MERGED: Petrol exempt from carbon tax. Aviation included?
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's hard to avoid thinking that Malcolm Turnbull isn't Kevin Rudd's Liberal doppelganger.
The parallels, apart from both being ditched from the leadership by their respective Parties, are striking.
- both are independently (very) rich;
- both consider themselves (possibly with good reason) to be infinitely more intelligent than the person who replaced (knifed?) them, along with everyone else within their Parties who collaborated in their knifing;
- both were/are (in political terms at least) demagogues, with personalities definitely not suited to democratic politics. Rudd was/is a micro manager who wanted to control every aspect of every policy right down to a level that could and should have been handled by the office boy - and would/will brook no contrary opinion; Turnbull had/has the personality and management style of a CEO. He (and only he) would make a decision and expect it to acted upon without further discussion and could see no need for compromise, that all important word which is the 'meat and three veg' of political life.
As such, for all their admirable intelligence and good traits, (and even after considering the faults of the duo who have replaced them), neither was - and is - suitable for the leadership position.
If the current political situation was a Greek tragedy, (which many would say it definitely is), Malcolm and Kevin would be two characters connected to the same puppeteer's one set of strings, each condenmed to do whatever the other does - and in this (hopefully final) Act, their joint task would seem to be to wilfully destroy their respective leader.
Along with many others, I have some misgivings about Tony Abbott, but I can't help but feel that Labor see him as a very effective and very dangerous Leader of the Opposition. If he was the disaster they and their compliant mainstream media continually keep reminding us he is, they wouldn't be saying a word of criticism about him, for they'd want him to remain in the leadership position. (And for those who might try to draw a parallel to the Libs' criticism of Juliar Gillard, it doesn't wash - Leaders of the Opposition can't enact terribly damaging and controversial policies, especially policies they promised immediately before the election that they would not enact; Prime Ministers can.)
The parallels, apart from both being ditched from the leadership by their respective Parties, are striking.
- both are independently (very) rich;
- both consider themselves (possibly with good reason) to be infinitely more intelligent than the person who replaced (knifed?) them, along with everyone else within their Parties who collaborated in their knifing;
- both were/are (in political terms at least) demagogues, with personalities definitely not suited to democratic politics. Rudd was/is a micro manager who wanted to control every aspect of every policy right down to a level that could and should have been handled by the office boy - and would/will brook no contrary opinion; Turnbull had/has the personality and management style of a CEO. He (and only he) would make a decision and expect it to acted upon without further discussion and could see no need for compromise, that all important word which is the 'meat and three veg' of political life.
As such, for all their admirable intelligence and good traits, (and even after considering the faults of the duo who have replaced them), neither was - and is - suitable for the leadership position.
If the current political situation was a Greek tragedy, (which many would say it definitely is), Malcolm and Kevin would be two characters connected to the same puppeteer's one set of strings, each condenmed to do whatever the other does - and in this (hopefully final) Act, their joint task would seem to be to wilfully destroy their respective leader.
Along with many others, I have some misgivings about Tony Abbott, but I can't help but feel that Labor see him as a very effective and very dangerous Leader of the Opposition. If he was the disaster they and their compliant mainstream media continually keep reminding us he is, they wouldn't be saying a word of criticism about him, for they'd want him to remain in the leadership position. (And for those who might try to draw a parallel to the Libs' criticism of Juliar Gillard, it doesn't wash - Leaders of the Opposition can't enact terribly damaging and controversial policies, especially policies they promised immediately before the election that they would not enact; Prime Ministers can.)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turnbull is a merchant banker. (full stop)...
Merchant bankers will be in anything to make a quid. (full stop)....
Keating, I think, said, never get between Malcolm Turnbull and a bucket of money.....
Can you see where I'm going here?
Now as for the effectiveness of a carbon tax, a Labor identity said on ABC this morning, well,, it's a bit like a pool fence. It's impossible to say how many little kids have been saved over any period, only that it has prevented any. Based on this we will have to wait 100 years to find out if the tax worked or not.
