so I suggest you have a look around. Just BTW I'm not connected with any of them but I fly from CN for a hobby.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
There are a few pathways to CPL. Each school will tell you the one that will make the most money for THEM, not what is necessarily right for you. Keep an open mind and remember that all that glitters is not gold - including the epaulettes that the sausage factories like to put on people who are flying little two seaters.
