Where are the AME apprentices?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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humph
I have been trying for the past year to start my AME apprenticeship in Queensland. I was advised by many people in the industry to not bother with courses and just jump straight in to learning on the job. Which suits me much better anyway. I have since been knocked back by four joints for one reason only...I'm female. I have applied all through Queensland and have had no luck, while I appreciate the honesty, I still can't understand how my sex can be a problem 
. I have been fortunate enough to have some fantastic engineers wanting to help out with Scheduled experience hours and this has helped me greatly. But all those hours (total of 3 months full time) was done out of my own time and still the company pen pushers wont give me a go. I won't be giving up, I do my own study and am trying to get through my exams. But in reality I need to be working in the industry with a mentor who wants me to suceed.
. I have been fortunate enough to have some fantastic engineers wanting to help out with Scheduled experience hours and this has helped me greatly. But all those hours (total of 3 months full time) was done out of my own time and still the company pen pushers wont give me a go. I won't be giving up, I do my own study and am trying to get through my exams. But in reality I need to be working in the industry with a mentor who wants me to suceed.
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Don't give up Ellyot .Over the last week I had a chance to be working with a 3rd year female apprentice. Gotta say that she was on top of her game . Sex has nothing to do with it , its about personal drive and ambition.
Thread Starter
Sorry, been a bit busy........
Interesting comments in this thread, some correct, some the results of misunderstandings. An apprentice needs to have "the passion" and an employer must have understanding and a genuine desire to impart training and knowledge.
Yes, that is true, but I can't compress a decade of mentoring, supporting and training Australian apprentices into one short PPRuNe post...... We all have sad failures, but completing and graduating around a hundred apprentices and trainees each year makes it all worth while! 
Well, not quite. The cancellation/failure rate of apprentices in the mining industry is no better than in other industries, despite the additional mentoring and support they often receive. Not all apprentices can hack the cyclic roster, living on site, generally ten hour days, seven days per week of two week on, two week off rosters.
I think you were very fortunate they knocked you back. If that is their attitude, they don't deserve you.
I have female apprentices in many trades including building and mechanical. Most show great dedication, excellent progress and complete early to become excellent trades people.
Interesting comments in this thread, some correct, some the results of misunderstandings. An apprentice needs to have "the passion" and an employer must have understanding and a genuine desire to impart training and knowledge.
"....what Torres said is only part of the story..."
"If I was a mining recruiter I would be down at my local airport poaching guys. Saying to them here is a job with more pay, better roster, better conditions, we feed you on site, we house you on site, little stress and no threat of litigation hanging over you."
"I have since been knocked back by four joints for one reason only...I'm female."
I have female apprentices in many trades including building and mechanical. Most show great dedication, excellent progress and complete early to become excellent trades people.
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Ellyot, in another life I worked in and around the hangars of a fairly sizable operation where dozens were employed maintaining various g.a. and s.a.l. a/c. It was rural oz not capital city and it was many years ago. On occasions I worked beside one young female apprentice AME. She was a pleasure to work with and very thorough and didn't mind getting her hands dirty.
...I have written but then deleted some lengthy text on her treatment within her workplace; I had begun to rant. Long story short this poor young woman was leaned on, harrassed, abused, the subject of all possible verbal assaults until she could tolerate it no more...
Torres has good advice, it's a numbers game unless you have strong recommendations. Those who turned you away are no place for you; the very last thing you want is to be accepted by these people and then later resented. If they knock you back, turn and walk away.
Your time will come but you'll have to persist.
...I have written but then deleted some lengthy text on her treatment within her workplace; I had begun to rant. Long story short this poor young woman was leaned on, harrassed, abused, the subject of all possible verbal assaults until she could tolerate it no more...
Torres has good advice, it's a numbers game unless you have strong recommendations. Those who turned you away are no place for you; the very last thing you want is to be accepted by these people and then later resented. If they knock you back, turn and walk away.
Your time will come but you'll have to persist.