Well, I'm not waiting around for that.
Merchant bankers will be in anything to make a quid. (full stop)....
Keating, I think, said, never get between Malcolm Turnbull and a bucket of money.....
Can you see where I'm going here?
Now as for the effectiveness of a carbon tax, a Labor identity said on ABC this morning, well,, it's a bit like a pool fence. It's impossible to say how many little kids have been saved over any period, only that it has prevented any. Based on this we will have to wait 100 years to find out if the tax worked or not.
Well, I'm not waiting around for that.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turnbull is also the local rep. for Goldman Sachs, the owners of the (currently near worthless) Carbon Bank, so of course he's going to support a carbon tax.
If it goes ahead, the merchant bankers are going to find themselves back in another 'glory days', a repeat of those heady pre-GFC days, where they'll all make a fortune trading in carbon credits, producing nothing - except paperwork and enormous profits for no one but themselves.
If it goes ahead, the merchant bankers are going to find themselves back in another 'glory days', a repeat of those heady pre-GFC days, where they'll all make a fortune trading in carbon credits, producing nothing - except paperwork and enormous profits for no one but themselves.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
funny that analogy about the pool fence, last year i read a report stating that since the introduction of mandatory pool fencing, there has been no change to the national average of drownings in domestic pools.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe so, Ultralights, but think of all those Council inspectors who had careers created 'out of the blue' (green?) checking all those back yards.
And the motor retailers who've profited from supplying all those Pool Inspectors' cars.
And the pool fence installers who had jobs created out of the blue by the legislation.
And the (gasp!) steel manufacturers who built the fences. (Oh my God!!! I hope they didn't add too much to this country's carbon footprint building all those steel fences.)
And the lawyers and all the court staff who wouldn't have had the income created by all those cases prosecuting homeowners who didn't have properly installed pool fences.
And the builders who profited as all those council offices had to be expanded to fit in the pool inspectors' offices.
I could continue...
And the motor retailers who've profited from supplying all those Pool Inspectors' cars.
And the pool fence installers who had jobs created out of the blue by the legislation.
And the (gasp!) steel manufacturers who built the fences. (Oh my God!!! I hope they didn't add too much to this country's carbon footprint building all those steel fences.)
And the lawyers and all the court staff who wouldn't have had the income created by all those cases prosecuting homeowners who didn't have properly installed pool fences.
And the builders who profited as all those council offices had to be expanded to fit in the pool inspectors' offices.
I could continue...
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think La Gillard might be about to suffer a major health crisis or some such? (Or some - any - face-saving excuse to allow her to retire 'gaaysfullie', as shy girls do.)
Former prime minister John Howard warns of lonely emissions trading path for Australia | Herald Sun
Apparently, the odds on Simon Crean have plummeted, so much so that some are asking if there isn't some 'insider information' (a la the recent AFL scandal) within the Labor Party that's caused the run on the betting shops. One of the major betting companies has stopped taking bets on Crean.
Former prime minister John Howard warns of lonely emissions trading path for Australia | Herald Sun
Gillard 'not worried about' leadership
Mr Howard's comments came as prime minister Gillard this morning denied sounding out Labor Party caucus members for their support for her leadership.
Mr Howard's comments came as prime minister Gillard this morning denied sounding out Labor Party caucus members for their support for her leadership.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think La Gillard might be about to suffer a major health crisis or some such?
[Julius Caesar to Marcus Antonius] Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yond' Cassius has a mean and hungy look, he thinks too much; such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar, Act 1 Scene 2
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Why oh why would I wanna be anywhere else?
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Apparently, the odds on Simon Crean have plummeted
The ALP and its apologists should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. This carbon tax was brought in purely to appease the Greens and to keep Labor in power. Presumably Juliar, having made the famous promise, thought that she had enough time and personality to sweet-talk Australia into accepting a policy that she had promised to take to the people for concensus prior to an election where she hoped that she would be swept to power again.
