Ansett and the Fokker Friendship
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Why didn't the Armed forces of OZ operate the F27?
For the complementary reason the airlines did -
Considerations -
(a) cruise speed -
Draggie 200-210 against
Mouse 230-240
or thereabouts
(b) field performance -
Draggie good
Mouse not so good
The airlines were near to signing up for the Draggie instead of the Mouse because of field limitations ... UNTIL DCA's Donald George made the call to upgrade all airline country strips to 5000ft min runways - instantly the Mouse was able to operate without too much in the way of restriction and the sector time savings won the day.
Hence the airlines operated the Mouse (for the sector savings) and the RAAF/RAN the Draggie (for getting in and out of paddocks).
This story was told to me via George Claude D a senior DCA engineer for whom I worked in the early 70s (which is where my path first crossed that of Centaurus). George Claude, of similar age to Donald George, had worked with the top man in previous appointments and knew him quite well.
Somewhere in my files I have a HS/BAe report on the 748's soft field (for want of a better term) capabilities ... not too much in the way of payload .. but the ruts were deep enough to hide a chap of considerable girth ... the pix are quite impressive.
For the complementary reason the airlines did -
Considerations -
(a) cruise speed -
Draggie 200-210 against
Mouse 230-240
or thereabouts
(b) field performance -
Draggie good
Mouse not so good
The airlines were near to signing up for the Draggie instead of the Mouse because of field limitations ... UNTIL DCA's Donald George made the call to upgrade all airline country strips to 5000ft min runways - instantly the Mouse was able to operate without too much in the way of restriction and the sector time savings won the day.
Hence the airlines operated the Mouse (for the sector savings) and the RAAF/RAN the Draggie (for getting in and out of paddocks).
This story was told to me via George Claude D a senior DCA engineer for whom I worked in the early 70s (which is where my path first crossed that of Centaurus). George Claude, of similar age to Donald George, had worked with the top man in previous appointments and knew him quite well.
Somewhere in my files I have a HS/BAe report on the 748's soft field (for want of a better term) capabilities ... not too much in the way of payload .. but the ruts were deep enough to hide a chap of considerable girth ... the pix are quite impressive.
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F27 mishap.
Happened in SY,one night back in the late 60s or early 70s,a flight attendant (hostess in them days),inadvertantly walked through a spinning propeller as it was winding down after a flight. She was missed by the blades but got such a shock,she collapsed to the ground. On lookers raced to her,fearing what they would find,but she was OK. Now did this occur? has anyone anyone heard this occurrence or is it just 'urban myth' (Please note: just because YOU haven't heard of it,doesn't mean it IS an urban myth)
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Hadn't heard that tale .. and couldn't see it being real.
... but, apparently, there was a ground staffer who, on a dirty night, put his head down at SYD and ran part way through the prop disc .. the tale was that one half of him ended up on the other side of the aircraft.
... but, apparently, there was a ground staffer who, on a dirty night, put his head down at SYD and ran part way through the prop disc .. the tale was that one half of him ended up on the other side of the aircraft.
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The F27 operated where no other could.
This ridiculous weather and flooding in Brisbane at present reminded me of the terrible floods back in 1974, and how the Fokker Friendship operated where NO other aircraft could.
I was working up in Cairns and wanted to get back to Brisbane, managed to get the jump seat on a DC9 (back when you could) however we could not land in Brisbane and diverted to Sydney.
I finally got back home to Brisbane from Sydney in the jump seat of an Ansett F27, unbelievable sight as we landed with water lapping the runway, had to back track on the main runway as the taxiways were all under water or had cows grazing next to them.
Never so pleased to be on an F27.
I was working up in Cairns and wanted to get back to Brisbane, managed to get the jump seat on a DC9 (back when you could) however we could not land in Brisbane and diverted to Sydney.
I finally got back home to Brisbane from Sydney in the jump seat of an Ansett F27, unbelievable sight as we landed with water lapping the runway, had to back track on the main runway as the taxiways were all under water or had cows grazing next to them.
Never so pleased to be on an F27.
Possibly an urban myth, although I had heard a remarkably similar story.
