Elwood (melb) skydiving
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I'd o as far as to say that the majority of aircraft coming into and out of Moorabbin would have two radios so not being on the 135.7 frequency should theoretically not happen often if people use their brains.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Captain Midnight is correct - a significant number of aircraft in that area are not listening to 135.7 for the reasons he alluded to.
It always worries me when transiting there. I like many/most helicopters have one radio and it is on MB freq for a lot of the time.
John
It always worries me when transiting there. I like many/most helicopters have one radio and it is on MB freq for a lot of the time.
John
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Aussie bob, I'll ammend my previous statement for you.
All skydive pilots regularly break VMC except for Aussie Bob who is not a yahoo like everyone else. Ever should a day occur where there are 60 tandem punters wanting to jump and the cloud is SCT at 4000' Bob in his ultimate unselfish wisdom will refuse to fly in the interests of keeping everyone safe.
All skydive pilots regularly break VMC except for Aussie Bob who is not a yahoo like everyone else. Ever should a day occur where there are 60 tandem punters wanting to jump and the cloud is SCT at 4000' Bob in his ultimate unselfish wisdom will refuse to fly in the interests of keeping everyone safe.
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Five minutes later a Tigermoth went buzzing by. Perfect timing.
I find it easy to work with/around MOO's ops. But then I'm on the correct frequency and know where/when to expect the chutes.
The rest i'll leave for others to comment on.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Wanderin Dave.... you have hit the nail on the head
Yes there are lots of frequencies to monitor, thats why the PJE give broadcasts on most of them.
I have found it usually takes the in-experienced pilot too long to realise that their position is in conflict of where the drop zone is. For example if you were to say "expect 4 canopies on decent 6 nm North East of XXX field" can be confusing to some, but saying "expect 4 canopies over the marina" is just as confusing to IFR pilot's not familiar with the area. Maybe combining these can help
My whole gripe with this thread is that, most PJE pilot's are professional pilot's (CPL with the aspirations of doing it for a living) it is up to them to fit in with other traffic and make sure everyone is aware of their operation.
HOWEVER I am still not impressed with the level of some of the pilot's these days who through either lack of experience or more likely lack of currency are not able to hold any sort of situational awareness in busy environments. Many times I have asked for current positions and been given "I am left of the field"....
My rant has finished
Yes there are lots of frequencies to monitor, thats why the PJE give broadcasts on most of them.
I have found it usually takes the in-experienced pilot too long to realise that their position is in conflict of where the drop zone is. For example if you were to say "expect 4 canopies on decent 6 nm North East of XXX field" can be confusing to some, but saying "expect 4 canopies over the marina" is just as confusing to IFR pilot's not familiar with the area. Maybe combining these can help
My whole gripe with this thread is that, most PJE pilot's are professional pilot's (CPL with the aspirations of doing it for a living) it is up to them to fit in with other traffic and make sure everyone is aware of their operation.
HOWEVER I am still not impressed with the level of some of the pilot's these days who through either lack of experience or more likely lack of currency are not able to hold any sort of situational awareness in busy environments. Many times I have asked for current positions and been given "I am left of the field"....
My rant has finished
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With regard to your last statement ik978; I can't speak for other operators, but the guy flying MOO (I can only recall hearing one voice) is always on the ball. I know that if I'm doing the right thing then I will have no surprises.
* And I don't know the guy flying MOO from a bar of soap.
More generally; My main concern when operating thru that airspace is mid-air collision. It can be extremely busy airspace with people going to/coming from many many different places on an even greater number of frequencies. This risk applies to all operators alike whatever the op be. Actually the PJE is the lowest of my concerns. Remember that by the time the chutes get to Class G they are already under canopy.
Lookout lookout lookout and try to avoid the busy lanes and levels.
* And I don't know the guy flying MOO from a bar of soap.
More generally; My main concern when operating thru that airspace is mid-air collision. It can be extremely busy airspace with people going to/coming from many many different places on an even greater number of frequencies. This risk applies to all operators alike whatever the op be. Actually the PJE is the lowest of my concerns. Remember that by the time the chutes get to Class G they are already under canopy.
Lookout lookout lookout and try to avoid the busy lanes and levels.
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i used to drop meat bombs in another life and gave lots of calls prior to dropping (all good ones i hope ) . The number of other pilots doing navs etc that couldnt get their reported eta,s and actual time over station was within 10 mins was astounding . A lot were chastised by atc for being so far out . Its a big sky for everyone to use , we all have the same level of responsibility too do our best and if you can enlighten another pilot respectfully go for it and if your on the recieving end accept it respectfully ( after all i may be your boss one day , or you may be mine ) . I know i,m still learning after 35 years and will do so till i die . Happy landings .
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Hi ik
I certainly monitor area Frequency when going coastal. last time I was coming back from Point Cook, MelRad gave me a heads up call. I had already heard the jump pilot a minute or two earlier and I stayed a mile off shore so my response was:
If we run into one another, we'll all get wet!
I only have one radio but I certainly use it and the transponder so people know where I am and I have an idea where they are, too.
Kaz
I certainly monitor area Frequency when going coastal. last time I was coming back from Point Cook, MelRad gave me a heads up call. I had already heard the jump pilot a minute or two earlier and I stayed a mile off shore so my response was:
If we run into one another, we'll all get wet!
I only have one radio but I certainly use it and the transponder so people know where I am and I have an idea where they are, too.
