Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
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Aviation Career Advice
Hi all,
I am a year 10 student and wish to become a pilot. Currently, I have taken 2 flying lessons and have absolutely loved it. Would you guys recommend I get a CPL straight after I finish school and become a pilot the traditional way or go through a cadetship?
Any help appreciated.
I am a year 10 student and wish to become a pilot. Currently, I have taken 2 flying lessons and have absolutely loved it. Would you guys recommend I get a CPL straight after I finish school and become a pilot the traditional way or go through a cadetship?
Any help appreciated.
I’d advise talking to some Flight Instructors or CFIs at your local Aero Club for some advice. First see if you can get the medical done before committing.
Cadetships are super competitive and financially draining and not highly regarded on this forum going off discussion in the other forum. Traditional way is Flight Instructing then into Charter, Bush, Props, Regional, Airline.
Cadetships are super competitive and financially draining and not highly regarded on this forum going off discussion in the other forum. Traditional way is Flight Instructing then into Charter, Bush, Props, Regional, Airline.
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Definitely agreed with PoppaJo - get that class 1 medical ticked off.
Knowing there's a negative stigma attached to cadets is something to be aware of, but not something that should sway your decision.
Some Check & Trainers prefer teaching and upgrading cadets.
With a cadetship you slot into a system and it's all laid out for you. In G.A you are your own system, so you create your own opportunity.
With a cadetship contract you'll (generally) have all your costs and income laid out in front of you, all the way to an FO's and perhaps Captain's seat, so you can add and subtract numbers to come up with some rough final figures. In G.A. you can only do that retrospectively, aside from initial training costs.
Hope that helps.
Knowing there's a negative stigma attached to cadets is something to be aware of, but not something that should sway your decision.
Some Check & Trainers prefer teaching and upgrading cadets.
With a cadetship you slot into a system and it's all laid out for you. In G.A you are your own system, so you create your own opportunity.
With a cadetship contract you'll (generally) have all your costs and income laid out in front of you, all the way to an FO's and perhaps Captain's seat, so you can add and subtract numbers to come up with some rough final figures. In G.A. you can only do that retrospectively, aside from initial training costs.
Hope that helps.
You're right about being super competitive, they only take the top fraction of applicants, but you'll have zero chance of you never apply for one.
As far as financially draining? They do cost a percentage more than a standard CPL but that might be covered by HECS. Overall you'll make more within over the course of a career (in fact within a few years I'd say) due to higher seniority and the ability to move onto larger aircraft and higher pay quicker.
Luckily the combined weight of most of Australia's airlines that employ cadets overrule some anonymous posters on an internet forum. The fact is most airlines have current or past cadet programs, employ cadets and will continue to do so in the future. Moaning that they exist to take jobs that GA pilots are supposedly entitled to isn't going to make them go away.
As far as financially draining? They do cost a percentage more than a standard CPL but that might be covered by HECS. Overall you'll make more within over the course of a career (in fact within a few years I'd say) due to higher seniority and the ability to move onto larger aircraft and higher pay quicker.
Luckily the combined weight of most of Australia's airlines that employ cadets overrule some anonymous posters on an internet forum. The fact is most airlines have current or past cadet programs, employ cadets and will continue to do so in the future. Moaning that they exist to take jobs that GA pilots are supposedly entitled to isn't going to make them go away.
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Australia, NZ or the US for CPL training to airline career
Hi all, Im new here - thanks for having me. I'm hoping for some educated advice should you all be so kind as to read my novel here....
Here the scope... My wife and I are unsure where to start out with my career changing to aviation.... It is my goal to work for an airline and fly a jet. Please don't take my assumptions or semi educated guesses below as arrogance, we all need something to work towards and I believe in having a clear goal of where you want to be. I understand it is a huge commitment and a culling procedure, only the most committed and lucky too make it
.
I'm a New Zealand citizen, 30 years old, married to a US citizen, living in NZ. I have a Oil and Gas career already, it pays well and is stable, but it doesn't fill the soul. I hold a New Zealand CAA (civil aviation authority of NZ) PPL and I have 100 hours TT. I have 3/6 CPL exams completed all with +90% results. I woke up at 5am every day to study before work and sell studied the lot so far. My wife is open to living in NZ, Australia or moving back to the US.