During an enquiry into a potential prop - striking - a -passenger incident, irritated when both the Traffic Officer and Ground Engineer seemed unconcerned, John Dorward (then the DFO) went ballistic and quoted this story:
It was at SYD, involved (yet another) TWU dispute which resulted in staff loading and unloading aircraft, late at night and staff member allegedly had "had a few", then walked into a running down propellor, subsequently collapsing in shock when he realized what he had done...
During an enquiry into a potential prop - striking - a -passenger incident, irritated when both the Traffic Officer and Ground Engineer seemed unconcerned, John Dorward (then the DFO) went ballistic and quoted this story:
It was at SYD, involved (yet another) TWU dispute which resulted in staff loading and unloading aircraft, late at night and staff member allegedly had "had a few", then walked into a running down propellor, subsequently collapsing in shock when he realized what he had done...
Anyone remember if the old Brisbane Airport escaped flooding in 74??
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Anyone remember if the old Brisbane Airport escaped flooding in 74??
See post just above.
That was the OLD airport, closed for days to most flights, only airliner that managed to get in was the F27.
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I heard the same story. Incredibly lucky if if was true. Heard a similar story of a ground crew guy tackling a woman (quite forcefully - and necessarily) to stop her walking through a spinning prop disc, and the "lady", who considered herself to be quite important, going ballistic and wanting the guy to be charged for assaulting her. She couldn't bring herself to admit how close her stupidity had come to having her kill herself and insisted his actions were quite unnecessary.
Speaking of spinning F27 props... at Devonport and Wynyard, (or was it just Wynyard?), where the wingtip could quite literally hang out over the carpark when you parked the 40,000 lb dogwhistle for the night, (and the taxi would be there, parked nose in up against the low wire fence - what passed for security in those now far off days pre-9/11), it was a point if honour for the Melbourne AN pilots to complete the paperwork, install the bungs, pitot/static covers and undercarriage locks (this last item sometimes a dirty business) and be sitting in the taxi waiting for the two girls before the props had run down.
The luverly local AN groundstaff used to do the cleaning, remove the potty (which they'd leave under the tail for the night so it didn't 'smell up' the aircraft) and lock the aircraft up for the night.
Someone mentioned shutting one down for taxi. On the Track Trip, some captains allowed their inner cowboy to surface and would sometimes shut both engines down and coast in for the final few metres to the parking spot. (The aim was to judge it right so you didn't have to brake to come to a stop on the spot.)
In Alice one day, the AN F27 came in with its load of pax, many of whom would be transferring to the AN B727 that was waiting on the tarmac along with the TAA 727 and the TAA F27, (which had won the race that day by a matter of minutes).
With quite a potential audience of fellow aviators, to say nothing of the passengers, the AN F27 captain caged both donks just as he entered the main tarmac, with more than enough speed up to easily make it to the parking spot.
Just after he shut down his engines, the following message, spoken with some sense of urgency, was heard over the radio: "Foxtrot November Quebec, hold position!"
(Of course), the F27 captain applied his brakes immediately and the aircraft came to a (very silent) stop.
Silence reigned for about twenty seconds before the F27 pilot called the tower, asking (very annoyed) why he'd been told to stop.
The Tower (a very different voice) replied with: "Foxtrot November Quebec, I'd didn't ask you stop."
No one ever admitted to doing it, but it can be safely assumed that there was a crew in the cockpit of one of the Boeings (or perhaps the TAA F27) chuckling away to themselves as the very embarrassed AN crew had to start an engine to make the final 30 meters of their journey.
There were also the stories of the TAA and Ansett F27s swapping one of their FAs (always the junior girl) for the middle sector of the Track Trip (Katherine to Tennant Creek or vice versa). (There was alwys the worry that one of the aircraft would go u/s, so the first aircraft never got airborne before the second one had both engines running.) The pax absolutely loved it, of course, but you can only image what a career-ender it would be for both captains in this day and age, where you could guarantee a film clip would appear on YouTube within 24 hours.
I'm told many photographs exist proving this to have happened.
Speaking of spinning F27 props... at Devonport and Wynyard, (or was it just Wynyard?), where the wingtip could quite literally hang out over the carpark when you parked the 40,000 lb dogwhistle for the night, (and the taxi would be there, parked nose in up against the low wire fence - what passed for security in those now far off days pre-9/11), it was a point if honour for the Melbourne AN pilots to complete the paperwork, install the bungs, pitot/static covers and undercarriage locks (this last item sometimes a dirty business) and be sitting in the taxi waiting for the two girls before the props had run down.
