Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
I had a group of three guys who trained together, they all did their PPL tests in the same week and that weekend flew from Perth to the Birdsville races and back..
If you can't do that then you are not yet ready for PPL.
Everything you need to know is in the Part 61 Manual of Standards which presumably your instructor has made you familiar with?
If you can't do that then you are not yet ready for PPL.
Everything you need to know is in the Part 61 Manual of Standards which presumably your instructor has made you familiar with?
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,357
Likes: 125
From: Up yer nose, again.
.If you can't be bothered with that then maybe an aviation career is not the best for you.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 176
Likes: 36
From: Melbourne
ERSA, Country strip guide, NAIPS, EFB, are your friends, but also feel free to ask instructors, fellow pilots for advices.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
Unlike the USA where you are often greeted by a friendly truck with a "Follow Me" sign and you go and have a coffee while they refuel your aeroplane, in Australia, if you are lucky, you might see a willywilly in the distance.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 3
Likes: 2
From: Campsie, Sydney
I see no light at the end of the tunnel
(apologies for the pessimism but I really think aviation is in a bad place in aus)
I'm kind of at a breaking point,
for a long time now, ever since I was about 7 (I'm now 19) I was obsessed with aviation and wanted to become a pilot. I moved to Sydney in 2015, and after finishing year 12 in 2023 I started working for Rex as a bag chucker in February of 24. My goal was to earn enough to pay the upfront cost of starting the rex cadetship, then slave away to get good hours and eventually do something better. I only got to work there for half a year until they went broke, and the last thing I heard about the AAPA was that their building was being sold, but that was from a friend so idk. If anyone knows something about it please do share!
I basically procrastinated for the rest of the year and got into an unrelated Uni degree as a backup. Recently the passion came back to me and I started researching ways to get a CPL through different schools. This is what I've gathered:
Bankstown:
SFC and Basair - just want that sweet sweet vet loan money and are a complete scam, as you pay twice the money as in aeroclubs and have an indexing loan above your head for the majority of your life
Australian Aerobatic Academy - seems ok but their website doesn't provide a lot of info so I'll have to go visit them
There's other but their websites seem broken and idk if they even provide CPL training. (Please correct me if I'm wrong though.)
Also, with the construction of the western Sydney airport I assume some schools will close.
Camden:
Curtis aviation - heard good things from them but also something about it becoming worse after some instructor left (CFI probably)
altocap - haven't heard anything about them except all the google reviews talk about getting their FIR
Phoenix aero club - seem to offer some pretty good rates but very little info as well
Additionally, on this very thread I learned about the central coast aeroclub, which seems like a good place to learn but is quite a way's away.
The main problem for me, and I assume everyone getting pumped out of the sausage factories is finding a job. I spent a good part of the day looking through all the major job finding websites: Seek, Indeed, Jora, even LinkedIn, and the only positions I could find in Australia below 500 hours were two Cessna boat jobs in WA and SA, both of which asking for flying boat experience. Even the 500 hour jobs weren't plentiful, it's just pretty much Quantas and Rex looking for regional pilots.
The job market seems as dry as a lake in a desert, and yet when I went to talk to SFC, they were talking about a pilot shortage! How does that make any sense?
What I assume most people do is get their FIR and try to get their hours up that way while earning near minimum wage, which feels like an absolute pyramid scheme.
sorry for the rant, just really don't know what to do. Aviation is my passion, but it just seems like Australia doesn't want pilots. I'll be looking into international opportunities next.
I'm kind of at a breaking point,
for a long time now, ever since I was about 7 (I'm now 19) I was obsessed with aviation and wanted to become a pilot. I moved to Sydney in 2015, and after finishing year 12 in 2023 I started working for Rex as a bag chucker in February of 24. My goal was to earn enough to pay the upfront cost of starting the rex cadetship, then slave away to get good hours and eventually do something better. I only got to work there for half a year until they went broke, and the last thing I heard about the AAPA was that their building was being sold, but that was from a friend so idk. If anyone knows something about it please do share!
I basically procrastinated for the rest of the year and got into an unrelated Uni degree as a backup. Recently the passion came back to me and I started researching ways to get a CPL through different schools. This is what I've gathered:
Bankstown:
SFC and Basair - just want that sweet sweet vet loan money and are a complete scam, as you pay twice the money as in aeroclubs and have an indexing loan above your head for the majority of your life
Australian Aerobatic Academy - seems ok but their website doesn't provide a lot of info so I'll have to go visit them
There's other but their websites seem broken and idk if they even provide CPL training. (Please correct me if I'm wrong though.)
Also, with the construction of the western Sydney airport I assume some schools will close.