Here are the options - that we know of:
1.Move to the US (my wife's home) mid 2018 (green card required - about 9 months process time. Undertake training to complete all certification including MEIR instructor at ATP flight school in the 6 month fast track Airline Preparation Course. Current zero to working for a regional is 2 years (18 months of instructing). I have a lot more info and have poured over forums for days to make sure there wasn't a typo, yes 6 months and this is the largest training fleet in the US. Cost $65k USD.
Upside: training is very fast, straight to Jet fleets, jobs a plenty (apparently), very nice family in the US, the wife would get to be with family (we want to start one soon too). It would be one heck of an adventure
Downside, Its a long long way home and a major cost. To get to a US major airline you need a bachelors degree, so would need to complete one part time (licences cross credit around 25% of the course). Add $50k USD and a lot of study in hotels, so takes total cost to $115k USD.
2. Remain in NZ (my home), finish up work, find a full-time course to finish my CPL studies (3 exams to go) then instrument, MEIR, instructors ratings etc. Cost, likely around $100k NZD through Christchurch Av institute or similar or maybe go to a Mom and Dad school and pay less? Total time, 18 months to 2 years...
Upside: I'm halfway there with the CPL studies already. I know the CAA system. I'd love to end up working for the countries airline, or even just flying for an airline here in NZ. I have NZ Electrical licences and could work part time if I had to to support if things were slower than expected.
Downside: The weather.... Shocking winter in the lower North... The aviation job market here is barren from what i read and am constantly told. I'm afraid of making such a big commitment and nothing coming of it in NZ.
3. Sell up and move to QLD Australia. We were there last week and visited Airways Aviation in the gold coast, took a trial flight (although I have a PPL already) out of the GC airport. Plan would be to get the PPL converted and train with Airways Aviation for Diploma CPL and Diploma IR. They have a program with SC University which allows you to credit your flying licenses completed with them as 1/3rd of a Bachelor of Business in Aviation. I would need to find an instructors course and finish that (perhaps 1 hour north in Brisbane). Total time 18 months to 2 years training. Cost is roughly $125k AUD including the degree.
Upside: I read that the Australian airlines are much nicer to work for than the US airlines and feel if i were lucky enough to get on with a company such as VA then there would actually be a chance of using the benefits of getting my wife up to the US to see her family (the US benefits are harder to use since the planes are jammed packed full nowadays). We love the climate in QLD, we love the beach and surfing.
Downside: I'm really unsure as to how hard the job market is, people say its bad to get started in Australia - is that still the case with the booming Asian aviation market? We would both be orphans (no family in Aus). We do have friends in the sunshine coast.
I think long term it would be better to aim for the NZ or Australian airline. However it takes a long time to get a start down here compared to the US at the moment.
Can anyone give me some help please?
Thanks a lot if you made it this far!
Here the scope... My wife and I are unsure where to start out with my career changing to aviation.... It is my goal to work for an airline and fly a jet. Please don't take my assumptions or semi educated guesses below as arrogance, we all need something to work towards and I believe in having a clear goal of where you want to be. I understand it is a huge commitment and a culling procedure, only the most committed and lucky too make it
. I'm a New Zealand citizen, 30 years old, married to a US citizen, living in NZ. I have a Oil and Gas career already, it pays well and is stable, but it doesn't fill the soul. I hold a New Zealand CAA (civil aviation authority of NZ) PPL and I have 100 hours TT. I have 3/6 CPL exams completed all with +90% results. I woke up at 5am every day to study before work and sell studied the lot so far. My wife is open to living in NZ, Australia or moving back to the US.
Here are the options - that we know of:
1.Move to the US (my wife's home) mid 2018 (green card required - about 9 months process time. Undertake training to complete all certification including MEIR instructor at ATP flight school in the 6 month fast track Airline Preparation Course. Current zero to working for a regional is 2 years (18 months of instructing). I have a lot more info and have poured over forums for days to make sure there wasn't a typo, yes 6 months and this is the largest training fleet in the US. Cost $65k USD.