The luverly local AN groundstaff used to do the cleaning, remove the potty (which they'd leave under the tail for the night so it didn't 'smell up' the aircraft) and lock the aircraft up for the night.
Someone mentioned shutting one down for taxi. On the Track Trip, some captains allowed their inner cowboy to surface and would sometimes shut both engines down and coast in for the final few metres to the parking spot. (The aim was to judge it right so you didn't have to brake to come to a stop on the spot.)
In Alice one day, the AN F27 came in with its load of pax, many of whom would be transferring to the AN B727 that was waiting on the tarmac along with the TAA 727 and the TAA F27, (which had won the race that day by a matter of minutes).
With quite a potential audience of fellow aviators, to say nothing of the passengers, the AN F27 captain caged both donks just as he entered the main tarmac, with more than enough speed up to easily make it to the parking spot.
Just after he shut down his engines, the following message, spoken with some sense of urgency, was heard over the radio: "Foxtrot November Quebec, hold position!"
(Of course), the F27 captain applied his brakes immediately and the aircraft came to a (very silent) stop.
Silence reigned for about twenty seconds before the F27 pilot called the tower, asking (very annoyed) why he'd been told to stop.
The Tower (a very different voice) replied with: "Foxtrot November Quebec, I'd didn't ask you stop."
No one ever admitted to doing it, but it can be safely assumed that there was a crew in the cockpit of one of the Boeings (or perhaps the TAA F27) chuckling away to themselves as the very embarrassed AN crew had to start an engine to make the final 30 meters of their journey.
There were also the stories of the TAA and Ansett F27s swapping one of their FAs (always the junior girl) for the middle sector of the Track Trip (Katherine to Tennant Creek or vice versa). (There was alwys the worry that one of the aircraft would go u/s, so the first aircraft never got airborne before the second one had both engines running.) The pax absolutely loved it, of course, but you can only image what a career-ender it would be for both captains in this day and age, where you could guarantee a film clip would appear on YouTube within 24 hours.
I'm told many photographs exist proving this to have happened.
So airsupport care to make a prediction for BN in the next 48 hours?
Not that I would ever do this (of course), but FA swapping on the middle (TC - TD) sector of the "Track Trip" was very common.
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So airsupport care to make a prediction for BN in the next 48 hours?
IF they are right about the heights.
Silly Old Git
The Frugal was also a good haven for those that couldn't manage
Screw it all up and hey, you went back to the Fokker
Want there someone endorsed on every plane in the fleet?
Screw it all up and hey, you went back to the Fokker
Want there someone endorsed on every plane in the fleet?
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Arrrrr yes, room under the stairs and the tartan bar round the corner if you did a quick change and beat closing time.
lot's of girls were quicker into civies than some tech crew.
Regards
lot's of girls were quicker into civies than some tech crew.
Regards
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This I heard in mid 1970s. When the 2 airlines,oh let's call them Ansett & TAA,used to race each other Brisbane,Maryborough,Bundaberg,then wait all day for the race back in the afternoon. As the wait in Bundy was considerable,crews secured the aircraft & went to the motel for a few hours.
Upon return to the airport in the afternoon it was a rush to get away first. However,on one occasion the TAA crew had lost the key to the door of their F27. Ansett,loaded up & casually departed whilst the TAA boys searched pockets,jackets,nav bags for the key. Desperate times call for desperate measures, & the airport groundsman with his enormous set of keys finally found one that opened the lock. Pax embarked & flight set off,somewhat late.
Now,has anyone else heard that story or indeed been one of the unnamed characters?
Upon return to the airport in the afternoon it was a rush to get away first. However,on one occasion the TAA crew had lost the key to the door of their F27. Ansett,loaded up & casually departed whilst the TAA boys searched pockets,jackets,nav bags for the key. Desperate times call for desperate measures, & the airport groundsman with his enormous set of keys finally found one that opened the lock. Pax embarked & flight set off,somewhat late.
Now,has anyone else heard that story or indeed been one of the unnamed characters?
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if you did a quick change and beat closing time
You can have the Hiltons and Sheratons. I reckon the Grand was the best pub we stayed in across the network.
You can have the Hiltons and Sheratons. I reckon the Grand was the best pub we stayed in across the network.