Any news on Barrier? Minus the drift.
Thread Starter
From what I'm told they showed up ( most likely because the court ordered it) but that was as far as their participation went.
The m others
Cray is very wet behind the ears. CASA not only has whimsies, but will do a job on someone at the behest of a competitor company..ma a a te !
And especially if the person now with CASA, used to work for the competitor co.! An agency with ethics and integrity..my ar$e!
"CAsA is the regulator, (Big R ?) not the ministry of cuddles."
Definitely doesnt have that sort of embrace..just a choke hold. And busy strangling the life out of GA.
But worse..CASA is also the judge, jury, "investigator" and would -be executioner. "Investigations" can be polished, (like the turd) to suit the agenda...make it up, see things that didnt happen, and embellish the story. Whatever it takes.
And the phrase "file stuffing"has plenty of merit...from CASA point ..the more NCNs or whatever, all grist for the unsafety mill, the better it sounds for the prosecution...if it gets that far.
CASA is an agency that has so poisoned its relationship with the industry, that its beyond redemption.
Praise be to Dog, Allah, the Senators or whoever..PLEASE put the bloody place out of our misery.
And especially if the person now with CASA, used to work for the competitor co.! An agency with ethics and integrity..my ar$e!
"CAsA is the regulator, (Big R ?) not the ministry of cuddles."
Definitely doesnt have that sort of embrace..just a choke hold. And busy strangling the life out of GA.
But worse..CASA is also the judge, jury, "investigator" and would -be executioner. "Investigations" can be polished, (like the turd) to suit the agenda...make it up, see things that didnt happen, and embellish the story. Whatever it takes.
And the phrase "file stuffing"has plenty of merit...from CASA point ..the more NCNs or whatever, all grist for the unsafety mill, the better it sounds for the prosecution...if it gets that far.
CASA is an agency that has so poisoned its relationship with the industry, that its beyond redemption.
Praise be to Dog, Allah, the Senators or whoever..PLEASE put the bloody place out of our misery.
Thread Starter
Amen Aroa....testify!
The trouble is, nothing will change until CAsA can be held accountable for it's actions. As far as I can see they can do pretty much what ever they like with no repercussions. If they are being naughty they will have no exception to any such change. Now how do we issue THEM a 'show cause notice' as to why they should still be our regulator?
Again sorry for the drift, just gets up my nose and we need a change......
The trouble is, nothing will change until CAsA can be held accountable for it's actions. As far as I can see they can do pretty much what ever they like with no repercussions. If they are being naughty they will have no exception to any such change. Now how do we issue THEM a 'show cause notice' as to why they should still be our regulator?
Again sorry for the drift, just gets up my nose and we need a change......
ps..a little grape fell
from the Barrier vine.
Certain CNS CASA "Wally of Note"...big on the Barrier bash? seemingly having some trouble with BN2 u/c leg maintenance issues.
Where do they dredge up these trogs from?
Not the first time the BLister has chucked a wobbly over HIS way of thinking..never mind real world ...or the manual. His been updated now,has it??
Oh dear.!
What have they got to make them Court shy, I wonder.?
Certain CNS CASA "Wally of Note"...big on the Barrier bash? seemingly having some trouble with BN2 u/c leg maintenance issues.
Where do they dredge up these trogs from?
Not the first time the BLister has chucked a wobbly over HIS way of thinking..never mind real world ...or the manual. His been updated now,has it??
Oh dear.!
What have they got to make them Court shy, I wonder.?
Testified...
2twit..Have done.!.in spades aplenty.
The good senators are still in the Pel-Air bit...but... part d) other matters should yield some incendiary materials from far and wide.
Trust some of my handfuls hit the fan, go forth..and stick!
The good senators are still in the Pel-Air bit...but... part d) other matters should yield some incendiary materials from far and wide.
Trust some of my handfuls hit the fan, go forth..and stick!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok,
this seems to have drifted a lil bit.
Like all things legal, some of the documents supplied are a lil hard on the eyeballs, unless suitably 'endorsed'
2 simple questions......
1. Judge said "nothing to see here get on with business" ?
2. CASA said next day, "lots to see, you're grounded again" ?
If the answer to both, is yes, then surely a criminal act has been committed by the 'regulator' There are laws against double jeopardy in this country FFS!
Given the way i read the judges comments, the regulator should be working with the operator to get them airborne again. One wouldn't expect that to be an instantaneous process, however, one would expect a guvmint entity to be proactive in encouraging business activity under its control
I digress.......
this seems to have drifted a lil bit.
Like all things legal, some of the documents supplied are a lil hard on the eyeballs, unless suitably 'endorsed'
2 simple questions......
1. Judge said "nothing to see here get on with business" ?
2. CASA said next day, "lots to see, you're grounded again" ?
If the answer to both, is yes, then surely a criminal act has been committed by the 'regulator' There are laws against double jeopardy in this country FFS!