Upside: training is very fast, straight to Jet fleets, jobs a plenty (apparently), very nice family in the US, the wife would get to be with family (we want to start one soon too). It would be one heck of an adventureDownside, Its a long long way home and a major cost. To get to a US major airline you need a bachelors degree, so would need to complete one part time (licences cross credit around 25% of the course). Add $50k USD and a lot of study in hotels, so takes total cost to $115k USD. 2. Remain in NZ (my home), finish up work, find a full-time course to finish my CPL studies (3 exams to go) then instrument, MEIR, instructors ratings etc. Cost, likely around $100k NZD through Christchurch Av institute or similar or maybe go to a Mom and Dad school and pay less? Total time, 18 months to 2 years...
Upside: I'm halfway there with the CPL studies already. I know the CAA system. I'd love to end up working for the countries airline, or even just flying for an airline here in NZ. I have NZ Electrical licences and could work part time if I had to to support if things were slower than expected.Downside: The weather.... Shocking winter in the lower North... The aviation job market here is barren from what i read and am constantly told. I'm afraid of making such a big commitment and nothing coming of it in NZ. 3. Sell up and move to QLD Australia. We were there last week and visited Airways Aviation in the gold coast, took a trial flight (although I have a PPL already) out of the GC airport. Plan would be to get the PPL converted and train with Airways Aviation for Diploma CPL and Diploma IR. They have a program with SC University which allows you to credit your flying licenses completed with them as 1/3rd of a Bachelor of Business in Aviation. I would need to find an instructors course and finish that (perhaps 1 hour north in Brisbane). Total time 18 months to 2 years training. Cost is roughly $125k AUD including the degree.
Upside: I read that the Australian airlines are much nicer to work for than the US airlines and feel if i were lucky enough to get on with a company such as VA then there would actually be a chance of using the benefits of getting my wife up to the US to see her family (the US benefits are harder to use since the planes are jammed packed full nowadays). We love the climate in QLD, we love the beach and surfing. Downside: I'm really unsure as to how hard the job market is, people say its bad to get started in Australia - is that still the case with the booming Asian aviation market? We would both be orphans (no family in Aus). We do have friends in the sunshine coast. I think long term it would be better to aim for the NZ or Australian airline. However it takes a long time to get a start down here compared to the US at the moment.
Can anyone give me some help please?
Thanks a lot if you made it this far!
Do it in AUS
Hi all, Im new here - thanks for having me. I'm hoping for some educated advice should you all be so kind as to read my novel here....
Here the scope... My wife and I are unsure where to start out with my career changing to aviation.... It is my goal to work for an airline and fly a jet. Please don't take my assumptions or semi educated guesses below as arrogance, we all need something to work towards and I believe in having a clear goal of where you want to be. I understand it is a huge commitment and a culling procedure, only the most committed and lucky too make it.
I'm a New Zealand citizen, 30 years old, married to a US citizen, living in NZ. I have a Oil and Gas career already, it pays well and is stable, but it doesn't fill the soul. I hold a New Zealand CAA (civil aviation authority of NZ) PPL and I have 100 hours TT. I have 3/6 CPL exams completed all with +90% results. I woke up at 5am every day to study before work and sell studied the lot so far. My wife is open to living in NZ, Australia or moving back to the US.
Here are the options - that we know of:
1.Move to the US (my wife's home) mid 2018 (green card required - about 9 months process time. Undertake training to complete all certification including MEIR instructor at ATP flight school in the 6 month fast track Airline Preparation Course. Current zero to working for a regional is 2 years (18 months of instructing). I have a lot more info and have poured over forums for days to make sure there wasn't a typo, yes 6 months and this is the largest training fleet in the US. Cost $65k USD.
Upside: training is very fast, straight to Jet fleets, jobs a plenty (apparently), very nice family in the US, the wife would get to be with family (we want to start one soon too). It would be one heck of an adventure
Downside, Its a long long way home and a major cost. To get to a US major airline you need a bachelors degree, so would need to complete one part time (licences cross credit around 25% of the course). Add $50k USD and a lot of study in hotels, so takes total cost to $115k USD.
