Depression within the Profession

[Boney]

I see the "suspicion of being under the influence" thread has been locked, understandble, as it has run it's course.

After being a pprune member for 14 yrs, this is only the 3rd post I have started so I expect this one to disappear like a fart in a strong wind just like the other 2?

Let me first say in regards to current case before the great media in this country (dominated by Murdoch, the phone hacker legend!?) must be considered a case of innocent until proven otherwise.

Either way, I believe a major issue that is not acknowledged or admitted in this industry is depression. This is very often a latent or major factor in all types of substance abuse.

One would have to assume that pilots do suffer the same rates of depression as everyone else in modern society. I believe the industry is in denial and always has been.

That must mean every day there could be about 100 moderately and 20 severely depressed airline pilots signing on in the crew room, making sure they are wearing the same smile we see on the posters!?.

Please discuss only the "depression denial" this industry suffers from so my post can survive till dawn.

[hiwaytohell]

Good topic Bones

I am not sure it is a major issue in aviation, but it certainly is an issue.

Depression, anxiety as well as bipolar are often not understood or diagnosed. Having been married to a person who has suffered severe episodes of depression it is something not well understood.

People with depression find it hard to function every day and may be reluctant to participate in activities they once enjoyed

I don't know the answer but getting professional help and removing the stigma are critical. My wife is now mostly well, but it was a long road, involving professional help (believe me there is a lot of shame/stigma seeing a psychiatrist), medication (for a while) and a lot of family support.

I also know a former airline pilot who lost his licence early in his career... it was a long road back, but he got there.

All I can say is if you think it is affecting you or someone you know see your GP, or followup through one of the excellent support networks like Beyondblue beyondblue: the national depression initiative and anxiety - What is Depression?

A look over Beyondblue's website is a must!

[teresa green]

Hmm, I think to a degree depression is the new RSI (remember that) and every half baked "celebratory" appears to have it. To anyone who is a legitimate sufferer, that is have a chemical imbalance, I imagine its hell on earth. I come from a era where it is OK for women to feel "out of sorts" as they used to say, but for blokes, nah. To our era it is self indulged crap, but the reality appears it is anything but, but then you had two parents, one house, went to school, were scared ****less of teachers, police and your old man, knew what your position was in the family, what was tolerated, and a smack in the head or ear if you stepped out of line. It was a safer world. Seems to me it is simply a symptom of the world we now inhabit, and it is not the simple world I grew up in. All the bells and whistles have not made people any happier.

[PukinDog]

I see the "suspicion of being under the influence" thread has been locked,
understandble, as it has run it's course.

Had it run its course? One was moved off R & N with great panic to here, where it was promply locked then deleted.

Now the one remaining one has been locked. How long will it last before deletion?

I find it depressing that the Mods will let threads about similar incidents at other airlines run for dozens of pages on R & N for weeks, but work to corral into their own purview another for what seems like the purpose of squashing any discussion, even if that discussion is professional and non-accusatory.

The appearance of circling the wagons is beneficial to no one in the profession, or its image. That's depressing.

[Sonny Hammond]

With the (often unreasonable) amount of oversight we suffer, particularly by non-operation office staff with no idea about the realities of our job and the downward trend in the desirability of the job of a pilot, it would be surprising if depression were not an issue.

Hands up who struggles to pay the bills. Hands up if your an airline pilot and cannot provide the life you want for your family.
The hardliners will say toughen up, but really, if the profession doesnt really pay the bills and with Australian societies expectations on the bread winners, I know there are guys and girls out there as depressed as hell about their future.

Anyone give a rats? Nope. (Rat- get it?)

Most would agree that Aviation and Australia in general has a strong drinking culture.
Anyone hazard a guess what one of the leading depressants is? Alcohol. Source: The largest ever study in to drug harms places alcohol in the top four | Neurobonkers.com

So if you are already down about the way the boss treats you, I'm talking to you Mr CEO, it should be no surprise when a few drinks each night compounds this issue.
But that's ok, you just fly the plane sonny.

[hiwaytohell]

Teresa... very ignorant comment!

Normally I would let this go through to the keeper. But depression is not someone feeling depressed for whatever reason, it is a serious and debilitating mental health disease.

I can tell you first hand having seen what it did to my beautiful vibrant and highly intelligent wife. Firstly she went through "its all in your imagination" with various doctors until she got the right advice and treatment. It took a very long decade to get her well, which thankfully she is now.