Given the way i read the judges comments, the regulator should be working with the operator to get them airborne again. One wouldn't expect that to be an instantaneous process, however, one would expect a guvmint entity to be proactive in encouraging business activity under its control
I digress.......
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now what happens?
Ok, so I have to get this clear, from what I understand the following happened:
15th February: CASA and Barrier meet in Federal Court, CASA asks for a 28 day extension of the grounding and gets denied. CASA says they are not ready for Court, unable to present any solid evidence they get forced by the Court into supervised mediation with Barrier.
18th February to 21st February: CASA and Barrier meet in mediation. It seems that CASA had no intention to mediate and simply stalled, stonewalled, disrupted the whole process, delaying until time ran out.
22nd February - Federal Court basically throws out the whole case, the suspension is lifted/expires at 1700. CASA then proceeds to ignore the court and extend the suspension for another five day plus now finally threatens a Show Cause which would give them a further 28 day suspension.
If this is correct how can this be legal?
Do the Federal Courts decisions not cary any weight?
Will this now go to the AAT or stay in the Federal Court?
What would have to happen for there to be a Senate Inquiry into CASA's conduct and the process?
This just doesn't seem right!
Can anyone shed some light on how this is possible? (Serious Question)
15th February: CASA and Barrier meet in Federal Court, CASA asks for a 28 day extension of the grounding and gets denied. CASA says they are not ready for Court, unable to present any solid evidence they get forced by the Court into supervised mediation with Barrier.
18th February to 21st February: CASA and Barrier meet in mediation. It seems that CASA had no intention to mediate and simply stalled, stonewalled, disrupted the whole process, delaying until time ran out.
22nd February - Federal Court basically throws out the whole case, the suspension is lifted/expires at 1700. CASA then proceeds to ignore the court and extend the suspension for another five day plus now finally threatens a Show Cause which would give them a further 28 day suspension.
If this is correct how can this be legal?
Do the Federal Courts decisions not cary any weight?
Will this now go to the AAT or stay in the Federal Court?
What would have to happen for there to be a Senate Inquiry into CASA's conduct and the process?
This just doesn't seem right!
Can anyone shed some light on how this is possible? (Serious Question)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
History and all that.
Speaking of legal gospel:-Phelan-Polar Aviation - This what Barrier are trying to deal with. It's a tough road to travel.
I just wonder where it was all hidden during the Hempel mess?, next up in the Coroners court.
Opinion. In effect, CASA’s lawyer is claiming that its officers can do what they like to whomever they like, using the cloak of respectability of “safety” under s9A (1) of the Civil Aviation Act, with impunity and at the discretion and subjective opinions of the officials concerned, with a total disregard to any person’s personal or business rights, no matter how trivial (or negligently false) the alleged “safety” issue might be, and no matter how devastating the effect any such heavy handed action might have on an individual or business.
Is this the way any industry should be regulated?
Is this the way any industry should be regulated?
Last edited by Kharon; 25th Feb 2013 at 20:25.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: on the beach :-)
Age: 50
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Safety' is a bludgeon used by petty minded officials to intimidate, abuse and destroy those who annoy them.
It is like the club of 'Security.'
Crying safety safety safety and security security security all manner of evils are perpetrated.
The key is to stop using generalizations which hide and protect the guility officials. Everytime we say CASA we are letting the individuals making the mess off scot free.
The individuals gorging at CASA trough as pilots engineers staff and families struggle with mortgages, school payments and feeding their kids, must be named and shamed. Operators should have access to an industry generated list of suspect CASA officials listing their service histories so that when John Icanninoflysoneitherwillyou is listed as an upcoming Inspector or Auditor the company has the right to appeal for an unbiased auditor.
Conflicts of interests, power plays, pleasure of destruction, psychopathetic personalities, stubbornness, more of the same, intimidation runs rife in the minds of entrenched bureaucrats on a pronouced mission to make the world safe and secure but really operating at a biological level of enjoying inflicting pain on others.
Name and shame the CASA officials involved.
It is like the club of 'Security.'
Crying safety safety safety and security security security all manner of evils are perpetrated.
The key is to stop using generalizations which hide and protect the guility officials. Everytime we say CASA we are letting the individuals making the mess off scot free.
The individuals gorging at CASA trough as pilots engineers staff and families struggle with mortgages, school payments and feeding their kids, must be named and shamed. Operators should have access to an industry generated list of suspect CASA officials listing their service histories so that when John Icanninoflysoneitherwillyou is listed as an upcoming Inspector or Auditor the company has the right to appeal for an unbiased auditor.
Conflicts of interests, power plays, pleasure of destruction, psychopathetic personalities, stubbornness, more of the same, intimidation runs rife in the minds of entrenched bureaucrats on a pronouced mission to make the world safe and secure but really operating at a biological level of enjoying inflicting pain on others.
Name and shame the CASA officials involved.