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ellyot
Hang in there..!! Get your Basics (while you have time)and Don't rely on the B1/B2 stuff provided by Tafe's etc etc..Most employers prefer to see some-one who steps forward and uses their own inititive to get the ball rolling..
Rant over
Hang in there..!! Get your Basics (while you have time)and Don't rely on the B1/B2 stuff provided by Tafe's etc etc..Most employers prefer to see some-one who steps forward and uses their own inititive to get the ball rolling..
Rant over
Thread Starter
Long story short this poor young woman was leaned on, harrassed, abused, the subject of all possible verbal assaults until she could tolerate it no more...
I do not tollerate harrassment, bullying, abuse or gender inequality in respect to the apprentices I employ. Equally, I expect apprentices to be committed to training, their trade and harmony and prosperity in the workplace.
".... s.a.l. a/c ...."
"SAL" - Supplementary Airline License or Reg 203 Services - were scheduled air services, generally operated by aircraft less than 12,500 pounds MTOW, under an Exemption to ANR203. They operated prior to September 1988, the last time Australia had a complete working set of sane civil aviation regulations.
Why 12,500 pounds limit? Because it was half the max TO weight of a Douglas DC3, the "standard" airline aircraft in 1948.
Last edited by Torres; 21st Jun 2011 at 01:22.
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Time to accept the present!
Get your Basics (while you have time)and Don't rely on the B1/B2 stuff provided by Tafe's etc etc..Most employers prefer to see some-one who steps forward and uses their own inititive to get the ball rolling..
As for the lady getting an apprenticeship, what better initiative can she show than to get all her apprenticeship theory out of the way first so that when you do get the apprenticeship, you dont lose any work time by going away to school.
I have heard so much S#!+ about how terrible the new system is from so many LAMEs and employers (GA mostly). If they would spend all that energy on learning how it works, what advantages it has and learn to make it work for them instead of whinging ceaselesly about it, they might find that it's not so bad.
Nobody likes change, but that's life, get on with it.
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As a student
As a student who is currently studying at Aviation Australia, just so that I can get the theory out of the way, to make myself look like a better investment. However being entirely new in this profession and noone in my family or friends, know much about how to get into this field. I have tried career search engines and the like, but we never seem to find many GA companies, if any at all. Is there a way that I do not know about, to find these openings?
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Sidesaddle
i agree, adapt or move on the b1/b2 system is the way of the future, like it or not, - remember the rest of the western world has been using it for around 20 years - time for Australia to come into the light - and speaking from experience the part 66/145/147 etc system as a whole works well
and Lichtenstein
to be completely honest, almost all of my jobs in this business i have gotten by walking into a hangar and saying ' hi my name is bill, and i am looking for work, have you got any????' and then get a number and check back once a month or so (not every day that annoys the crap outa people)
in fact most ppl i talk to have gotten jobs this way
but, back to my previous post
RUN AWAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY, RUN AWAAAAAAAAAYYYYY , don't make eye contact, avert your eyes....... quickly step back from the aviation business
i agree, adapt or move on the b1/b2 system is the way of the future, like it or not, - remember the rest of the western world has been using it for around 20 years - time for Australia to come into the light - and speaking from experience the part 66/145/147 etc system as a whole works well
and Lichtenstein
to be completely honest, almost all of my jobs in this business i have gotten by walking into a hangar and saying ' hi my name is bill, and i am looking for work, have you got any????' and then get a number and check back once a month or so (not every day that annoys the crap outa people)
in fact most ppl i talk to have gotten jobs this way
but, back to my previous post
RUN AWAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY, RUN AWAAAAAAAAAYYYYY , don't make eye contact, avert your eyes....... quickly step back from the aviation business
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Nice to hear. I am currently qualified in another trade area (Refrigeration, AC, building management) and am looking into an AME career. I did complete my original apprenticeship in 2.5 years, with credits etc.
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Ozadski,
There are actually a number of trades listed as having "Skills Shortages"
If listed, there are a number of government incentives offered, depending on state.