Camden:
Curtis aviation - heard good things from them but also something about it becoming worse after some instructor left (CFI probably)
altocap - haven't heard anything about them except all the google reviews talk about getting their FIR
Phoenix aero club - seem to offer some pretty good rates but very little info as well
Additionally, on this very thread I learned about the central coast aeroclub, which seems like a good place to learn but is quite a way's away.
The main problem for me, and I assume everyone getting pumped out of the sausage factories is finding a job. I spent a good part of the day looking through all the major job finding websites: Seek, Indeed, Jora, even LinkedIn, and the only positions I could find in Australia below 500 hours were two Cessna boat jobs in WA and SA, both of which asking for flying boat experience. Even the 500 hour jobs weren't plentiful, it's just pretty much Quantas and Rex looking for regional pilots.
The job market seems as dry as a lake in a desert, and yet when I went to talk to SFC, they were talking about a pilot shortage! How does that make any sense?
What I assume most people do is get their FIR and try to get their hours up that way while earning near minimum wage, which feels like an absolute pyramid scheme.
sorry for the rant, just really don't know what to do. Aviation is my passion, but it just seems like Australia doesn't want pilots. I'll be looking into international opportunities next.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 215
Likes: 69
From: In God's Country
Maybe you need to look at options to complete your training away from centres such as Sydney…
That way, you can train with someone who can perhaps legitimately either give you a start in the industry following training or at the very least steer you towards those who can with decent contacts.
These people are out there, you’re probably not looking hard enough or in the right places…
That way, you can train with someone who can perhaps legitimately either give you a start in the industry following training or at the very least steer you towards those who can with decent contacts.
These people are out there, you’re probably not looking hard enough or in the right places…
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Likes: 39
The jobs are out there for beginners but they won’t be advertised as the companies already have enough people knocking on their door. Wollongong has good schools, Central coast or as posted above plenty of schools away from Sydney if you wanted to relocate. Aviation is a career that means you could have to move around a lot so get used to it early.
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Aus
If you have to stay close, Sydney flight training are a good bunch with a good mix of well looked after machines with committed instructors that aren't just there to milk you. Although as mentioned previously if you have the means go somewhere outside the basin, as it will save you time and money. There is a good operator up in Cessnock where their IR instructors are also IFR chieftain/caravan drivers, at reasonable rates too, so check them out.
As for low hour jobs, IF they are posted, they might be on AFAP but most likely just on the operator's own facebook page.
As for low hour jobs, IF they are posted, they might be on AFAP but most likely just on the operator's own facebook page.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
I'd say continue with your other degree, once completed get a good job then pay for your flying as you go on a non-integrated course, get command time rather than a swag of ratings if you want your resume to stand out. First jobs don't need multi, instrument etc, spend the money building command time and getting interesting experience. Networking is the key and even bag chucking can lead to something, I got my first flying job after meeting an employer when I was a gopher in a hangar, sweeping the floor.
Another bit of advice, words like "passion" and "obsession" don't really belong in an environment when you are operating heavy machinery. The industry needs pragmatic people, not dreamers. Good luck!
Another bit of advice, words like "passion" and "obsession" don't really belong in an environment when you are operating heavy machinery. The industry needs pragmatic people, not dreamers. Good luck!
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 3
Likes: 2
From: Campsie, Sydney
I agree with what the others said, I think a regional aero club would be better, or something small in Sydney.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 8
Likes: 3
From: Sydney
If you have to stay close, Sydney flight training are a good bunch with a good mix of well looked after machines with committed instructors that aren't just there to milk you. Although as mentioned previously if you have the means go somewhere outside the basin, as it will save you time and money. There is a good operator up in Cessnock where their IR instructors are also IFR chieftain/caravan drivers, at reasonable rates too, so check them out.
As for low hour jobs, IF they are posted, they might be on AFAP but most likely just on the operator's own facebook page.
As for low hour jobs, IF they are posted, they might be on AFAP but most likely just on the operator's own facebook page.
Joined: Feb 2017
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 545
Likes: 190
From: Sydney
FWIW I think the last time there was a change of CFI at Curtis Aviation was around 2001...
The best way to find out about a school is not by rumour or google reviews, go and visit them or give them a ring or email and ask if you can arrange a time to chat about what you want to achieve.
Different schools suit different people, even within a school you will find some instructors fit with you better than others. Best to find one that suits you and your aspirations.
Make up a list and try contacting them and see what they can offer and get a feel for how they suit you.
