Day in the life of an Instructor v Day in the life of a charter pilot
CPs out in the charter world are generally much more street wise and are happy to pass on what they know. They invest in their troops and gain pleasure from watching them progress. CFIs seem to delight in holding people back. "You need 3000 hours to fly the partenavia", "You need to be a Grade 1 before you can teach stalling".
What experience does this come from?
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story 
Unfortunately flying schools tend to harbour these types. I've met some great CFIs, in fact I still keep in touch with two that I met along the way.
But I've met some arrogant wankers too. Not mentioning any names of course
Unfortunately flying schools tend to harbour these types. I've met some great CFIs, in fact I still keep in touch with two that I met along the way.
But I've met some arrogant wankers too. Not mentioning any names of course
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I think the truth of the matter is that if your smart and some on here are not, you will find more experienced and useful CFIs than you will chief pilots. Why?
CPs for the type of organization you are considering starting with are usually guys who have been around a few years and either haven't had the ability to move on to bigger and better things or are just medium term seat warmers.
Very few (although there are exceptions) GA single engine charter organizations have "experienced" CPs.
The same is similar at flying schools, however there re plenty of high time CFIs who have returned to instructing after very interesting careers in all types of aviation. The CFI at every school I worked at and trained at were very experienced. One had a DFC from Vietnam, the other well into the 10,000 hrs, the likes on Ken Andrews, Trevor Howie the lsit goes on.
I don't recall any CP of start out organizations that has done more thatn a few scenics and indigenous charters out of some **** hole like Kunuurra. No comparison really.
There are exceptions to both these scenarios of course. If you intend making. A career out of either chose your employer carefully, you don't have o work for the first company that offers a job.
CPs for the type of organization you are considering starting with are usually guys who have been around a few years and either haven't had the ability to move on to bigger and better things or are just medium term seat warmers.
Very few (although there are exceptions) GA single engine charter organizations have "experienced" CPs.
The same is similar at flying schools, however there re plenty of high time CFIs who have returned to instructing after very interesting careers in all types of aviation. The CFI at every school I worked at and trained at were very experienced. One had a DFC from Vietnam, the other well into the 10,000 hrs, the likes on Ken Andrews, Trevor Howie the lsit goes on.
I don't recall any CP of start out organizations that has done more thatn a few scenics and indigenous charters out of some **** hole like Kunuurra. No comparison really.
There are exceptions to both these scenarios of course. If you intend making. A career out of either chose your employer carefully, you don't have o work for the first company that offers a job.
Skynews how would you like it if people refered to where you chose to call home as a "****hole"?
Kununurra is an extremely beautiful part of the world and like anywhere, is what YOU make of it.
The people are friendly and the flying is interesting. Bungle scenics are only a small percantage of the work that goes on around the region.
Roxy, for what it's worth, go and explore the country for a year or so, see where that leads and then do your instructor rating if you wish.
Kununurra is an extremely beautiful part of the world and like anywhere, is what YOU make of it.
The people are friendly and the flying is interesting. Bungle scenics are only a small percantage of the work that goes on around the region.
Roxy, for what it's worth, go and explore the country for a year or so, see where that leads and then do your instructor rating if you wish.
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What to do?
It really depends on what you want to do. What lights the fire in your belly?
If doing an instructor rating and staying home is it then that is fantastic, do it.
However if you want an adventure then pack the car, go and have the time of your life on your way to starting a fantastic career. Where to go? Wherever you feel is right.
Now if you are even more adventurous there is South Africa, South America, Indonesia... the world is your oyster.
What ever you decide, have fun, most importantly enjoy, be disciplined in your flying and as I said have fun. A great time to be starting. You have the opportunity to get some great experience and accelerate through to wherever you wish to end up.
If doing an instructor rating and staying home is it then that is fantastic, do it.
However if you want an adventure then pack the car, go and have the time of your life on your way to starting a fantastic career. Where to go? Wherever you feel is right.
Now if you are even more adventurous there is South Africa, South America, Indonesia... the world is your oyster.
What ever you decide, have fun, most importantly enjoy, be disciplined in your flying and as I said have fun. A great time to be starting. You have the opportunity to get some great experience and accelerate through to wherever you wish to end up.
Since when did instructing mean or require staying at home?
I suspect from some of the responses here, some of these charter pilots have seen none of the real world.
The majority of pilots go the charter way as it is easier.
These same pilots' knowledge of instructing and where that takes you and what it allows you to do, were to work, appears to be almost zero.
Flying in circle around Kakadu, Bunlge Bungle or any other scenic operator is NOT seeing the world. Neither is flying indigenous people around Arnhem Land.