E.g I had a mature age apprentice on for some time, I got (fed) money for employing him, a fortnightly subsidy for his wage (fed... 150pw for first year, 100 for second) , he got 800 tool (fed) at the end of his first 3 months, an extra 800 at the start of his final year), then he got 6 monthly wage top ups of about 500 (state...vic), and 100% reimbursement for school fees (state) (If I paid it, i got a tax break that was worth less than the fee's). Workcover (vic) is also paid by the Gov.
So its not all bad for an employer/MA Apprentice.
------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the high drop out rate of 1st year apprentices, I blame our Education system. Sure there are some crud employers out there, and the money isn't great, but it is a lot better than the dole now (well for a 16-18 yo with no kids). The problem I have found with 1st years, is that they have zero to little practical hands on skills. The abolition of Tech Schools here in Vic saw to it that the kids that were never going to make it in Uni received no experience in trade orientated subjects. This situation looks to change soon, but not soon enough. I've had 4 out of 5 first years leave to pursue other trades, and the only reason I have the one I do now, is that he grew up playing with cars alongside his dad mechanic, and he decided he hated oil.
I had the oppurtunity to take up a cabinet making app when I left school, but without the tech school experience I wouldn't have known that my timber skills were limited to making firewood.
When tech schools return, we'll see the retention rates on apprentices improve.
Cheers
Jas
edit...Ozadski, you might like to research something here, if you can find/print/comprehend the info, then you will have something to aid a prospective employer in your favour
linky... Skill Shortage Lists
There are actually a number of trades listed as having "Skills Shortages"
If listed, there are a number of government incentives offered, depending on state.
E.g I had a mature age apprentice on for some time, I got (fed) money for employing him, a fortnightly subsidy for his wage (fed... 150pw for first year, 100 for second) , he got 800 tool (fed) at the end of his first 3 months, an extra 800 at the start of his final year), then he got 6 monthly wage top ups of about 500 (state...vic), and 100% reimbursement for school fees (state) (If I paid it, i got a tax break that was worth less than the fee's). Workcover (vic) is also paid by the Gov.
So its not all bad for an employer/MA Apprentice.
------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the high drop out rate of 1st year apprentices, I blame our Education system. Sure there are some crud employers out there, and the money isn't great, but it is a lot better than the dole now (well for a 16-18 yo with no kids). The problem I have found with 1st years, is that they have zero to little practical hands on skills. The abolition of Tech Schools here in Vic saw to it that the kids that were never going to make it in Uni received no experience in trade orientated subjects. This situation looks to change soon, but not soon enough. I've had 4 out of 5 first years leave to pursue other trades, and the only reason I have the one I do now, is that he grew up playing with cars alongside his dad mechanic, and he decided he hated oil.
I had the oppurtunity to take up a cabinet making app when I left school, but without the tech school experience I wouldn't have known that my timber skills were limited to making firewood.
When tech schools return, we'll see the retention rates on apprentices improve.
Cheers
Jas
edit...Ozadski, you might like to research something here, if you can find/print/comprehend the info, then you will have something to aid a prospective employer in your favour
linky... Skill Shortage Lists
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Jas,
Thanks for the info. I know of that list you referred to. My current position is also on it!
As for the money, I anticipated it to be a lot less then what I am currently remunerated, and less perks, but I expect that. This change is more about lifestyle. I currently find what I am doing not as challenging as it once was. I'm not implying that I am not capable, just a little sick of it.
I also grew up around fixing mechanical things (dad was a hands on Mech eng, and an ex RAF pilot), from cars, boats, electronics etc. I went into my current trade, as I originally found it challenging, and it pays well.
There are a few reasons for wanting a career change, which I won't bore you with now. Well ok one.... I hate being a part changer. I have to know why something has failed, and rectify it. Cause and effect.
I digress. Thanks for the info, I'll have a snoop around here.
Regards
Adski
Thanks for the info. I know of that list you referred to. My current position is also on it!
As for the money, I anticipated it to be a lot less then what I am currently remunerated, and less perks, but I expect that. This change is more about lifestyle. I currently find what I am doing not as challenging as it once was. I'm not implying that I am not capable, just a little sick of it.