2. Remain in NZ (my home), finish up work, find a full-time course to finish my CPL studies (3 exams to go) then instrument, MEIR, instructors ratings etc. Cost, likely around $100k NZD through Christchurch Av institute or similar or maybe go to a Mom and Dad school and pay less? Total time, 18 months to 2 years...
Upside: I'm halfway there with the CPL studies already. I know the CAA system. I'd love to end up working for the countries airline, or even just flying for an airline here in NZ. I have NZ Electrical licences and could work part time if I had to to support if things were slower than expected.
Downside: The weather.... Shocking winter in the lower North... The aviation job market here is barren from what i read and am constantly told. I'm afraid of making such a big commitment and nothing coming of it in NZ.
3. Sell up and move to QLD Australia. We were there last week and visited Airways Aviation in the gold coast, took a trial flight (although I have a PPL already) out of the GC airport. Plan would be to get the PPL converted and train with Airways Aviation for Diploma CPL and Diploma IR. They have a program with SC University which allows you to credit your flying licenses completed with them as 1/3rd of a Bachelor of Business in Aviation. I would need to find an instructors course and finish that (perhaps 1 hour north in Brisbane). Total time 18 months to 2 years training. Cost is roughly $125k AUD including the degree.
Upside: I read that the Australian airlines are much nicer to work for than the US airlines and feel if i were lucky enough to get on with a company such as VA then there would actually be a chance of using the benefits of getting my wife up to the US to see her family (the US benefits are harder to use since the planes are jammed packed full nowadays). We love the climate in QLD, we love the beach and surfing.
Downside: I'm really unsure as to how hard the job market is, people say its bad to get started in Australia - is that still the case with the booming Asian aviation market? We would both be orphans (no family in Aus). We do have friends in the sunshine coast.
I think long term it would be better to aim for the NZ or Australian airline. However it takes a long time to get a start down here compared to the US at the moment.
Can anyone give me some help please?
Thanks a lot if you made it this far!
Here the scope... My wife and I are unsure where to start out with my career changing to aviation.... It is my goal to work for an airline and fly a jet. Please don't take my assumptions or semi educated guesses below as arrogance, we all need something to work towards and I believe in having a clear goal of where you want to be. I understand it is a huge commitment and a culling procedure, only the most committed and lucky too make it
. I'm a New Zealand citizen, 30 years old, married to a US citizen, living in NZ. I have a Oil and Gas career already, it pays well and is stable, but it doesn't fill the soul. I hold a New Zealand CAA (civil aviation authority of NZ) PPL and I have 100 hours TT. I have 3/6 CPL exams completed all with +90% results. I woke up at 5am every day to study before work and sell studied the lot so far. My wife is open to living in NZ, Australia or moving back to the US.
Here are the options - that we know of:
1.Move to the US (my wife's home) mid 2018 (green card required - about 9 months process time. Undertake training to complete all certification including MEIR instructor at ATP flight school in the 6 month fast track Airline Preparation Course. Current zero to working for a regional is 2 years (18 months of instructing). I have a lot more info and have poured over forums for days to make sure there wasn't a typo, yes 6 months and this is the largest training fleet in the US. Cost $65k USD.
Upside: training is very fast, straight to Jet fleets, jobs a plenty (apparently), very nice family in the US, the wife would get to be with family (we want to start one soon too). It would be one heck of an adventureDownside, Its a long long way home and a major cost. To get to a US major airline you need a bachelors degree, so would need to complete one part time (licences cross credit around 25% of the course). Add $50k USD and a lot of study in hotels, so takes total cost to $115k USD. 2. Remain in NZ (my home), finish up work, find a full-time course to finish my CPL studies (3 exams to go) then instrument, MEIR, instructors ratings etc. Cost, likely around $100k NZD through Christchurch Av institute or similar or maybe go to a Mom and Dad school and pay less? Total time, 18 months to 2 years...
