Airline Pilots: Is Anybody Interested in Being One? (AVWEB)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new zealand
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you all think you are so smart then go and become doctors, lawyers, IT professionals! I mean who do you think you are!?!?! WE HAVE A F****** LICENCE!! It's not hard to self study ATPLs etc. then sit in the plane for 200 hours! Sure the average pilot is more intelligent than the usual folk but please don't get ahead of yourself!
Go and become a doctor then! I mean its so easy to sit around uni for 6 years then come out and get a job as a surgeon! Right? Or go and become a lawyer. Compete against hundreds, if not thousands, of other students just to get into the second year and when you graduate go push papers for years but hey you are a lawyer!!! Even better go get a commerce or a business degree! That way when you graduate you can join THOUSANDS of other poor bastards working in cafes and shopping centers who can't find jobs but HEY, YOU HAVE A BUSINESS DEGREE!
You all seem to be doing so well for yourself! Everyone comes here saying how much they earn in IT. I think people who fly for living literally don't give a ****, because I know that it beats sitting in front of the computer all day writing C++ for a living!
Doctors will never have to worry about being unemployed
You all seem to be doing so well for yourself! Everyone comes here saying how much they earn in IT. I think people who fly for living literally don't give a ****, because I know that it beats sitting in front of the computer all day writing C++ for a living!
Sassy,
Let's not get ahead of yourself.
Most commercial Pilots I know are very capable individuals. There are many different reasons why they choose the career, but ultimately the stayers are the ones with the grit and intelligance to stick it out.
These same folk could choose just about any career they set their minds too. Many had the academic results for entry into just about any university program they saw fit.
However most of us fell in love with aviation. We fell in love through a flight deck visit as a kid, or a family member that was/is a Pilot. Some fell in love watching them go overhead, maybe even on that first holiday with the family. We all fell in love with it hard.
So far to chase my dream it's been financial suicide. I spent everything I had on the dream. It's cost me a marriage, a domestic partner, my sanity
and the privlidge of being near my family. I've moved 9 houses in 5 years all rented. I don't think I'll ever be able to go home. Hell, it's a big world out there, I don't even think I really want to.
I didn't get to spend money on cars, houses, backyards and shares like my friends did. I go to their houses now, they have kids, outdoor kitchens with pizza ovens and granite bench tops. They are building ponds, installing pools and spas, home theatres, all sorts of things. They do up old cars, buy boats and jet skis, plus numerous other recreational toys. They talk about taking kids to child care, the next door neighbor who gives them the whoops, the family holiday to Bali or the inlaws and the old school days. It's all pretty laborious to me.
I own nothing except a ten year old car and some dodgy furniture. The bank balance is only just starting to recover after the last decade in the financial wilderness, but let me tell you this. The people I have met, the things I have seen, the places I have been and the aeroplanes I have flown have been amazing. I am rich with experience, rich with memories and my non aviation friends are fascinated when I speak about it. It's certainly more interesting than the shopping trip to kuta!
While I have some regrets about some of the decisions in my personal life, I get to fly an A320! It sure beats working for a living! And you know what? All of my friends call me the lucky one! I think I am too.
Good luck with it all folks. The stayers always get there. This struggler certainly did!
Let's not get ahead of yourself.
Most commercial Pilots I know are very capable individuals. There are many different reasons why they choose the career, but ultimately the stayers are the ones with the grit and intelligance to stick it out.
These same folk could choose just about any career they set their minds too. Many had the academic results for entry into just about any university program they saw fit.
However most of us fell in love with aviation. We fell in love through a flight deck visit as a kid, or a family member that was/is a Pilot. Some fell in love watching them go overhead, maybe even on that first holiday with the family. We all fell in love with it hard.