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 25th Feb 2013 at 21:34.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Havana
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of you clowns amaze me. Barrier HAVE done wrong, that is not in question. Don't like being bludgeoned by CASA's safety hammer, then be compliant. This doesn't mean just appearing to be compliant (which is why the operation has been around so long).
Lostwingnut,
fpvdude answers this one for you:
You're not going to get the full story here, due largely to the blokes that clearly have their head FIRMLY wedged in the sand. To imply that CASA grounded this operator for no reason other than a vendetta, is ludicrous! Everyone in FNQ knows what really goes on up there, "proof" or otherwise. Quite frankly, I don't care what proof they have.
Easy to make money hand over fist when you sell seats without the overheads of silly things, like a CAR 217 organisation, class A maintenance (and questionable class B maintenance as it turns out). The chickens have come home to roost it would seem.
This just doesn't seem right!
Can anyone shed some light on how this is possible? (Serious Question)
Can anyone shed some light on how this is possible? (Serious Question)
fpvdude answers this one for you:
So we're all now taking a rumor forum as legal gospel. Intriguing..
Easy to make money hand over fist when you sell seats without the overheads of silly things, like a CAR 217 organisation, class A maintenance (and questionable class B maintenance as it turns out). The chickens have come home to roost it would seem.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This doesn't mean just appearing to be compliant (which is why the operation has been around so long).
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Havana
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If they have given the appearance of being compliant it means they have been pulling the wool over the regulators eyes. How do you get away with that?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia, maybe
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quoting Dash 42
-42, No casa or ATSB comment in there about proven VFR in IMC. The body of the report has a lot of conjecture about the weather conditions but the airprox was put down to the differing CTAF(R)'s. However you proclaim Vfr into IMC, you must be very wise.
-42 also says
You probably don't care if there is no proof either.
Don't bother about proof and judicial procedure or fairness or innocent until proven guilty.
Oh to be so wise.
-42 just 'knows' it. He can feel it in his bones.
A very close shave in IMC with an IFR Caravan and a VFR Islander comes to mind..
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Review of the Horn Island Area CTAF boundary
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is currently reviewing the use of two distinct frequencies for the Horn Island and Northern Peninsula CTAF(R)s.
Operator of the Islander
Review of company procedures
Due to the amount of traffic operating within the Torres Strait area, the company is considering the possibility of changing its operating procedures so that all flights carried out in this region are conducted under IFR, when marginal VMC weather conditions exist.
ATSB COMMENT
This incident highlights the fundamental role radio broadcasts have, particularly in uncontrolled airspace, to ensure that separation between aircraft is established and maintained; and the value of applying effective see-and-avoid principles.
For more information regarding see-and-avoid principles, the following publication is available from the ATSB’s website (www.atsb.gov.au):
Review of the Horn Island Area CTAF boundary
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is currently reviewing the use of two distinct frequencies for the Horn Island and Northern Peninsula CTAF(R)s.
Operator of the Islander
Review of company procedures
Due to the amount of traffic operating within the Torres Strait area, the company is considering the possibility of changing its operating procedures so that all flights carried out in this region are conducted under IFR, when marginal VMC weather conditions exist.
ATSB COMMENT
This incident highlights the fundamental role radio broadcasts have, particularly in uncontrolled airspace, to ensure that separation between aircraft is established and maintained; and the value of applying effective see-and-avoid principles.
For more information regarding see-and-avoid principles, the following publication is available from the ATSB’s website (www.atsb.gov.au):
-42 also says
Barrier HAVE done wrong, that is not in question.
Everyone in FNQ knows what really goes on up there, "proof" or otherwise. Quite frankly, I don't care what proof they have.
Don't bother about proof and judicial procedure or fairness or innocent until proven guilty.
Oh to be so wise.
-42 just 'knows' it. He can feel it in his bones.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Havana
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which division of CAsA do you work for Dashy me old fruit?
Just because I put some balance into this discussion, does not mean I work for the CASA. Just to be clear, I am not defending CASA here, as I mentioned, this should have been brought to light some time ago. The point I am making is that Barrier have, over the years received preferential treatment from the northern section. Most know why.
What I am suggesting, is that after the written statement was furnished to them, they finally decided to cover their own butts and follow it up. Evidence was found, and here we are. I think questions should be asked from Canberra as to WHY it has taken a written statement from a former employee for CASA to "discover" what has been occurring for years. Now THAT would be interesting, but won't happen.
Thread Starter
I fail to see how making stuff up equates to adding balance.
According to other posts on here, Barrier had undergone 2 audits and over 8 months of surveillance before 'the letter', which you say forced CAsA to no longer sweep it under the rug, was even written
Now I hardly call that preferential treatment.
According to other posts on here, Barrier had undergone 2 audits and over 8 months of surveillance before 'the letter', which you say forced CAsA to no longer sweep it under the rug, was even written
Now I hardly call that preferential treatment.