Upside: I'm halfway there with the CPL studies already. I know the CAA system. I'd love to end up working for the countries airline, or even just flying for an airline here in NZ. I have NZ Electrical licences and could work part time if I had to to support if things were slower than expected.Downside: The weather.... Shocking winter in the lower North... The aviation job market here is barren from what i read and am constantly told. I'm afraid of making such a big commitment and nothing coming of it in NZ. 3. Sell up and move to QLD Australia. We were there last week and visited Airways Aviation in the gold coast, took a trial flight (although I have a PPL already) out of the GC airport. Plan would be to get the PPL converted and train with Airways Aviation for Diploma CPL and Diploma IR. They have a program with SC University which allows you to credit your flying licenses completed with them as 1/3rd of a Bachelor of Business in Aviation. I would need to find an instructors course and finish that (perhaps 1 hour north in Brisbane). Total time 18 months to 2 years training. Cost is roughly $125k AUD including the degree.
Upside: I read that the Australian airlines are much nicer to work for than the US airlines and feel if i were lucky enough to get on with a company such as VA then there would actually be a chance of using the benefits of getting my wife up to the US to see her family (the US benefits are harder to use since the planes are jammed packed full nowadays). We love the climate in QLD, we love the beach and surfing. Downside: I'm really unsure as to how hard the job market is, people say its bad to get started in Australia - is that still the case with the booming Asian aviation market? We would both be orphans (no family in Aus). We do have friends in the sunshine coast. I think long term it would be better to aim for the NZ or Australian airline. However it takes a long time to get a start down here compared to the US at the moment.
Can anyone give me some help please?
Thanks a lot if you made it this far!
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I would take the missus and go to the states. Cheaper to train and easier to get a start, you will be in the regionals before you know it.Or stay in NZ and fly some clapped out 50 year old Cessna in and out of Milford, and that's if you get lucky.Get some CRJ or EMB time in your logbook and the airlines in NZ and AUS will be interested for sure.
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Flying School
Hello
I am looking for a flying school in Melbourne. I am seeing an instructor from InterAir at Essendon. Just wondering does anyone know about Melton Flying School? Are they any good and does anyone know the Grade of instructor there?
I am looking for a flying school in Melbourne. I am seeing an instructor from InterAir at Essendon. Just wondering does anyone know about Melton Flying School? Are they any good and does anyone know the Grade of instructor there?
Melton Flying School
Drive down and make your own assessment. CFI is very experienced and has been instructing for years. Don't expect the CFI or anyone else there to be wearing a white pilot's shirt with bars, wings and all the rest of the glitter.
Great environment to learn in and I'm pretty sure they are still the cheapest GA flying school within the Melbourne basin.
Not sure if they can do IFR ratings, however they will be able to get you through to a CPL and a NVFR.
Great environment to learn in and I'm pretty sure they are still the cheapest GA flying school within the Melbourne basin.
Not sure if they can do IFR ratings, however they will be able to get you through to a CPL and a NVFR.
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If it’s the same instructor as the one who was there in the early 2000’s then he’s very well qualified. He was the LAME, charter pilot, instructor, CFI, refueller, aerodrome operator all at the same time.
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PPL to CPL Hours, options, A/C type and Study
PPL to CPL Hours, options, A/C type and Study
Hello, ive looked and found varying questions that answer some but not all of my current queries:
1. PPL to CPL integrated hours:you require 150 hours, what aircraft types must you use for CPL hours. So I believe you must have a design feature required for CPL, is that just for the test or for all hours beyond PPL attainment? (cannot locate the regulations for this)
Multi engine and IFR. Anyone have a current cost for this post obtaining CPL in a single eng aircraft?
2. Any experiences of people doing an integrated FEE help program or HECS PPL to CPL in relation to program cost, and theory study through say TAFE. I have heard that much of the TAFE content is given by older tutors who are out of touch with the current industry and the CPL/ATPL exams. Is this the case, any opinions appreciated.
