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View Poll Results: Are you likely to sign the petition?
Yes. I agree with the Petition.
327
75.69%
I agree with the Petition but am concerned at reprisals.
61
14.12%
No.
10
2.31%
I disagree with the Petition.
34
7.87%
Voters: 432. This poll is closed

No Confidence. Vote here.

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Old 14th Dec 2011, 08:11
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I note a late surge of non agreement on the poll.

Who said CASA were'nt on the ball?
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 01:50
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Root Cause





Could this be the the reason the place is such a mess???

John McCormick. Started flying in 1974. Career highlights – Cathay Pacific (worth the research). Regulatory reform program – No greater success than the previous incumbents over almost a quarter of a century

Jonathan Aleck . Career highlights- Lecturing law in PNG. Years at CASA = 18. Regulatory reform program – Still not finished, 23 years and counting

David Gray. Managing director of Boeing for 11 years. Whoopty doo.
Regulatory reform value adding = 0

Allan Hawke. Government beauracrat and public service employee since 1974, 37 years. Say no more.
Regulatory reform value adding = 0


Helen Gillies – 20 year corporate lawyer.
Regulatory reform value adding = 0


Trevor Danos - Has practised law for over 30 years. Big Deal.
Regulatory reform value adding = 0

Terry Farquaharson - Started flying in 1964, well before Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Years at CASA = 12. Regulatory reform program - Still not finished , 23 years and counting.


Isn't this supposed to be aviation and safety? We have pensioners, has-beens, lawyers, bureaucrats - no wonder the job is not getting done.

Last edited by gobbledock; 15th Dec 2011 at 03:01.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 02:13
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And guess who the government has as experts to respond to the 22 Senate inquiry recommendations??..Anyone?? Those very same numbnuts!

That is why the Governments response looks and reads like this:
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committ...nse_221111.pdf

There goes another couple of mil of wasted taxpayers money!
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 02:29
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Next time I see a Dole Bludger I'll shake his hand and congratulate him for only taking $10,000 pa from the public purse. (Of which he puts 10% back in GST at the Pub or Supermarket). I'll even apologise to him for all the bad things I've heard and repeated about him as being the main cause of the dependence on welfare being a problem for taxpaying Australians.

Bludgers indeed!
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 03:00
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Ther's a big surprise.

"Well, well who'da thunk it, eh, blow me down", (slaps leg is amazement).

Is there an additional per dium for consulting I wonder, Christmas coming up and all.

Tick, tock, Tick, tock. Indeed.




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Old 15th Dec 2011, 03:26
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Consultants Yes Yes

Oh yes, would be good to pull some data out of the yearly CASA report which lists consultant companies and money spent. It is always fun perusing the stats and seeing which former employee's have earned a tidy sum providing consultancy work. I gave up scrutinizing the finer details as it was all too sickening, however I might do some data analysis if for anything to simply share the info with all who are interested. Who knows, maybe Senator X or an open minded Journo like Paul Phelan would be interested?
And I would like to see a full break down of the amount of money, fees, bonuses and expenses incurred by the "Magnificent Seven'?
Maybe some of them have even needed to purchase extra office items such as blood pressure tablets, zimmer frames and adult nappies as some of the dinosaurs are pushing the age barrier? Must be good money staying in the public service hey?



oink oink
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 04:22
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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senate recommendations...Casa responses.

Love ya work...!

Rec. 18 ..." CASA require operators to observe the highest standards of incident reporting from their personnel"

Great pity CASA doesnt require that from THEIR personnel.!

Rec 19 ..." in order to enhance a 'just culture' and open reporting operators are to ensure... adequate training in procedural fairness."

Great pity CASA doesnt require that from THEIR personel.!

Why is all this stuff a one way street.? Must be that old "dont do as I do, do as I SAY" syndrome.

Interesting to note that most recs. had something to eventuate in "late 2011"
or 2012, possibly. Maybe a typo should really read 2102.

The spin is so acute I feel dizzy...
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 09:31
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Gross stupidity

Well, well well; I go away for a couple of months and look what has happened here!

