Elwood (melb) skydiving
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: australia
Age: 49
Posts: 75
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My bad - 11.20 - not 9.20 (way home from swimming, not way to....)
Actually, Webtrack confirms 11.17 drop followed by the seaplane out of Willy two minutes later and passing just offshore of the DZ at 11.21
4 minutes under canopy, calls on the five frequencies everyone is so proud of - last call on 135.7 with the seaplane possibly still starting up.....
Actually, Webtrack confirms 11.17 drop followed by the seaplane out of Willy two minutes later and passing just offshore of the DZ at 11.21
4 minutes under canopy, calls on the five frequencies everyone is so proud of - last call on 135.7 with the seaplane possibly still starting up.....
Seriously if you are going to come on here and make accusations (make things up??), you'd think you might even get the time vaguely right.
Love your attention to detail, but it's all good, thanks to your "my bad" it was after your 2 hour swim you were confused on the time, but every thing else you say must be accurate.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: East Coast
Age: 46
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Ok, Underneath the Radar... I take it your name depicts the way you like to live your life... you try to sneak around spreading fictitious rumours without taking any accountability's for your own actions. Pretty Gutless I'd Say. You have caused a lot of issues on a number of different posts on different topics for a while now, and people are very quickly beginning to understand that a lot of what you are posting is far from the truth.
I take it you still haven't contacted the operator as a number of people have suggested... perhaps again showing the vendetta that you have against this particular operator and not being big enough to discuss the matters away from a site where you can hide behind a computer.
The Point Ormond Drop zone was the main topic of our monthly catch up with the group of 15 aircraft operators that I generally fly with, and the general consensus was that pilots operating in the Melb Coastal Route and Point Ormond area must take more accountability of their own actions and stop making excuses as to the different frequencies that they could be on.
It has been proven here this operator makes broadcasts on all appropriate frequencies and YMMB TWR, YMEN TWR, ML CEN, and ML DEP, all inform approaching traffic whenthe PJE aircraft is airborne and parachutes are in the air. If you still are not aware when/if parachutes will be in the air, then do as we do and either ask ML CEN and/or give the operators a call... C'mon sense right.
If you are not willing to make an effort, than it is due to your own laziness and stupidity that you are putting yourself and your passengers in danger.
As for your comments / accusations in regards to jumping through cloud, give it up, you obviously have a vendetta against them and I believe that on three different occasions that you have made such accusations you have been proven to be blatantly wrong each time. I understand that your complaints to the relevant bodies have been dismissed each time due to the evidence supplied by the operator... Video footage with a rerecorded date and time doesn't lie... Sounds like they are quiet a professional bunch that have covered all bases.
Video footage of the jumps in question prove beyond doubt that the skydivers did not enter cloud at anytime whilst the parachute was open and below 4000ft. A simple chat with the guys at the Point Ormond landing area and they were more than happy to oblige to show me the exact footage, proven by cross reference of the manifest with passenger name, date, time etc. You should pop in and have a look to put your mind at ease.
Also please go back and do your research a little better and you will notice that between the time that you went to swimming and the two hours later that you returned the YMEN and YMMB AWIS had obviously changed... actually did you wish to amend your previous observations and now suggest that you may have witnessed the skydivers jumping through cloud whilst you were staring at the bottom of the pool, beach, lake whatever it was that you were swimming in. No doubt it would be another fixation of your imagination... you would write a great childrens novel, probably go with one of the choose your own adventure type books, seems you are good at them.
Why am I / We so fed up with this? well that's because a number of my fellow aviator's have to waste our / their time responding, investigating and reporting on these false accusations. We have better things to use the resources of Airservices, CASA, APF, not to mention the operator in question on then wasting our/their valuable time, and money to once again investigate the matter in question only to find out that once again the aqusations are far from the truth.
If they are operating outside the rules, then quiet simply we will take action, but please do not waste our time chasing dead ends which once again this turned out to be.
So now that we have put issue number one to bed being:
1. "Potential breaking of the rules relating to parachute drops in cloud"...That they were not breaking any rules.
Tim to focus on Issue 2:
2. "Concern about the appropriateness of Pt Ormond due to the complexity of the airspace and high traffic AND over the preferred route for non TXP non radio aircraft".
Fair call perhaps but it has been approved with all required documentation provided. We along with most if not all operators in the local area received a letter outlining their intentions, operations etc from the operators in advance of when they first commenced operations and again the week before they began. This was the time to speak up and discuss any issues with the authority's / operator.
We as a group did speak to a member of management from the operator and discussed our concerns that perhaps they were going to be another cowboy skydive operator not willing to cooperate with the local operators. Upon completion of the hour long discussion we came away with a completely different attitude as they have proven to be a very well run and organised operation. They have been very courteous, cooperative and professional every time that we have spoken with them.
Anyway back to Issue 2.
Is a parachute in the airspace below 2500ft for approximately two (2) minutes every 60minutes as big a danger as the traffic flying around the area with no transponder and/or radio?
We personally do not think so, at least we know the parachutists are predictable and know what they are going to do, and where they are tracking for and attempting to land... far easier to safely manoeuvre around when you know their intentions and and speak to the PJE aircraft or ML CEN (not to mention YMMB and YMEN TWRs).
Elevator Drivers suggestion makes the most sense..."lets make it safer for all airspace users (including the skydivers) by making the Melbourne coastal route & other high volume traffic area's both radio and TXP mandatory". That would make life a lot easier for all of us.