So far to chase my dream it's been financial suicide. I spent everything I had on the dream. It's cost me a marriage, a domestic partner, my sanity
and the privlidge of being near my family. I've moved 9 houses in 5 years all rented. I don't think I'll ever be able to go home. Hell, it's a big world out there, I don't even think I really want to.I didn't get to spend money on cars, houses, backyards and shares like my friends did. I go to their houses now, they have kids, outdoor kitchens with pizza ovens and granite bench tops. They are building ponds, installing pools and spas, home theatres, all sorts of things. They do up old cars, buy boats and jet skis, plus numerous other recreational toys. They talk about taking kids to child care, the next door neighbor who gives them the whoops, the family holiday to Bali or the inlaws and the old school days. It's all pretty laborious to me.
I own nothing except a ten year old car and some dodgy furniture. The bank balance is only just starting to recover after the last decade in the financial wilderness, but let me tell you this. The people I have met, the things I have seen, the places I have been and the aeroplanes I have flown have been amazing. I am rich with experience, rich with memories and my non aviation friends are fascinated when I speak about it. It's certainly more interesting than the shopping trip to kuta!
While I have some regrets about some of the decisions in my personal life, I get to fly an A320! It sure beats working for a living! And you know what? All of my friends call me the lucky one! I think I am too.
Good luck with it all folks. The stayers always get there. This struggler certainly did!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A positive post about being a pilot? Surely you jest, GG 
All those complaining about how bad they have it should eat their words, quit the industry, try something else and see if they can stand the monotony of flying a desk 9-6, five days a week.
All those complaining about how bad they have it should eat their words, quit the industry, try something else and see if they can stand the monotony of flying a desk 9-6, five days a week.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem of comparing careers is that no-one ever looks at the complete picture. Everyone just sees dollar signs *, guaranteed employment, or whatever they want to see without seeing any downside.
* (taken from the latest tabloid press about what that profession earns)
Has it occurred to some of you that in a mythical place like PDrRuNe or PLLBRuNe there are doctors and lawyers complaining about their work and how they should become a pilot because we all earn $500k p.a. and work 25 hours per week?
It's obvious that some of you guys have absolutely no idea about other professions, except what you get from the media. (And we know how accurate the media are...
)
I know a few Doctors and Lawyers and I was an I.T. professional for 18 years. Trust me; it's not all rosy in those professions.
Medicine: Years at Uni, doing one of the more expensive degrees. Work as an intern, then resident at a major hospital. Reasonable wage, but you're working over 80 hours per week and have to study as well. One of my friends had 120 hours as the record he'd worked in a week!
The hours don't drop to something reasonable (like 45 hours per week) until a few years have gone by, and if you want to get to the dizzying heights of Surgeon (be called Mr, instead of Dr) there are years more study.
Someone mentioned Guaranteed employment? Sure, but where? You've got to be in the top 10% to get based in a capital city hospital.
GP? Sure, plenty. Mainly in the country, but you're working well over 40 hours per week; high pressure environment (lots of patients); and poorly paid and lower status than other branches of the profession.
And any medical discipline requires continuous study!
Law Depends, really. Assuming you've got the marks (or connections) to get into a major firm you'll get well paid, but will work well over 50 hours per week for the next ten or so years (assuming you want to become a partner).
Plenty of other legal work out there. Want to become a Barrister? Easy! Join the queue. Problem is, you wont earn much unless you've got solicitors behind you putting work your way. Many Barristers don't earn much at all until they've established a reputation. Some never do.
I.T. It's been a little while since I left I.T, but while graduates can earn up to 60k, many more earn in the 40's - 50's. Full-timers can expect to work more than 40 hours per week (no overtime) and generally don't earn above 100k until they're very senior. Contractors earn more, but you've got to maintain not only your skill set, but you've got to gain experience in the skill set (very hard to get a contract in a skill that you've just learned; they want some years experience in that skill).