The usual 'CASA' bashers up to their old tricks: pull something out of the air, post it on PPRune, mix in a few abusive mates, wait a few posts (preferably until there is a new page of posts) and you can cook up a case where you quote yourself as a harbinger of FACT!

Where is 'CASAWEARY'? Is he/she still worried about the federal police?

Anyway, I am not interested in CASA, it is the intellectual fraud that gets to me about this.

But lets see what this is all about. Off to the Senate with a petition are we?

Well, if we look at the numbers that are in the public domain:

1. Pilots in OZ: approx 30,000.
2. LAMEs in OZ: approx 7000.

On the top line of the equation: your petition supporters, add in those who 'fear retribution' for good measure and what do you get with this recipe?

A dissatisfied percentage of .7%!!!

It would be a total waste of my taxes for the Senate to cough up for an enquiry.

Plus, there are some things that the odd (no pun intended) person of the more vocal variety here may have to consider (I could be wrong, I don't work in absolutes):
e.g. police still considering very serious charges over the death at night of a single pilot into Botany Bay from some time ago;

CASA finding out about a certain Wilga that is now in Boonah that EVERYONE knows had an illegal fuel modification done to it sometime by someone when the aircraft was in North Queensland (not done well though, it leaked)

And lastly

Some person has chosen to vilify practicing lawyers.

Oh dear; no other comment required.

So, I agree; things could be better but it may take more horsepower from those pursuing it than has been demonstrated here.

Oh and don't forget, when you reply remember to move rapidly to attack me rather than debate the issues.

FF
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 09:54
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Welcome back flyingfiend

Agh yes, right on cue! The CASA spin machine hits panick mode!
Long time in between jousts my robust friend!

Well, well wll; I go away for a couple of months and look what has happened here!
That certainly was a long international rort on this occasion, several months in Montreal?

Where is 'CASAWEARY'? Is he/she still worried about the federal police?
Good question, he/she always had entertaining posts. Perhaps the Feds have locked he/she up? Then again, perhaps he/she got an inside tip, that would be illegal of course, but just maybe. How else would he/she know thae Feds were after he/she?

Anyway, I am not interested in CASA,
Oh come on, attacking CASA is like touching the pupil of your eye! You are surely one very sensitive member of their inner sanctum.

It would be a total waste of my taxes for the Senate to cough up for an enquiry.
But it isn't a total waste of my taxes paying for you as a regulator to receive corporate bonuses? Oh my how your hypocrisy know's no bounds.

CASA finding out about a certain Wilga that is now in Boonah that EVERYONE knows had an illegal fuel modification done to it sometime by someone when the aircraft was in North Queensland (not done well though, it leaked)
I hope that information is already public. It is a federal and public service offence for a public servant to leak sensitive information you know? Oh I forgot, you only post from internet cafe's that have no overhead CCTV. Don't stress, keep leaking!

Some person has chosen to vilify practicing lawyers.
How dare they, isn't that just awful.

Oh and don't forget, when you reply remember to move rapidly to attack me rather than debate the issues.
Debating is much more entertaining. As for moving rapidly well you would not know about that, being a public servant and all. How about I move as rapidly as the regulatory reform program?
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 09:56
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Well, well well; I go away for a couple of months
Obviously in a time warp in a parallel Universe.

Some person has chosen to vilify practicing lawyers
Bugga me! you must be one of them, or so close up their bum as to make you an accomplice.

What a dope.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 10:01
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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What a dope.
Frank, very much so, as he is either a lawyer, part of their inner sanctum or an FOI.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 12:31
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Oh and don't forget, when you reply remember to move rapidly to attack me rather than debate the issues.
Well, if you insist...
Some person has chosen to vilify practicing lawyers
Practising. By a C not with a C, so the saying goes.