.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Yes, flying training is one on one, so a very personal experience. Reviews are generally manipulated and on forums like this you don't know who is working for x flying school and being positive or negative about another operator, or, who is genuine about their experience. The only real way to find out is to go in person to a number of schools and chat to the instructors, maybe even students, watch their operation for a while to see how the instructors and students interact and have a tour of the facilities and aircraft. After doing that at a few different places you can make your own decision about what is best for you. If you are the type of person that doesn't like being independent and a bit of footwork, showing initiative, to see what works, then maybe aviation is not the career for you. If you want to spend the amounts involved in gaining a commercial licence and don't want to do the leg work or research yourself, I could probably offer you a cheap deal on a bridge as well.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Singapore
43 y/o from Singapore pursuing childhood dream of becoming a pilot.
Hi everyone,
I’m a 43-year-old from Singapore, and it’s been my childhood dream to become a pilot. After years of running my own business (which is now fully automated and doesn’t require my physical presence), I finally have the funds and time to pursue this dream. I’m planning to take my Commercial Pilot License in Perth, Australia, but I’m facing a big challenge, building the required flight hours after the course. Here’s my situation: After completing my CPL, I’ll need to clock 1,500 flight hours to qualify for a job with major airlines. In Singapore, it’s almost impossible to build these hours because the country is so small, and flight schools often send students overseas (like Perth) to complete their flying. I can’t stay in Perth to accumulate hours because I won’t have a working visa after my student visa expires. My question is:What are the chances of companies in Australia or other parts of the world hire me or sponsor a working visa to build my flight hours? Are there pathways for international pilots to gain experience, or am I stuck in a catch-22 situation? Some additional context: I’m fully self-funded and willing to relocate if necessary. I’m aware of the challenges of starting a pilot career later in life, but I’m determined to make this work. I’m open to any advice, whether it’s about finding flight instructor roles, charter opportunities, or other ways to build hours.
I'm not looking to ROI, I just want to experience flying the big jets!!! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Are there regions or companies that are more open to hiring international pilots for entry-level roles? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
I’m a 43-year-old from Singapore, and it’s been my childhood dream to become a pilot. After years of running my own business (which is now fully automated and doesn’t require my physical presence), I finally have the funds and time to pursue this dream. I’m planning to take my Commercial Pilot License in Perth, Australia, but I’m facing a big challenge, building the required flight hours after the course. Here’s my situation: After completing my CPL, I’ll need to clock 1,500 flight hours to qualify for a job with major airlines. In Singapore, it’s almost impossible to build these hours because the country is so small, and flight schools often send students overseas (like Perth) to complete their flying. I can’t stay in Perth to accumulate hours because I won’t have a working visa after my student visa expires. My question is:What are the chances of companies in Australia or other parts of the world hire me or sponsor a working visa to build my flight hours? Are there pathways for international pilots to gain experience, or am I stuck in a catch-22 situation? Some additional context: I’m fully self-funded and willing to relocate if necessary. I’m aware of the challenges of starting a pilot career later in life, but I’m determined to make this work. I’m open to any advice, whether it’s about finding flight instructor roles, charter opportunities, or other ways to build hours.
I'm not looking to ROI, I just want to experience flying the big jets!!! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Are there regions or companies that are more open to hiring international pilots for entry-level roles? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Dunnunda Fleet Manager
Joined: Jan 1996
Posts: 8,203
Likes: 887
From: Utopia
You need to take up your issue with an Australian Migration Lawyer. If you undertake and complete an aviation tertiary degree in Australia you may be able to obtain a bridging visa enabling you to work and gain experience in Australia for a limited time. I doubt as a newly minted pilot you will be permitted to remain long enough to accumulate 1,500 hours. Bear in mind there are hundreds of other Australian newly graduated pilots also looking for work and you may find it extremely difficult to find pilot employment.
The eternal new pilot dilemma - how to get to 400 hours for employment opportunities and how to get to 1,500 hours for possible airline employment. There is no guaranteed pathway and the road is tough. Many make it; some fail. As a low hour pilot graduate there is no possibility of employer sponsorship in Australia.
I would have thought you may be better off undertaking an airline cadet program with an airline that is able to provide employment opportunities at the completion of training? There are airline specific colleges in Australia, China Southern in West Australia and Qantas in Queensland. The Singapore Airforce is also based in Western Australia and Queensland. Various Australian Universities offer aviation tertiary degrees.
It sounds like you need to undertake a lot more research on temporary migration to determine a viable career path.
The eternal new pilot dilemma - how to get to 400 hours for employment opportunities and how to get to 1,500 hours for possible airline employment. There is no guaranteed pathway and the road is tough. Many make it; some fail. As a low hour pilot graduate there is no possibility of employer sponsorship in Australia.