Probably it has now become apparent to the ALP hierarchy that they are doomed to electoral oblivion if they continue with Gillard and they might survive with enough credibility intact to rebuild after the next election with someone else. Crean is probably the safest pair of hands to manage the dissolution and election at this point. Hopefully he would call a double dissolution and give us the chance to also cast our opinion on feotid rat turds called the Greens.
If it happens I suspect that a lot of people on here will rush to be able to say 'told you so' to the "dear departed". Unfortunately it has taken the almost ruination of this country to get to this point and for that I feel profoundly saddened.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've just caught the end of a Gillard meeting with "business leaders" on Sky News where she fielded a series of what could only be called drooling, sycophantic "Dorothy Dix" questions from an adoring audience.
I could not help but think that the audience of so-called "business leaders" was as stacked with ALP and Greens cronies as the Galaxy seminars were.
Today's Neilson poll:
Primary vote:
61% Coalition under Abbott
26% Labor GOING UNDER under Gillard
I could not help but think that the audience of so-called "business leaders" was as stacked with ALP and Greens cronies as the Galaxy seminars were.
Today's Neilson poll:
Primary vote:
61% Coalition under Abbott
26% Labor GOING UNDER under Gillard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crean is probably the safest pair of hands
Although, if Shorten took the job, it would be grounds for a Royal intervention.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd be massively surprised if the current G-G did a Kerr unless she was really backed into a corner, it's well known in Qld that she's as Labor as they come and always has been.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Royal intervention? I don't think you'd have any trouble getting a bookie to take your money at any odds you'd like to name for that bet, Frank. Even I would demonstrate in the streets against that.
In the highly unlikely event that it was to happen, I think even Tony Abbott would ignore it, because I don't think there's an Australian politician drawing breath today who wouldn't recognise backing a royal intervention as long term (if not short term) political suicide.
What is really scaring me is the message that's coming repeatedly from Gillard and Brown - that the ''factually incorrect" line being touted by elements within the media (read: the Murdoch Press and Andrew Bolt) needs to be countered.
It's a very short step from that line of argument to imposing censorship "for the good of the nation". They're already saying (see Gillard's 'don't print crap' speech to an adoring Press Club last week) that counter arguments should be muzzled "so that the true message can be given to the people". (Starting last night, see the $23 million of taxpayers' money they're spending on what can only be called a propaganda campaign.)
I'm sure there were some in Germany who were poo-hooed and derided when they expressed such reservations about Hitler's growing power.
I think that old Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" might apply to Australia in the coming years.
In the highly unlikely event that it was to happen, I think even Tony Abbott would ignore it, because I don't think there's an Australian politician drawing breath today who wouldn't recognise backing a royal intervention as long term (if not short term) political suicide.
What is really scaring me is the message that's coming repeatedly from Gillard and Brown - that the ''factually incorrect" line being touted by elements within the media (read: the Murdoch Press and Andrew Bolt) needs to be countered.
It's a very short step from that line of argument to imposing censorship "for the good of the nation". They're already saying (see Gillard's 'don't print crap' speech to an adoring Press Club last week) that counter arguments should be muzzled "so that the true message can be given to the people". (Starting last night, see the $23 million of taxpayers' money they're spending on what can only be called a propaganda campaign.)
I'm sure there were some in Germany who were poo-hooed and derided when they expressed such reservations about Hitler's growing power.
I think that old Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" might apply to Australia in the coming years.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I would also oppose any Royal intervention, however if Shorten were to become PM with his mother in law as GG, (the Queen's representative), there would be a massive conflict of interests. That would concern me more.
Actually it concerns me, but is not surprising with this mob, that a Republican would give another Republican a Royal representative role.
Gillard is the face to hate, but the real problem is the Greens who she needs to massage to maintain power. And that's what it's all about. Power which is already corrupted and can soon be absolutely corrupted.
I wouldn't put it past the scheming shrew to dump the Greens prior to the next election, but well after she has got her agenda items through the Senate.