It's like being a Mormon or a used car salesman. Joke doing the rounds in the sleepy city... a local firm has gone bad with a number of lawyers laid off without prior notice, allegedly bills, wages and super have not been paid, all the usual sludge but the partners are still driving around in fancy cars to much condemnation from the legal fraternity. The joke is of course; when even the sharks are calling you a scum sucking, bottom dwelling shyster, you must be pretty low... A lawyer joke from the lawyers (and they have a strange sense of humour). Suffice to say, they're pretty used to it and I doubt they need a person with a sword to fight on their behalf...which is of course how barristers started in any case.
So, I agree; things could be better but it may take more horsepower from those pursuing it than has been demonstrated here.
Your suggestion? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? What can the average aviating citizen do when they are dissatisfied with a regulator and frustrated with its perceived shortcomings, except complain on the internet? Letters go unanswered, pollies don't care and aviation's too hard for them to figure out even if they did. As you've stated, petitions do jack all... These days the actual frontline CASA staff are harder to spot in the wild than bilbies, and when you do you often wish you hadn't... What to do?

Lawyers are good at interpreting points of law and being swordsman for their clients. Whether they are good at running government departments is more questionable, particularly in relation to goodwill and industry liaison.

When there is no industry trust in a regulator, the regulator may as well pack up and retire to a burrow in Canberra. IME (with a different regulator), 95+% of people generally do the right thing or want to do the right thing if it doesn't cost them too much money or paperwork. When the regulator won't dialogue with the 95% and the 5% keep getting away with it, you can hardly blame people for being CASA skeptics.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 15th Dec 2011 at 13:36.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 18:15
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It is absolutely amazing;

Just to think about it. Ms. Gillard runs the country and every day must be concerned about what the people think, how they will react to policy, law, overseas actions and the eternal, never ending press. She seems to take the brickbats and the bouquets with equal grace and often humour. Mr Bob Brown daily faces public, party and media criticism, Mr. Abbott probably gets a daily dose of the very same medicine.

My local council, the State Government, the Head of the armed forces, the Head of the Police force, the guy who runs the garbage truck services, all of 'em, at one time or another catch a load of flack.

Funny though, never seem to hear veiled threats from them, never see them reach for the Federal Police, rarely have they taken public umbrage with a private citizen expressing a view, voicing concern or even daring to protest.

But CASA, ah well that's a horse of a different colour. The difference is of course that the above-mentioned public servants know they are not above the law, that they are accountable for the taxpayer money they spend, they are responsible, to the people for their blunders and triumphs,

So, CASA is different – please explain why ?.

Just because they say so, don't cut to much ice.

Yours sincerely.

A very angry, disappointed industry. (You know, remember, the one you are paid to serve).

Well, we are waiting, a bit like pigeons waiting for a statue to be unveiled.

Last edited by Kharon; 15th Dec 2011 at 18:21. Reason: Comma's tricky little bludgers.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 20:12
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The trouble is that CASA's 'bullyboy' regime has been re-inforced by the Government giving them another pot of money (budget increase of 89mil)!

Meanwhile the mob next door (ATSB), that could possibly keep them honest, is hamstrung by a lack of funds. Ever noticed how when the ATSB is under the pump and feeling media pressure (Jetstar incident prompts CASA to lift its oversight | Plane Talking ) how all their day to day functions fall behind e.g. Weekly Summaries.

Not that I think Ben is wrong in condemning the safety watchdog, I just think he is going at the wrong side of the double-headed watch dog!

Not only has the government (again) fallen into the trap of throwing money at a perceived problem, but they have thrown that money at the wrong side of the watch dog!
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Old 16th Dec 2011, 22:59
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The flying f...kwit should perhaps post a thread
regarding the brilliant world class job CASA is doing.
What better way of countering all this negativity from a tiny
minority of unwashed rabble.
Educate us on:
How Australia leads the world in air safety.
How we have a vibrant, growing industry .
How our standards of training are so high, much higher than the rest of the world.
How Manufacturers are lining up to open factories here because CASA experts are so brilliant that to build an aircraft without their input would
be sure to fail.
How our regulations are the envy of the world, for their simplicity and effectivness, that even ICAO and the FAA seek CASA advice.
How CASA is a model litigant, striving to promote truth and justice, always prepared to admit when they may have got it wrong and ensuring they correct and miscarriages.
Or are CASA's spin doctors running out of ideas?
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 00:43
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FF ...correction.

Flyingfiend. Unfortunately your pro CASA mouth is far bigger than yr mind.!
But I do acknowlege it is a rumour network after all.

Re the Wilga you know so much about.?