Almost all the people I knew in their 20's have changed their careers. All the people I knew in I.T. have either left or are unhappy in their workplace but can't leave due financial reasons. Every lawyer I knew who went to Law after uni are now in other professions (except my friend who quit Blakes after becoming a partner. She is now the legal rep at a homewares company). Of my doctor friends, only one is still happy with his choice. He's now a Surgeon, but still works two days per week in Ballarat as there isn't a full-time position for him in Melbourne. One is a GP in Wangaratta (couldn't get a job in a Melbourne hospital), one is an anaesthetist and hates it, and the other one "dropped out" and is now working for MSF. Her job is very rewarding and challenging, but she earns less than $20,000.00 per year.
Moral: Be careful when comparing with other professions. You might not be as badly off as you think you are.
DIVOSH!
* (taken from the latest tabloid press about what that profession earns)
Has it occurred to some of you that in a mythical place like PDrRuNe or PLLBRuNe there are doctors and lawyers complaining about their work and how they should become a pilot because we all earn $500k p.a. and work 25 hours per week?
It's obvious that some of you guys have absolutely no idea about other professions, except what you get from the media. (And we know how accurate the media are...
)I know a few Doctors and Lawyers and I was an I.T. professional for 18 years. Trust me; it's not all rosy in those professions.
Medicine: Years at Uni, doing one of the more expensive degrees. Work as an intern, then resident at a major hospital. Reasonable wage, but you're working over 80 hours per week and have to study as well. One of my friends had 120 hours as the record he'd worked in a week!
The hours don't drop to something reasonable (like 45 hours per week) until a few years have gone by, and if you want to get to the dizzying heights of Surgeon (be called Mr, instead of Dr) there are years more study.
Someone mentioned Guaranteed employment? Sure, but where? You've got to be in the top 10% to get based in a capital city hospital.
GP? Sure, plenty. Mainly in the country, but you're working well over 40 hours per week; high pressure environment (lots of patients); and poorly paid and lower status than other branches of the profession.
And any medical discipline requires continuous study!
Law Depends, really. Assuming you've got the marks (or connections) to get into a major firm you'll get well paid, but will work well over 50 hours per week for the next ten or so years (assuming you want to become a partner).
Plenty of other legal work out there. Want to become a Barrister? Easy! Join the queue. Problem is, you wont earn much unless you've got solicitors behind you putting work your way. Many Barristers don't earn much at all until they've established a reputation. Some never do.
I.T. It's been a little while since I left I.T, but while graduates can earn up to 60k, many more earn in the 40's - 50's. Full-timers can expect to work more than 40 hours per week (no overtime) and generally don't earn above 100k until they're very senior. Contractors earn more, but you've got to maintain not only your skill set, but you've got to gain experience in the skill set (very hard to get a contract in a skill that you've just learned; they want some years experience in that skill).
Almost all the people I knew in their 20's have changed their careers. All the people I knew in I.T. have either left or are unhappy in their workplace but can't leave due financial reasons. Every lawyer I knew who went to Law after uni are now in other professions (except my friend who quit Blakes after becoming a partner. She is now the legal rep at a homewares company). Of my doctor friends, only one is still happy with his choice. He's now a Surgeon, but still works two days per week in Ballarat as there isn't a full-time position for him in Melbourne. One is a GP in Wangaratta (couldn't get a job in a Melbourne hospital), one is an anaesthetist and hates it, and the other one "dropped out" and is now working for MSF. Her job is very rewarding and challenging, but she earns less than $20,000.00 per year.
Moral: Be careful when comparing with other professions. You might not be as badly off as you think you are.
DIVOSH!
You just have to have a goal and a series of gates that you need to achieve x by.
If I wasn't in a major jet airline by 30, my backup plan as I loved regional flying was to head home and fly for a well known major regional, or dust off the instructor rating and instruct until I got in.
As I spent longer and longer in the industry, the plan slightly changed to perhaps include the possibility of the floats in Cairns wearing pluggas and a Hawaiian shirt to work every day
. Or even at one stage flying a choppper! That may also have been the sanity issue that I spoke about earlier too 
However, I made all the gates that I had picked for myself and just scraped into a major airline before my 30th birthday after spending some time as a regional Captain.