The fact is most GA charter pilots only venture within a few hundred miles from their base. Big deal guys!
AS I said earlier I have tried them both. Started RPT RHS, then instructing 6 6 years (combined with some charter, then charter for 7 years (combined with instructing) and then flying jets for 16. The instructing lead to more opportunities, it was by far the most rewarding, and it lead to the most travel were I could actually stop and see places.
Charter was OK, but mostly sitting around waiting. Not as rewarding.
I understand that instructing is not for everyone, but don't try and sell Roxy based on your biased opinion, if you haven't tried it, then you are not really equipped to criticise are you?
Instructing gets a bad rap from people who were not suited to it and also those who want to sell their own choice. In reality if you get a job at a good school it can be much more enjoyable than scenics, freight and passengers.
The argument will go on well after this thread is lost, so make your own mind up. You will know inside what you really want. If instructing isn't it, the best thing you can do for future potential students and CPL's is join the masses and fly 210's and 206's around for a while and leave it to people who want to be there.
I suspect from some of the responses here, some of these charter pilots have seen none of the real world.
The majority of pilots go the charter way as it is easier.
These same pilots' knowledge of instructing and where that takes you and what it allows you to do, were to work, appears to be almost zero.
Flying in circle around Kakadu, Bunlge Bungle or any other scenic operator is NOT seeing the world. Neither is flying indigenous people around Arnhem Land.
The fact is most GA charter pilots only venture within a few hundred miles from their base. Big deal guys!
AS I said earlier I have tried them both. Started RPT RHS, then instructing 6 6 years (combined with some charter, then charter for 7 years (combined with instructing) and then flying jets for 16. The instructing lead to more opportunities, it was by far the most rewarding, and it lead to the most travel were I could actually stop and see places.
Charter was OK, but mostly sitting around waiting. Not as rewarding.
I understand that instructing is not for everyone, but don't try and sell Roxy based on your biased opinion, if you haven't tried it, then you are not really equipped to criticise are you?
Instructing gets a bad rap from people who were not suited to it and also those who want to sell their own choice. In reality if you get a job at a good school it can be much more enjoyable than scenics, freight and passengers.
The argument will go on well after this thread is lost, so make your own mind up. You will know inside what you really want. If instructing isn't it, the best thing you can do for future potential students and CPL's is join the masses and fly 210's and 206's around for a while and leave it to people who want to be there.
I guess I will play the devils advocate to RENURPP, my experience of Instructing was completely different from RENURPP as was my experience in GA and charter.
I found a charter gig that had me fly a grand total of 10 scenic flights, the rest being charters. And not just the into the local community and then to Darwin charters, but the one side of the NT and back again type. It included low level Dingo baiting (not for the squeamish) fruit bat tracking and landing on some of the most interesting strips in the NT (well in my opinion, I haven't been to them all so am not an expert). I was able to transport a wide range of items from the mail to groceries all the way to medivacs just because I was the only one within 400K with an aeroplane.
Yup I sat in some very isolated places waiting in the 40c heat for a Doc to finish his clinic, however I also had the opportunity to sit on the bank of a billabong having been flown in by helicopter just to have a go at catching a Barra (fishing fail, but at least the chopper pilot managed to find us lunch).
All this before 500hrs
My instructing experience however was not as favourable, I did not work in a sausage factory however still found myself going around and around in the circuit (it takes a student on average 10-20hrs to go solo, 5hrs of ops eff/SL/turns/ Stalls etc, followed by 5-15 hrs of circuits. On average you can do 6 or so circuits in an hr, so 30-90 circuits per student, this is where circuit bashing comes into play).
While instructing I was also flying twin charter, however as I had an instructor rating and the other casual did not I was often bumped from the charter to instruct and sent to do circuits, having an instructor rating actually reduced my income as S/E work pays less than twin work.
I do agree on one point with RENURPP, if you don't really want to instruct then don't do it.
I found a charter gig that had me fly a grand total of 10 scenic flights, the rest being charters. And not just the into the local community and then to Darwin charters, but the one side of the NT and back again type. It included low level Dingo baiting (not for the squeamish) fruit bat tracking and landing on some of the most interesting strips in the NT (well in my opinion, I haven't been to them all so am not an expert). I was able to transport a wide range of items from the mail to groceries all the way to medivacs just because I was the only one within 400K with an aeroplane.
Yup I sat in some very isolated places waiting in the 40c heat for a Doc to finish his clinic, however I also had the opportunity to sit on the bank of a billabong having been flown in by helicopter just to have a go at catching a Barra (fishing fail, but at least the chopper pilot managed to find us lunch).