I'm surprised you didnt put a whole lot of exclamation marks after EVERYONE in capitals, in yr excitement to spread the word. Did you wet yourself with the excitement of your CASA factual revelation.

In the 15 years I owned that aircraft, the fuel line mod for a long range tank that the Kiwi guys did, but put it on a ship instead... never leaked.

But then again you say "you dont work in absolutes" Thats for fn sure.

Your call, DIPSTICK.
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Old 17th Dec 2011, 02:14
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And of course how can we forget that in depth prosecution of the illegal modification to another Wilga in Qld where the owner had split the one piece elevator and made it into a two piece affair. It's possible the owner thought by adding elevaileronsrudderco-ordinator it could do split arse turns. Poor sod got caught taking one of the elevators off for a look without looking over his shoulder for the Stasi.
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 02:53
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CASA screws it's staff - Latest

CASA Execs at it again...read below




It seems that although the Regulator received a tasty top up to the bottomless trough by around $89 million, they still dont have enough cash to cover the executives salaries, bonuses and never ending inetrnational travel to exotic wank fests:

CASA UPDATE:
CASA UPDATE: “CASA WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS CLAIM ANY FURTHER”
Posted on December 15, 2011 by APESMA

On 14 and 15 December, further bargaining meetings for the new CASA Enterprise Agreement were held in Melbourne/Canberra.
Your current agreement expired on 30 November 2011 and every day that goes by all members are further disadvantaged and, in real terms, worse off. CASA knows this.
As members have seen these negotiations have been marred by continued delays from the Authority. This includes delays in putting forward CASA’s bargaining position and delays in responding to union claims.
In the latest example, CASA representatives had specifically committed to respond, in writing, with CASA’s final position on the key outstanding claims by COB Friday 9 December. This did not happen and CASA’s position was not even available for the next meeting, the following Wednesday (14 December).
When CASA did eventually deliver their final response it was a dismissive response of, and failed to address, members’ key claims, and refused further discussions:
“As CASA has reiterated its position, CASA will not discuss this claim any further.” (CASA letter dated 14 December 2011)
That response also said CASA has had a reduction in revenue and it has proposed a short 18 month agreement with only 3% pa proposed salary rise which CASA said it was “all CASA can realistically afford”.
CASA also claims that government has mandated that “CASA (along with every other federal government agency) deliver a 2.5% efficiency dividend.” How much of that 2.5% is achieved by denying your increase, or refusing to agree to backpay to the date your current agreement expired (1 December 2011)?
Instead CASA is suggesting your next pay increase should be delayed until March/April 2012. That delay is enough to cover “efficiency dividends” for the next three years!!!!
KEY MEMBER CLAIMS – All rejected by CASA
The following are the key issues outstanding from the Unions log of claims which CASA have rejected:
  • Wage rise of 4.5% per annum
  • Backpay to expiry of current agreement
  • Length of the Agreement – CASA wants a short term agreement – why?
  • TOIL for additional hours worked for employees above CSL3
  • Superannuation guaranteed at 15.4% in the agreement
  • Pay parity and addressing AWA rates
  • Value of proposed ASR 2C pay point
  • Removal of hard barrier between ASR3 and ASR 3B
  • Acknowledge increased responsibilities in CMT pay structure
  • Recognition of ASR qualifications
  • The effects of Part 66 on Licensed AME AWIs
  • AWI Endorsement Loadings and Licence Payments
  • (non absorption of ) NVG allowances
  • Extend type endorsement loadings
  • Replace ATPL with CPL in rotary wing
  • Delegates Rights
DELAYS CAUSE MEMBERS LOSS
Continued delays in negotiations and addressing members’ claims have resulted in no new agreement being reached since the expiry of the current agreement on 30 November 2011.
The CASA workforce knows of CASA’s history of delaying enterprise agreements.
This means delayed wage increases, with a corresponding loss to superannuation benefits and other entitlements, with members suffering financial losses caused by CASA. While delays disadvantage every CASA employee, CASA has dismissed the contribution every employee has made to the Authority’s efficiency and operation.
Employees have cooperated with every CASA initiative. These are some:
  • move from Moorabbin to Melbourne,
  • similar plans to relocate Bankstown and Sydney;
  • rationalisation of the Brisbane office
  • restructure of the regions generally;
  • trial of CMT in the Melbourne Office;
  • purported implementation of CMT in Melbourne and Central region
These changes are surely not about less efficiency, less productivity, less enhancement of safety.
Yet CASA refuses to recognise your contribution. Government wages policy provides for increases over and above the minimum 3% where productivity and efficiency is demonstrated.
Why does not CASA not acknowledge your contribution to what it refers to as:
“… improved services to industry” and “a stronger capacity to deliver our key services”, and “enhanc(ing) our capacity to manage resources”. (CASA letter dated 14 December 2011)
Instead CASA insists you are only worth the minimum, and you do not deserve back-pay.
ESCALATION NEEDED: INDUSTRIAL ACTION?
It is now clear that further progress in negotiations will depend upon escalating your campaign. One option for escalating the campaign is to run a protected action ballot.
Protected Industrial Action is a last resort but is sometimes necessary to demonstrate that employees are serious about achieving fair improvements to conditions.
Before Protected Action can be taken a ballot must be held where a majority of Union Members who vote must vote to approve the potential types of industrial action proposed as protected action.
Before the ballot can be held an application must be made to Fair Work Australia.
Unions will be talking to delegates and members about support for making a protected action ballot before Christmas.
To facilitate this, therefore, the Unions are in the process of preparing applications to Fair Work Australia for approval to hold protected industrial actions ballots.
HAVE YOU JOINED YOUR UNION?
The important point to take on board is that only union members are entitled to vote in a protected action ballot (and then take industrial action). Whilst CASA won’t know names of people who voted the numbers of members who vote and how they vote will be declared after the ballot.
Without enough members voting the result of the ballot, and any subsequent action may not be significant enough to affect the Authority.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
Every CASA employee needs to ask themselves if they want to take what is offered:
  • a 2% pay increase almost five months after your current agreement expired, and then
  • another 2.5% around 15 months later (based on CASA proposed time frames);
  • with few, if any, improvements to conditions,
  • and a range of selected cuts.
or if it’s time to send a message.
If you’re not a union member- it’s time to join, if you are – talk to your colleagues and Reps about making the Authority take you seriously.