Kaz
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I first flew skydivers in the days pre GPS. One had to know the local area landmarks and their relative bearings to the DZ by sight, even then the pressure was on to fly above 4/8ths or more. Obviously OVC was not possible, and the aircraft I flew was barely VFR instrument equipped! I still occasionally fly loads of skydivers, the aircraft I fly now is possibly the best C182 for the job in Australia, the pressure is still on to break the rules. Hopefully within weeks, that pressure will be off with the final signature on cloud manual approval.
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Been jumping since '75. Had more than several long hikes back when people thought they could 'cloud spot'. GPS definately make off DZ landings a smaller risk but it can still happen. The 'Through Cloud' exemption is usually only used in commercial tandem operations. Fun jumpers tend to avoid any cloud where they can lose eye contact with one another. I'm a big fan of 'looking before you leap' no matter who is spotting or where i am on the load. The earlier you know that you have been offed you can decide on how to correct it by tracking home early or opening higher.
if the is VH-MOO then it is the same operator that supplies our clubs aircraft and that we contract the tandooms to. His pilots and TM's are good and stick within the rules. Yes, still are some dodgy operators but they are all slowly being pulled into line by the APF and CASA. Most of the problems with them these days are how they pay their staff. ATO are onto that. Over the next month or so you will see MOO heard back north and WKD our clubs Cresco to take it's place. We are getting a Caravan big engined we hope. I want to say woohoo but i hate refuelling Caravans.
FH
if the is VH-MOO then it is the same operator that supplies our clubs aircraft and that we contract the tandooms to. His pilots and TM's are good and stick within the rules. Yes, still are some dodgy operators but they are all slowly being pulled into line by the APF and CASA. Most of the problems with them these days are how they pay their staff. ATO are onto that. Over the next month or so you will see MOO heard back north and WKD our clubs Cresco to take it's place. We are getting a Caravan big engined we hope. I want to say woohoo but i hate refuelling Caravans.
FH
I have found it usually takes the in-experienced pilot too long to realise that their position is in conflict of where the drop zone is.
Don't blame the pilots.
When you live....
Thread Starter
frequencies
Point Ormond - being very close to Albert Park Lake - will see aircraft entering/exiting Essendon Zone on 125.1 - not 135.7 - either seeking a clearance or getting permission to close the EN TWR frequency. During my training at MB we were often encouraged to go straight from MB frequencies to EN so as to improve situational awareness of the upcoming Class C ahead.
Not everyone has 2 comms (or uses them) and so the first an aircraft exiting EN might know about parachutes is the drop call.
I still think it's a terrible place for a DZ.
UTR
Not everyone has 2 comms (or uses them) and so the first an aircraft exiting EN might know about parachutes is the drop call.
I still think it's a terrible place for a DZ.
UTR
Years ago in Cairns, the chutes were cleared to drop at Sugarworld (near Edmonton). The letter of agreement between ATC and the company required the pilot to visually identify the dropsite. Pilot reported chutes away, but he wasn't near Edmonton - seems he misidentified the Showground, with it's surrounding built up area, for the cane paddocks near Edmonton - or perhaps finger trouble with the GPS and couldn't see through the 8 OKTAS.
Chutes all landed OK, but unfortunately no arrivals or departures for 10 minutes due proximity to Cairns aerodrome.
Chutes all landed OK, but unfortunately no arrivals or departures for 10 minutes due proximity to Cairns aerodrome.
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So, do they have a cloud dropping manual or not?
And how do frequent transitters feel about a dropzone so close to the lane?
And how do the Moorabbin Tower guys feel about having it so close to their patch?
And how's the workload on approach when all this is happening?
And how do frequent transitters feel about a dropzone so close to the lane?
And how do the Moorabbin Tower guys feel about having it so close to their patch?
And how's the workload on approach when all this is happening?
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Let's see, there's traffic into from MB into EN on 125.1 for a clearance, helicopter traffic into Yarra CTAF on 126.4, traffic from EN over to MB on 118.1, then we'd better use the second radio to check the ATIS before we make the inbound call, what was that about 135.7, I'm only in that bit of coverage for 2-3 minutes so no worries.......
That area has been a nightmare since EN airspace went as far as the beach and Pt Ormond was the entry point. I reckon it's simplistic to expect aircraft to transit a drop zone and be on the right frequency at the right time to hear the calls, let alone be aware of PJs coming through an overcast on a heavy VFR route.
Silly idea
When you live....
Thread Starter
That area has been a nightmare since EN airspace went as far as the beach and Pt Ormond was the entry point. I reckon it's simplistic to expect aircraft to transit a drop zone and be on the right frequency at the right time to hear the calls, let alone be aware of PJs coming through an overcast on a heavy VFR route.
Even with the 2nd box - I tend not to have it tuned to another enroute frequency due to the risk of missing a transmission intended for me.
Jack - they don't normally jump during cloudy weather - I assume they don't have a cloud manual - and if they do, I'd love to see the risk assessment....
UTR
I'm surprised no ones mentioned as well the the drop zone isn't marked on VTCs, it is notamed but doesn't have the pretty little symbol that makes it all the more obvious.
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Not sure if this is rellevant to the thread but some years ago I was transiting Torrence CA to Palm Springs in a lightie and just about to climb past Mt. Baldy (7000') with a cloud base of 9000' and heard a call from a DC3 about to drop a bunch of skydivers. It only seemed like a minute or so and the sky was littered with dozens of colored canopies all around me as they decended onto the baron slopes of the mountain. I am sure this is not where they expected to be and more importantly what I expected to see all around me a few hundred metres away, crazy people, but my passengers were impressed!