Was it all worth it?
You bet
What was the best flying? Single engine piston charter without a doubt, it was very very satisfying!!!
Most satisfying moment? The fourth bar on my shoulder in a regional. I worked bloody hard for that!
It's not the size of the dog that determines the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Keep fighting!!
If I wasn't in a major jet airline by 30, my backup plan as I loved regional flying was to head home and fly for a well known major regional, or dust off the instructor rating and instruct until I got in.
As I spent longer and longer in the industry, the plan slightly changed to perhaps include the possibility of the floats in Cairns wearing pluggas and a Hawaiian shirt to work every day
. Or even at one stage flying a choppper! That may also have been the sanity issue that I spoke about earlier too However, I made all the gates that I had picked for myself and just scraped into a major airline before my 30th birthday after spending some time as a regional Captain.
Was it all worth it?
You bet
What was the best flying? Single engine piston charter without a doubt, it was very very satisfying!!!
Most satisfying moment? The fourth bar on my shoulder in a regional. I worked bloody hard for that!
It's not the size of the dog that determines the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Keep fighting!!
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 16th Jan 2012 at 06:38.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little night music, sir?.
We all fell in love with it hard.
That's it. M tas all.
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
Walks away scratchin arse, muttering "bloody shamatuers".
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Straya
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Autopilots ruins it?
Hey guys,
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
Cheers
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
Cheers
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Di Vosh!
The problem of comparing careers is that no-one ever looks at the complete picture. Everyone just sees dollar signs *, guaranteed employment, or whatever they want to see without seeing any downside.
* (taken from the latest tabloid press about what that profession earns)
Has it occurred to some of you that in a mythical place like PDrRuNe or PLLBRuNe there are doctors and lawyers complaining about their work and how they should become a pilot because we all earn $500k p.a. and work 25 hours per week?
It's obvious that some of you guys have absolutely no idea about other professions, except what you get from the media. (And we know how accurate the media are... )
I know a few Doctors and Lawyers and I was an I.T. professional for 18 years. Trust me; it's not all rosy in those professions.
* (taken from the latest tabloid press about what that profession earns)
Has it occurred to some of you that in a mythical place like PDrRuNe or PLLBRuNe there are doctors and lawyers complaining about their work and how they should become a pilot because we all earn $500k p.a. and work 25 hours per week?
It's obvious that some of you guys have absolutely no idea about other professions, except what you get from the media. (And we know how accurate the media are... )
I know a few Doctors and Lawyers and I was an I.T. professional for 18 years. Trust me; it's not all rosy in those professions.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Its a serious case of 'the grass is always greener'
If you ever want to know what career NOT to enter, ask someone in it.
The guys sitting around here blowing steam about everything bad that is aviation, have probably never worked at another career.
I can sit here for hours and tell you everything bad about panel beating, and why you should never let your kids enter the industry.......as i sit here nursing my hand injury that has healed enough now to reveal how much nerve damage i inflicted. Instead, i'll do a short comparison.
PB. I start the day clean, end it filthy.
Fly. I start the day clean, end it clean
PB. I have to kneel down for extended periods, and struggle to stand again.
Fly. I might have to kneel down to check something in my preflight, but I am not down long enough that my knees seize up.
PB. Every job/task carries an injury risk. At last count, there are over 45 stitches in my body directly related to work. (we won't count the ones from growing up)
Fly. Your biggest injury risk is RSI from writing, falling off a wing or having a cowl whack you in the back of the head, because you were too lazy to secure it properly whilst doing your engine checks.
PB. Customers that think they know something about what you do, and ask you to do the impossible....i.e make something fit that not even the factory can get perfect....read.. all you commodore owners, go and have a CLOSE look at how well the front and rear bars fit. then try telling your repairer it fitted better than that from new!
Fly. You only have to get your customers to their destination intact. they won't complain...not to you anyway, and they won't ask you to do the impossible.
Management...same for both careers.