I have seen a few others with seemingly normal lives at the point of suicide.

A generation ago it went undiagnosed, and as a result we saw lives and families destroyed through alcohol, drugs, violence and suicide... we just did not talk about it.

But it is treatable.

Take 10 minutes to look up Beyondblue's website.

[Mach E Avelli]

I do not think that Teresa's comments are at all out of place. Having grown up in a similar age when men were men and barmaids ate their young, it does seem that we are only too quick to label every emotional problem with depression. Medicos are quick to put "depressed" teenagers on Valium etc. When a good old kick in the bum is probably all that is needed to sort out some of their attitude.
Teresa is not denying the existence of the condition. I have seen it up close so I do not deny it either. But the distinction between finding a situation depressing and being depressed should be made. I have worked in downright depressing conditions for depressing employers but it did not cause me to fall into a depressive state. A pissed off state, yes. A state that had me reaching for the red red wine, yes.
Back in Teres's day (and my early days) it was common for the crew to be up drinking until midnight, stagger off for whatever sleep we could snatch in the heat under the mosquito nets and report for duty 5 hours later. Totally not acceptable today, but we survived.
Times have indeed changed. Much more pressure from BigBrother to be compliant. How depressing.

[Sunfish]

I think it has been stated elsewhere on Pprune that any mention of the medical condition called "depression" and associated prescription of SSRI's to a DAME will result in instant suspension of a medical certificate and no chance of getting it back, ever.

[Servo]

Sunfish,

Simply not true, sorry. CASA recognises and acknowledge that depression can be treated with medication and professional help. No loss of medical or licence.

[drop bear ten]

Teresa Green,
In the 1950's a lady I know had a mother who was "feeling out of sorts". She was locked in a mental institution for 11 years. In hindsight she was suffering from post natal depression after the birth of her 4th child. My friend became the matriarch of the family and raised 3 young children from when she was 10 years old.

Toughen up Princess ain't what it used to be thankfully.

[tail wheel]

I have never suffered from anxiety or depression and in medical qualifications, I struggle to apply a BandAid, but I do not believe this to be totally correct:

With the (often unreasonable) amount of oversight we suffer, particularly by non-operation office staff with no idea about the realities of our job and the downward trend in the desirability of the job of a pilot, it would be surprising if depression were not an issue.

Hands up who struggles to pay the bills. Hands up if your an airline pilot and cannot provide the life you want for your family.

Whilst those factors may understandably cause occasional anxiety and depression in normal people, I think the depression being discussed here is a disorder perhaps termed chronic clinical depression, the result of a psychiatric disorder rather than caused by external influences?

Clinical depression does affect pilots. I am aware of at least two fatal instances the result of depression, the 1997 Silk Air crash in Indonesia probably being one such instance.

It is a very serious condition and those who suffer from clinical depression are encouraged to contact organisations such as Beyond Blue.

[Fantome]

'Always look on the bright side of life' is of course no cure-all at all.

The Coué method

The application of a mantra-like conscious autosuggestion, "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better" (French: Tous les jours à tous points de vue je vais de mieux en mieux) is called Couéism or the Coué method. The Coué method centres on a routine repetition of this particular expression according to a specified ritual, in a given physical state, and in the absence of any sort of allied mental imagery, at the beginning and at the end of each day.

Unlike the common once held belief that a strong conscious will constitutes the best path to success, Coué maintained that curing a person's troubles requires a change in unconscious thought, which can only be achieved by using the imagination. Although stressing that he was not primarily a healer but one who taught others to heal themselves, Coué claimed to have effected organic changes through autosuggestion.

Coué noticed that in certain cases he could improve the efficacy of a given medicine by praising its effectiveness to the patient. He realized that those patients to whom he praised the medicine had a noticeable improvement when compared to patients to whom he said nothing. This began Coué’s exploration of the use of hypnosis and the power of the imagination.
His initial method for treating patients relied on hypnosis. He discovered that subjects could not be hypnotized against their will and, more importantly, that the effects of hypnosis waned when the subjects regained consciousness.

Hence he eventually turned to autosuggestion, which he describes as
" an instrument that we possess at birth, and with which we play unconsciously all our life, as a baby plays with its rattle. It is however a dangerous instrument; it can wound or even kill you if you handle it imprudently and unconsciously. It can on the contrary save your life when you know how to employ it consciously."