All this before 500hrs
My instructing experience however was not as favourable, I did not work in a sausage factory however still found myself going around and around in the circuit (it takes a student on average 10-20hrs to go solo, 5hrs of ops eff/SL/turns/ Stalls etc, followed by 5-15 hrs of circuits. On average you can do 6 or so circuits in an hr, so 30-90 circuits per student, this is where circuit bashing comes into play).
While instructing I was also flying twin charter, however as I had an instructor rating and the other casual did not I was often bumped from the charter to instruct and sent to do circuits, having an instructor rating actually reduced my income as S/E work pays less than twin work.
I do agree on one point with RENURPP, if you don't really want to instruct then don't do it.
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Rmcdonal - good old vrd hey... You almost had us convinced it was good!!
Seriously all going to be what you make it!
rmcdonal - I had one bloke last a whole beer at vrd before demanding we take him back to "civilisation"... This was the 2nd time as the first trip he didn't even make it to have a beer.
Done instructing in 2 countries - charter in 3 and rpt in 2 and would say all have ups and downs... Both will be rewarding if you let them!!
Seriously all going to be what you make it!
rmcdonal - I had one bloke last a whole beer at vrd before demanding we take him back to "civilisation"... This was the 2nd time as the first trip he didn't even make it to have a beer.
Done instructing in 2 countries - charter in 3 and rpt in 2 and would say all have ups and downs... Both will be rewarding if you let them!!
Im enjoying this thread..Thank you all..
Im not really qualified to talk about anything other than the instructing side of things, but what I can tell you is that Ive enjoyed the teaching, and more importantly the learning.
I think it helped me being a bit older when I started, but I really enjoy seeing people get the most out of themselves..I dont think I could have said that at the age of 20 (Im now in my 30s) as I was far too much up my own ar$e.
Saying that,I do have plans to get out and charter in the next few years, as I would like to have more freedoms, or should i say different freedoms. I see my friends hooning around the outback, and do have a certain amount of envy
it was always my plan to instruct first, because I wanted to be around a lot of different pilots of different experience levels and just pick the hell out of their brains.
I have no interest in the airlines, but do have a lot of interest in flying seaplanes, something as yet i have not done..Possibly choppers as well.
Do whatever feels right, then be prepared to work hard and you'll get a lot out of it.
Im not really qualified to talk about anything other than the instructing side of things, but what I can tell you is that Ive enjoyed the teaching, and more importantly the learning.
I think it helped me being a bit older when I started, but I really enjoy seeing people get the most out of themselves..I dont think I could have said that at the age of 20 (Im now in my 30s) as I was far too much up my own ar$e.
Saying that,I do have plans to get out and charter in the next few years, as I would like to have more freedoms, or should i say different freedoms. I see my friends hooning around the outback, and do have a certain amount of envy
it was always my plan to instruct first, because I wanted to be around a lot of different pilots of different experience levels and just pick the hell out of their brains.
I have no interest in the airlines, but do have a lot of interest in flying seaplanes, something as yet i have not done..Possibly choppers as well.
Do whatever feels right, then be prepared to work hard and you'll get a lot out of it.
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I went to Africa flew bush for a couple of years then got into floats on the mighty beaver and now the van on amphibious floats. My mates who went the instructing route still are at the same field most of them learnt at flying very average machines. Or according to them not flying just sitting there.
One or two of them get to fly the very odd scenic or charter in a crappy Seneca or something like that.
They all know loads more facts and figures than me but none of them know how to deal with anything real world, loads, weather, tight time frames etc etc.
IMHO You can be a pilot or an instructor, if you could do both then that would be good I guess. But where I used to work in Africa instructors were not liked by the companies as they generally I say again generally were slow on turnarounds, flew huge circuits and just took ages to get into a commercial frame of mind and wasted allot of time.
I'm not saying this to upset anyone just telling you the truth as I have seen it.
So for me hands down charter/bush etc over instructing for the experience and great places you will go and people you will meet.
One or two of them get to fly the very odd scenic or charter in a crappy Seneca or something like that.
They all know loads more facts and figures than me but none of them know how to deal with anything real world, loads, weather, tight time frames etc etc.
IMHO You can be a pilot or an instructor, if you could do both then that would be good I guess. But where I used to work in Africa instructors were not liked by the companies as they generally I say again generally were slow on turnarounds, flew huge circuits and just took ages to get into a commercial frame of mind and wasted allot of time.
I'm not saying this to upset anyone just telling you the truth as I have seen it.
So for me hands down charter/bush etc over instructing for the experience and great places you will go and people you will meet.