Or is the number different frequencies available for use in that area the real issue? We believe that with correct training and education the frequencies in that area are very manageable. If you have an issue with the amount of frequencies then do it through the correct avenues and bring it up at an Industry or RAPAC meeting for discussion, websites such as this will get you nowhere.
At the end of the day, if you are unsure ask the question as to whether the parachutists are in the air, or for those aircraft that are not radio equipped, make a phone call during your flight planning stages and ask the operator. But most importantly do as we do and as most pilots do and keep a good lookout when flying through / past that area for not only the skydivers but other traffic. As pilots we all need to take responsibility and ownership of sharing our airspace.
I take it you still haven't contacted the operator as a number of people have suggested... perhaps again showing the vendetta that you have against this particular operator and not being big enough to discuss the matters away from a site where you can hide behind a computer.
The Point Ormond Drop zone was the main topic of our monthly catch up with the group of 15 aircraft operators that I generally fly with, and the general consensus was that pilots operating in the Melb Coastal Route and Point Ormond area must take more accountability of their own actions and stop making excuses as to the different frequencies that they could be on.
It has been proven here this operator makes broadcasts on all appropriate frequencies and YMMB TWR, YMEN TWR, ML CEN, and ML DEP, all inform approaching traffic whenthe PJE aircraft is airborne and parachutes are in the air. If you still are not aware when/if parachutes will be in the air, then do as we do and either ask ML CEN and/or give the operators a call... C'mon sense right.
If you are not willing to make an effort, than it is due to your own laziness and stupidity that you are putting yourself and your passengers in danger.
As for your comments / accusations in regards to jumping through cloud, give it up, you obviously have a vendetta against them and I believe that on three different occasions that you have made such accusations you have been proven to be blatantly wrong each time. I understand that your complaints to the relevant bodies have been dismissed each time due to the evidence supplied by the operator... Video footage with a rerecorded date and time doesn't lie... Sounds like they are quiet a professional bunch that have covered all bases.
Video footage of the jumps in question prove beyond doubt that the skydivers did not enter cloud at anytime whilst the parachute was open and below 4000ft. A simple chat with the guys at the Point Ormond landing area and they were more than happy to oblige to show me the exact footage, proven by cross reference of the manifest with passenger name, date, time etc. You should pop in and have a look to put your mind at ease.
Also please go back and do your research a little better and you will notice that between the time that you went to swimming and the two hours later that you returned the YMEN and YMMB AWIS had obviously changed... actually did you wish to amend your previous observations and now suggest that you may have witnessed the skydivers jumping through cloud whilst you were staring at the bottom of the pool, beach, lake whatever it was that you were swimming in. No doubt it would be another fixation of your imagination... you would write a great childrens novel, probably go with one of the choose your own adventure type books, seems you are good at them.
Why am I / We so fed up with this? well that's because a number of my fellow aviator's have to waste our / their time responding, investigating and reporting on these false accusations. We have better things to use the resources of Airservices, CASA, APF, not to mention the operator in question on then wasting our/their valuable time, and money to once again investigate the matter in question only to find out that once again the aqusations are far from the truth.
If they are operating outside the rules, then quiet simply we will take action, but please do not waste our time chasing dead ends which once again this turned out to be.
So now that we have put issue number one to bed being:
1. "Potential breaking of the rules relating to parachute drops in cloud"...That they were not breaking any rules.
Tim to focus on Issue 2:
2. "Concern about the appropriateness of Pt Ormond due to the complexity of the airspace and high traffic AND over the preferred route for non TXP non radio aircraft".
Fair call perhaps but it has been approved with all required documentation provided. We along with most if not all operators in the local area received a letter outlining their intentions, operations etc from the operators in advance of when they first commenced operations and again the week before they began. This was the time to speak up and discuss any issues with the authority's / operator.
We as a group did speak to a member of management from the operator and discussed our concerns that perhaps they were going to be another cowboy skydive operator not willing to cooperate with the local operators. Upon completion of the hour long discussion we came away with a completely different attitude as they have proven to be a very well run and organised operation. They have been very courteous, cooperative and professional every time that we have spoken with them.
Anyway back to Issue 2.
Is a parachute in the airspace below 2500ft for approximately two (2) minutes every 60minutes as big a danger as the traffic flying around the area with no transponder and/or radio?
We personally do not think so, at least we know the parachutists are predictable and know what they are going to do, and where they are tracking for and attempting to land... far easier to safely manoeuvre around when you know their intentions and and speak to the PJE aircraft or ML CEN (not to mention YMMB and YMEN TWRs).
Elevator Drivers suggestion makes the most sense..."lets make it safer for all airspace users (including the skydivers) by making the Melbourne coastal route & other high volume traffic area's both radio and TXP mandatory". That would make life a lot easier for all of us.
Or is the number different frequencies available for use in that area the real issue? We believe that with correct training and education the frequencies in that area are very manageable. If you have an issue with the amount of frequencies then do it through the correct avenues and bring it up at an Industry or RAPAC meeting for discussion, websites such as this will get you nowhere.
At the end of the day, if you are unsure ask the question as to whether the parachutists are in the air, or for those aircraft that are not radio equipped, make a phone call during your flight planning stages and ask the operator. But most importantly do as we do and as most pilots do and keep a good lookout when flying through / past that area for not only the skydivers but other traffic. As pilots we all need to take responsibility and ownership of sharing our airspace.