Hello, ive looked and found varying questions that answer some but not all of my current queries:
1. PPL to CPL integrated hours:you require 150 hours, what aircraft types must you use for CPL hours. So I believe you must have a design feature required for CPL, is that just for the test or for all hours beyond PPL attainment? (cannot locate the regulations for this)
Multi engine and IFR. Anyone have a current cost for this post obtaining CPL in a single eng aircraft?
2. Any experiences of people doing an integrated FEE help program or HECS PPL to CPL in relation to program cost, and theory study through say TAFE. I have heard that much of the TAFE content is given by older tutors who are out of touch with the current industry and the CPL/ATPL exams. Is this the case, any opinions appreciated.
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IFR or NVFR that is the question?
Hi all
Is it really worth getting a NVFR rating. There are more limitations on this rating than a full IF rating. It is true that you have to pass the dreaded IREX exam and get more formal training than NVFR but it would be better over the long run, don't you think?
Is it really worth getting a NVFR rating. There are more limitations on this rating than a full IF rating. It is true that you have to pass the dreaded IREX exam and get more formal training than NVFR but it would be better over the long run, don't you think?
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1 - No requirement to build the hours in any particular aircraft with specific design features, just that it is a recognised or registered aeroplane. I.e Some of it can be RAAus, the rest VH registered even if it's in an experimental such as an RV.
Multi IFR - you can do this before your CPL and the hours will count to the minimum required. I'd suggest you find somewhere that will do most of the CIR training in a single and then the last few hours and test in a twin, again saving money. Or better yet, get a SECIR and an initial twin endorsement then when the time comes do the upgrade, it'll be cheaper to keep current while you're kicking around VFR.
2 - Pay for it as you go, it's hard work and it hurts the bank account when you go on a long dual nav but overall it's significantly cheaper and you can pick a school where you're not being taught by a new grade 3 who's just there to get the hours to get into an airline. Then go and do a theory course such as the one offered by Bob Tait if that's your thing.
I'd ask whether the older TAFE tutors you mention are out of touch with the industry or whether they have practical experience and are telling it how it is rather than the glossy marketing brochures produced by the sausage factory VET FEE-Help schools.
Multi IFR - you can do this before your CPL and the hours will count to the minimum required. I'd suggest you find somewhere that will do most of the CIR training in a single and then the last few hours and test in a twin, again saving money. Or better yet, get a SECIR and an initial twin endorsement then when the time comes do the upgrade, it'll be cheaper to keep current while you're kicking around VFR.
2 - Pay for it as you go, it's hard work and it hurts the bank account when you go on a long dual nav but overall it's significantly cheaper and you can pick a school where you're not being taught by a new grade 3 who's just there to get the hours to get into an airline. Then go and do a theory course such as the one offered by Bob Tait if that's your thing.
I'd ask whether the older TAFE tutors you mention are out of touch with the industry or whether they have practical experience and are telling it how it is rather than the glossy marketing brochures produced by the sausage factory VET FEE-Help schools.
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Thank you for the information, so what I believe is you could hire a plane maybe at best mates rate (VH registered I would use) then get a Grade 3 or 2 instructor and complete the required training, hour build and then pay for an approved testing instructor for the CPL flight test, once all exams and prac flying are complete?. I have already passed one of the CPL subjects studying myself at home using bob taits, so I am thinking I could keep my job, not run up a huge HECS bill and like you said do it as you go. Schools want 65-75k for PPL-CPL that only includes at the end a 182 or 206 endorsement, still VFR single. why would I pay that crazy amount.
What you've said is basically correct, though I'd recommend you try and mix in dual and command time through the whole process instead of getting to the required 100 hours in command and finding an instructor to prepare you for the test, you'll learn and retain more. It's also worth considering doing some spinning/aerobatics or a tailwheel endorsement with an experienced instructor as an alternative to doing long dual navs or bashing around the circuit in a typical 172/PA28 and learning very little.
Warriors are a bit clapped out, but I've seen worse
Careful what you write on Pprune as CASA read these pages too and might even drive out to have a look at the clapped out Warriors. As long as the maintenance release has no reported defects on the aeroplane (ops normal at most flying schools) then they must be 100% serviceable (in theory, anyway) and safe to fly..