I would have thought you may be better off undertaking an airline cadet program with an airline that is able to provide employment opportunities at the completion of training? There are airline specific colleges in Australia, China Southern in West Australia and Qantas in Queensland. The Singapore Airforce is also based in Western Australia and Queensland. Various Australian Universities offer aviation tertiary degrees.
It sounds like you need to undertake a lot more research on temporary migration to determine a viable career path.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Vietnam
CASA ATPL for a CPL Holder with A32F TR hours
Hi fellow pilots,
I have my CASA CPL with 1.500hrs on-type A32F. Just wondering if it is still full-course ATP (all the subjects) that I have to take exams for the ATPL, or is there any exemption in this case?
The reason I’m asking is despite I’m not flying in Australia, yet I had always wanted to have all CASA licenses which I didn’t have chance to take the ATPL right after my CPL back then. But of course, it’s the matter of how much time and effort for the ATPL as if no exemption it might become too difficult for a foreign pilot.
Many thanks guys!
I have my CASA CPL with 1.500hrs on-type A32F. Just wondering if it is still full-course ATP (all the subjects) that I have to take exams for the ATPL, or is there any exemption in this case?
The reason I’m asking is despite I’m not flying in Australia, yet I had always wanted to have all CASA licenses which I didn’t have chance to take the ATPL right after my CPL back then. But of course, it’s the matter of how much time and effort for the ATPL as if no exemption it might become too difficult for a foreign pilot.
Many thanks guys!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
The only way to get exemptions for ATPL subjects is to hold an overseas ATPL that you are able to convert to an Australian one, then it will depend on where its from, and you will still have to do some subjects like airlaw to convert. Having time on large aircraft as a co-pilot means nothing except the aeronautical experience towards the licence.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 602
From: Australia
Hi everyone,
I’m a 43-year-old from Singapore, and it’s been my childhood dream to become a pilot. After years of running my own business (which is now fully automated and doesn’t require my physical presence), I finally have the funds and time to pursue this dream. I’m planning to take my Commercial Pilot License in Perth, Australia, but I’m facing a big challenge, building the required flight hours after the course. Here’s my situation: After completing my CPL, I’ll need to clock 1,500 flight hours to qualify for a job with major airlines. In Singapore, it’s almost impossible to build these hours because the country is so small, and flight schools often send students overseas (like Perth) to complete their flying. I can’t stay in Perth to accumulate hours because I won’t have a working visa after my student visa expires. My question is:What are the chances of companies in Australia or other parts of the world hire me or sponsor a working visa to build my flight hours? Are there pathways for international pilots to gain experience, or am I stuck in a catch-22 situation? Some additional context: I’m fully self-funded and willing to relocate if necessary. I’m aware of the challenges of starting a pilot career later in life, but I’m determined to make this work. I’m open to any advice, whether it’s about finding flight instructor roles, charter opportunities, or other ways to build hours.
I'm not looking to ROI, I just want to experience flying the big jets!!! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Are there regions or companies that are more open to hiring international pilots for entry-level roles? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
I’m a 43-year-old from Singapore, and it’s been my childhood dream to become a pilot. After years of running my own business (which is now fully automated and doesn’t require my physical presence), I finally have the funds and time to pursue this dream. I’m planning to take my Commercial Pilot License in Perth, Australia, but I’m facing a big challenge, building the required flight hours after the course. Here’s my situation: After completing my CPL, I’ll need to clock 1,500 flight hours to qualify for a job with major airlines. In Singapore, it’s almost impossible to build these hours because the country is so small, and flight schools often send students overseas (like Perth) to complete their flying. I can’t stay in Perth to accumulate hours because I won’t have a working visa after my student visa expires. My question is:What are the chances of companies in Australia or other parts of the world hire me or sponsor a working visa to build my flight hours? Are there pathways for international pilots to gain experience, or am I stuck in a catch-22 situation? Some additional context: I’m fully self-funded and willing to relocate if necessary. I’m aware of the challenges of starting a pilot career later in life, but I’m determined to make this work. I’m open to any advice, whether it’s about finding flight instructor roles, charter opportunities, or other ways to build hours.
I'm not looking to ROI, I just want to experience flying the big jets!!! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Are there regions or companies that are more open to hiring international pilots for entry-level roles? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Hello, does anyone know the rate of acceptance for the rex cadetship program? I am currently in year 12 and I want to know how I could prepare myself to have the best chances at making it into the cadetship program, how much would things like previous flight experience and a good ATAR help?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 1,183
From: Aus
Hello, does anyone know the rate of acceptance for the rex cadetship program? I am currently in year 12 and I want to know how I could prepare myself to have the best chances at making it into the cadetship program, how much would things like previous flight experience and a good ATAR help?