Coué believed in medication. But he also believed that our mental state is able to affect and even amplify the action of certain medications. By consciously using autosuggestion, he observed that his patients could cure themselves more efficiently by replacing their "thought of illness" with a new "thought of cure". According to Coué, repeating words or images enough times causes the subconscious to absorb them. The cures were the result of using imagination or "positive autosuggestion" to the exclusion of one's own willpower.

Coué thus developed a method which relied on the principle that any idea exclusively occupying the mind turns into reality, although only to the extent that the idea is within the realm of possibility. For instance, a person without hands will not be able to make them grow back. However, if a person firmly believes that his or her asthma is disappearing, then this may actually happen, as far as the body is actually able to physically overcome or control the illness. On the other hand, thinking negatively about the illness (ex. "I am not feeling well") will encourage both mind and body to accept this thought. Likewise, when someone cannot remember a name, they will probably not be able to recall it as long as they hold onto this idea (i.e. "I can't remember") in their mind. Coué realised that it is better to focus on and imagine the desired, positive results (i.e. "I feel healthy and energetic" and "I can remember clearly").

Coué observed that the main obstacle to autosuggestion was willpower. For the method to work, the patient must refrain from making any independent judgment, meaning that he must not let his will impose its own views on positive ideas. Everything must thus be done to ensure that the positive "autosuggestive" idea is consciously accepted by the patient, otherwise one may end up getting the opposite effect of what is desired.

For example, when a student has forgotten the answer to a question in an exam, he will likely think something such as "I have forgotten the answer". The more he or she tries to think of it, the more the answer becomes blurred and obscured. However, if this negative thought is replaced with a more positive one ("No need to worry, it will come back to me"), the chances that the student will come to remember the answer will increase.

Coué noted that young children always applied his method perfectly, as they lacked the willpower that remained present among adults. When he instructed a child by saying "clasp your hands and you can't open them", the child would thus immediately follow.

A patient's problems are likely to increase when his willpower and imagination are opposing each other, something Coué referred to as "self-conflict". In the student's case, the will to succeed is clearly incompatible with his thought of being incapable of remembering his answers. As the conflict intensifies, so does the problem: the more the patient tries to sleep, the more he becomes awake. The more a patient tries to stop smoking, the more he smokes. The patient must thus abandon his willpower and instead put more focus on his imaginative power in order to fully succeed with his cure.

This is an extract from Wikipedia's Coue article.

The fact is the twice daily repeating of the mantra has been the catalyst to turn those afflicted around onto a brighter path. When self-belief begins to make inroads on a sense of hopelessness people do find their natural enthusiasms and interest in the all the positive fascinating things life has to offer come back.

People do find inspiration in memorable phrases spoken or written in extremis or in quiet reflection. Harry Hooten's 'It's Great to be Alive' was written just before his death from cancer, lying in hospital the morphine easing his pain.

[Trojan1981]

Whilst those factors may understandably cause occasional anxiety and depression in normal people, I think the depression being discussed here is a disorder perhaps termed chronic clinical depression, the result of a psychiatric disorder rather than caused by external influences?

Yes and No, Tailwheel.

Clinical Depression is not fully understood. I personally know a few people who suffer clinical depression that is generally thought to presented as a result of long-term, suppressed PTSD.

Teresa, the true and real effects of clinical depression are not diminished by the fact that there are 'hangers on' and malingerers. This occurs with every type of injury and illness. An acquaintance of mine committed suicide due depression about a month ago. Prima facie he had everything, and no reason to kill himself. More than 500 people turned up for his funeral.

Others I know have suffered flashbacks (it scares the sh!t out of you when you see this happen to someone) and PTSD symptoms years after traumatic events and they've attempted to suppress it. Years later they end up feeling very isolated and alone in their own head, because they can't talk about it with anyone who hasn't experienced the same thing. Without help this leads to depression.

I remember reading a few years ago that depression was actually one of the top three reasons for pilots losing their medical. Was it in FSM? With all the pressures and diminishing reward in this industry, Im not surprised.

[Kharon]

Well -

Depression; anger without enthusiasm.

[mustakid]

Depression is very real. I never believed that, thought i was strong enough untill things turn sour. SSNRI inhibitors, Prestiq,Effexor can help. Along with talking, before the worst happens.