I also grew up around fixing mechanical things (dad was a hands on Mech eng, and an ex RAF pilot), from cars, boats, electronics etc. I went into my current trade, as I originally found it challenging, and it pays well.
There are a few reasons for wanting a career change, which I won't bore you with now. Well ok one.... I hate being a part changer. I have to know why something has failed, and rectify it. Cause and effect.
I digress. Thanks for the info, I'll have a snoop around here.
Regards
Adski
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As for the high drop out rate of 1st year apprentices, I blame our Education system.
, but modern teaching standards are another rant for another time
). Her theory is that a lot of kids shouldn't be doing Senior as they have no interest in and no aptitude for that level of book learning, but should be out learning how to do the practical things they enjoy and are good at, rather than wasting her time and their own. Your theory sheds a different light on the same problem, because it appears that many students are wasting valuable time struggling through B-grade literary criticism when they could be learning how to fix stuff and then become more useful apprentices. Basically nobody wins, least of all the kids. Of course the education system isn't producing kids fit for tertiary study either and the unis are having to pick up the slack in first year courses, but that's yet another rant.
As for the wannabe AMEs, maybe they're reading the stuff in DG Reporting Points and thinking twice.
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I think the next generation will come from India. That's my prediction.
The government has signed an agreement to allow 40000+ workers to come to Australia to fill the skills shortage in Australia left by the mining boom.
Expect to see lots of chaps in GA as AMEs wanting to turn a spanner if it means the opportunity to earn more than home,and the possibility of a residency visa in the future.
This is quickly becoming a profession for people from 3rd world countries with only a smattering of locals taking up an apprenticeship in Australia.
The government has signed an agreement to allow 40000+ workers to come to Australia to fill the skills shortage in Australia left by the mining boom.
Expect to see lots of chaps in GA as AMEs wanting to turn a spanner if it means the opportunity to earn more than home,and the possibility of a residency visa in the future.
This is quickly becoming a profession for people from 3rd world countries with only a smattering of locals taking up an apprenticeship in Australia.
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Bug a Lugs..
that is a crock!
I actually work in an industry outside of aviation. My outside looking in view of the aviation trades sector, is that it is one of the healthiest in the country. My industry is automotive body.
At current the auto body industry employs .0003 of an apprentice per workshop. How does that compare to the aviation industry? It is probably very close to 1 per workshop.
Barring a few operators, the aviation industry has a better mindset for training new people than the auto industry does.
I personally would employ at least 2 more apprentices, but i don't have the tradesmen to cover them.
As i stated earlier, it is a 2 fold problem..............begining with the education system and ending with prospective employers
Cheers
Jas
that is a crock!
I actually work in an industry outside of aviation. My outside looking in view of the aviation trades sector, is that it is one of the healthiest in the country. My industry is automotive body.
At current the auto body industry employs .0003 of an apprentice per workshop. How does that compare to the aviation industry? It is probably very close to 1 per workshop.
Barring a few operators, the aviation industry has a better mindset for training new people than the auto industry does.
I personally would employ at least 2 more apprentices, but i don't have the tradesmen to cover them.
As i stated earlier, it is a 2 fold problem..............begining with the education system and ending with prospective employers
Cheers
Jas
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Well Jas,where do you think the future is coming from,because there doesn't seem to be too many wanting to take up an apprenticeship?
Its understandable as many young locally based people who would normally be interested in a mechanical/electrical based trade, can earn more in their first few years out of school working for Telstra or Dick Smith,and you don't get dirty,work reasonable hours. Or they head to Uni.
Jet Airways and other Indian operators are training young guys, who after a few years are upping sticks and heading overseas for better wages & conditions than they will enjoy in India.
Its understandable as many young locally based people who would normally be interested in a mechanical/electrical based trade, can earn more in their first few years out of school working for Telstra or Dick Smith,and you don't get dirty,work reasonable hours. Or they head to Uni.
Jet Airways and other Indian operators are training young guys, who after a few years are upping sticks and heading overseas for better wages & conditions than they will enjoy in India.