Any career is what you make of it.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dancing Dog.
Autopilots ruins it?
Hey guys,
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
Hey guys,
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
What about flight preparation, keeping up with the latest techniques, rules and laws?
Being a pilot, even a recreational one, isn't for the mentally lazy. There is ALWAYS something new to learn. Always something to keep the brain occupied.
Sure sitting up the front of a high speed test tube isn't for everyone, but there is more to aviation than hauling self moving freight.
Originally Posted by Sassy91
Moral of the story.
Start young so you don't have to go through "financial suicide" when you are 30, have a wife, kids and a mortgage.
Start young so you don't have to go through "financial suicide" when you are 30, have a wife, kids and a mortgage.
Quote:
Autopilots ruins it?
Hey guys,
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
There is more to a pilot career than flying the aeroplane.
What about flight preparation, keeping up with the latest techniques, rules and laws?
Being a pilot, even a recreational one, isn't for the mentally lazy. There is ALWAYS something new to learn. Always something to keep the brain occupied.
Sure sitting up the front of a high speed test tube isn't for everyone, but there is more to aviation than hauling self moving freight.
Autopilots ruins it?
Hey guys,
Do you guys find the job kinda boring, especially on the long haul flights, because your sitting there for a few hours at a time staring at an instrument panel? I know single and small twins are kinda different, I'm just after a general view for most commercial aircraft. I suppose it beats staring at a computer all day though.
There is more to a pilot career than flying the aeroplane.
What about flight preparation, keeping up with the latest techniques, rules and laws?
Being a pilot, even a recreational one, isn't for the mentally lazy. There is ALWAYS something new to learn. Always something to keep the brain occupied.
Sure sitting up the front of a high speed test tube isn't for everyone, but there is more to aviation than hauling self moving freight.
I do love aviation, but have never understood the attraction of the airlines. My favorite moments in aviation have been when I was flying at low level over bushfires, through valleys in Timor carrying supplies or MEDEVACs, dropping supplies and life rafts to the crew of sunken yachts and dropping LAPES platforms from Caribous flying at 6' AGL in firebreaks. Never has cruising S & L in the flight levels held any appeal. So yes, I should be out, and hopefully will be soon. It has nothing to do with not putting in the hard yards though.
Di Vosh, you are quite right with regard to other professions and greener pastures. My wife has perhaps had a charmed run since graduation. She is on six figures after just four years in the legal industry and only works 9-5 Monday to Friday; with every weekend and public holiday off. That's working for a very large company (approx. 400,000 employees).
For those of you that do fly airliners, or desire to, what is it that attracts you to it? I have asked friends who fly them but I never get a straight answer. One who flies Dash 8s likes the hand flying and short sectors. Another who flies A320s says it's all about picking up women! (he has sacrificed a LOT to get there). So what is it for you guys?
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new zealand
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My wife has perhaps had a charmed run since graduation. She is on six figures after just four years in the legal industry and only works 9-5 Monday to Friday; with every weekend and public holiday off. That's working for a very large company (approx. 400,000 employees).
One guy I used to work with told me with a straight face that he got into aviation for the prestige!
Some years ago I had among my passengers from Asia a large group of newly-recruited China Southern cadets on board for Perth, for training in W.A., all with shiny new pilot cases in hand.
I saw them off at the door of the aircraft on arrival on a gorgeous Perth day to wish them well, but they had expressions on their faces as if they were lambs going to the slaughter, instead of embarking on training to be an airline pilot, something that many Westerners would 'kill for'. I got a smile out of one, who I assume would have gone on to be 'the pick of the litter'.
I saw them off at the door of the aircraft on arrival on a gorgeous Perth day to wish them well, but they had expressions on their faces as if they were lambs going to the slaughter, instead of embarking on training to be an airline pilot, something that many Westerners would 'kill for'. I got a smile out of one, who I assume would have gone on to be 'the pick of the litter'.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 20th Jan 2012 at 01:08.