Actually it concerns me, but is not surprising with this mob, that a Republican would give another Republican a Royal representative role.
Gillard is the face to hate, but the real problem is the Greens who she needs to massage to maintain power. And that's what it's all about. Power which is already corrupted and can soon be absolutely corrupted.
I wouldn't put it past the scheming shrew to dump the Greens prior to the next election, but well after she has got her agenda items through the Senate.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure, that would be a massive COI, I would have thought Quentin would stand down if Shorten became The Man, but anything's possible...
Re the press, I'd be interested to know how much influence they have on public political opinion these days. Personally I think that even if the government took over every media source in the country and filled them with glowing propaganda, people would still be dirty about them. So much political advertising is hammy, over the top and badly done (and that's from both sides) that I think it often has the opposite effect to what was intended.
A lot of people I deal with don't read or listen to any news coverage except for the gruesome crime stories, sport and weather. They either think the political coverage is boring or don't believe a word of it. Either way, three cheers for the Internet! That was one thing they didn't have in 1930s Germany. Even the once invincible Syrian and Iranian propaganda machines have been left floundering against the onslaught of camera phones and FB.
Re the press, I'd be interested to know how much influence they have on public political opinion these days. Personally I think that even if the government took over every media source in the country and filled them with glowing propaganda, people would still be dirty about them. So much political advertising is hammy, over the top and badly done (and that's from both sides) that I think it often has the opposite effect to what was intended.
A lot of people I deal with don't read or listen to any news coverage except for the gruesome crime stories, sport and weather. They either think the political coverage is boring or don't believe a word of it. Either way, three cheers for the Internet! That was one thing they didn't have in 1930s Germany. Even the once invincible Syrian and Iranian propaganda machines have been left floundering against the onslaught of camera phones and FB.
Either way, three cheers for the Internet!
I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory here to be had.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You beat me to it, Cooda.
Did anyone hear Gillard's interview on the ABC breakfast programme on Adelaide this morning? (If anyone knows how to post a sound file of it, it would be priceless). One of the two interviewers asked Gillard if she hadn't considered that the problem causing the government's appallingly bad polls might not be the Party's policies, but her, and if she recognised this, whether she should stand down?
That lad will be drummed out of the ABC Joolaya glee club.
Did anyone hear Gillard's interview on the ABC breakfast programme on Adelaide this morning? (If anyone knows how to post a sound file of it, it would be priceless). One of the two interviewers asked Gillard if she hadn't considered that the problem causing the government's appallingly bad polls might not be the Party's policies, but her, and if she recognised this, whether she should stand down?
That lad will be drummed out of the ABC Joolaya glee club.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Conroy has been bleeting on about the Daily Telegraph bias that he sees as undermining Labor's policies. Someone should tell him to check the ABC for bias before attacking others.
"Your ABC" has become "their ABC".
"Your ABC" has become "their ABC".
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, it makes a change from makita wielding bikini babes...
They're a business that knows how to appeal to their target customers (copious photos of bikini babes, usually) so I'd say they've figured out there's mass appeal to tradies and DIYers with a Julia Sucks article.
Brisbane's traditionally fairly ALP but the right-wing, union head kicker variety. Even the inner city trendies are much less leftie/ tree hugging than the southern species. The student union brigade calling the shots in Canberra are really failing to appeal to the average Brisbane worker and that article is miles politer than some of the stuff that's being said around town by former diehard Labor types.
They're a business that knows how to appeal to their target customers (copious photos of bikini babes, usually) so I'd say they've figured out there's mass appeal to tradies and DIYers with a Julia Sucks article.
Brisbane's traditionally fairly ALP but the right-wing, union head kicker variety. Even the inner city trendies are much less leftie/ tree hugging than the southern species. The student union brigade calling the shots in Canberra are really failing to appeal to the average Brisbane worker and that article is miles politer than some of the stuff that's being said around town by former diehard Labor types.