SO WHAT IS CASA DOING NOW?
CASA’s ‘final’ position was reiterated at today’s meeting (15 December), and was rejected in totality. CASA’s response is that it proposes to go to the workforce to seek your feedback, directly.
CASA employees will no doubt be ecstatic to learn that three weeks after your current agreement expired the Authority is now interested in your views.
Should they ask you, let them know you are fed up with their delays and cuts – your negotiators have.
In so far as arranging further meetings – the unions have said we are available at any time to meet as soon as CASA a reasonable position to discuss. Their ‘final’ position is not reasonable.
Instead, the next meeting is tentatively scheduled for 16 January 2012. That says it all really!!
Of interest is how CASA waited until the Executives received their 2011 bonus payments and waited until Albanese had his ludicrous unjustified snivelling salary rise before they dropped this poo bomb on the inspectors? Perhaps The Skull, Joyce and Albanese are closer friends than one expected? Same mantra.
To save money CASA has even made sure that the positions of CMT Leaders go to current team leaders, the majority of which are complete knobs, but are already on a higher payscale, and that is the only reason they got the jobs.
And why has around a dozen safety system inspectors and safety system specialists quit in 18 months?
Is the threat of strike action the reason why the HR Manager got pushed?

Fort Fumble cannot manage aviation safety, compliance, the regulatory reform program, industry, its finances or its own people.....What does this tell you? Time for all those aging executives to pick up their zimmer frames and retire with their fat bank accounts and be gone once and for all. Take Albanese while you are at it.

Wanted - One good Senator with a huge wrecking ball..Apply now!!
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 04:54
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Noted downturn

Noting a sudden downturn in the "Not playing/not voting" numbers perhaps.

Long live the fifth column
.
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Old 19th Dec 2011, 22:28
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Last bit

I've been informed that the response to the petition has been emailed to everyone who signed.

If anyone who did sign, has not got a copy of the reponse report please PM me and I'll see what can be done.


Thanks Mod's, thanks troops and merry Christmas to one and all excepting
(
--)
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