Ansett and the Fokker Friendship
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BRISBANE QLD AUSTRALIA
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At first thought,(Kingscote)/ Kangaroo Island, Ceduna, and random trips to (Olympic Dam)/ Roxby Downs in thes south, most likely more up QLD way!!!! Went quite well in the dirt. Did not like mud up in the nose wheel area, played havoc with the retract/extend bizzo!!!!
Regards
Regards
Moomba as well before it was sealed. I can remember going into Kingscote with John O'Hagan, famous for having an ID that showed a picture of his dog (F/O 'Barker'). I cannot recall how long it took before someone noticed, about 6 months I think. Very funny man, Irish and ex-helicopter.
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Imagine if one had augered in with a dozen on board
We routinely did local with folk in the back with pax configured aircraft.
However, I sometimes think back to my Electra endorsement with trepidation ..
(a) did the lot at night, including all the engine failures
(b) no seats in the back so we all stood around in the cockpit sort of hanging on to whatever makeshift handgrips were available
However the man running the show did demo a three point turn on the taxiway and that was pretty neat ..
We routinely did local with folk in the back with pax configured aircraft.
However, I sometimes think back to my Electra endorsement with trepidation ..
(a) did the lot at night, including all the engine failures
(b) no seats in the back so we all stood around in the cockpit sort of hanging on to whatever makeshift handgrips were available
However the man running the show did demo a three point turn on the taxiway and that was pretty neat ..
Thread Starter
Did the TAA F-27's ever operate Melbourne direct Williamtown, or was always Sydney?
The TAA flight operating Darwin to Dili , was that on behalf of Qantas or in TAA's own right?
Did TAA base an F-27 in Darwin, or did the aircraft operate through to Darwin from Brisbane via the western QLD route?
The TAA flight operating Darwin to Dili , was that on behalf of Qantas or in TAA's own right?
Did TAA base an F-27 in Darwin, or did the aircraft operate through to Darwin from Brisbane via the western QLD route?
MMA's F-27's did operate into EUCLA for a time, (CHTR) servicing a rig in the near vicinity....would have been only hard sand at the time...probably still is.
And, not too long thereafter, one ran off the 'hard stuff' whilst turning at... Leinster/or Leonora was it'..(?) and got 'stuck' for a while....
VERY early '80's or thereabouts....
And, not too long thereafter, one ran off the 'hard stuff' whilst turning at... Leinster/or Leonora was it'..(?) and got 'stuck' for a while....
VERY early '80's or thereabouts....
Unsealed Runways in F27’s
There were simply no restrictions – if it was serviceable it could be used!
The only totally unsealed airfield in the Melbourne-based network was Flinders Island; published as being “crushed limestone” it was like landing in talcum powder, a smooth landing was virtually assured.
Many on-line ports had alternate (crossing) runways that could be used if the crosswind on the sealed runway was excessive; Portland, Warrnambool, King Island, Hamilton and Wagga Wagga spring immediately to mind.
There was a trick to Hamilton, where overflying was distinctly frowned upon. If the forecast indicated a strong crosswind, you could ring ahead and get a flarepath laid on the cross (gravel) strip. Inevitably on arrival, peering down at the illuminated windsock would reveal no such crosswind, but you were sort of obliged to land on the gravel just to justify the time and effort to lay out the flares!
As Griffo says, many charters were to unsealed airfields also. From my own experience to Deniliquin once (FIVE F27’s; the sealed runway wasn’t available for some reason), several charters to airfields in the Qld coalfields and also to Mt Tom Price and Laverton in WA.
There were simply no restrictions – if it was serviceable it could be used!
The only totally unsealed airfield in the Melbourne-based network was Flinders Island; published as being “crushed limestone” it was like landing in talcum powder, a smooth landing was virtually assured.
Many on-line ports had alternate (crossing) runways that could be used if the crosswind on the sealed runway was excessive; Portland, Warrnambool, King Island, Hamilton and Wagga Wagga spring immediately to mind.
There was a trick to Hamilton, where overflying was distinctly frowned upon. If the forecast indicated a strong crosswind, you could ring ahead and get a flarepath laid on the cross (gravel) strip. Inevitably on arrival, peering down at the illuminated windsock would reveal no such crosswind, but you were sort of obliged to land on the gravel just to justify the time and effort to lay out the flares!
As Griffo says, many charters were to unsealed airfields also. From my own experience to Deniliquin once (FIVE F27’s; the sealed runway wasn’t available for some reason), several charters to airfields in the Qld coalfields and also to Mt Tom Price and Laverton in WA.
In the early 80's runway 06/24 at DPO was closed whilst a B727-200 standard runway was constructed in it's place. During this period a short temporary gravel runway 06/24 was constructed by placing an overlay of gravel on grass.
The gravel strip width was 15 metres and it looked like a cricket pitch on approach. During the winter it was soft with large pools of surface water at times. The F27 took it in its stride and after arrival in MEL the a/c often needed a spuce up to remove the 'mud' and an engineering check.
The gravel strip width was 15 metres and it looked like a cricket pitch on approach. During the winter it was soft with large pools of surface water at times. The F27 took it in its stride and after arrival in MEL the a/c often needed a spuce up to remove the 'mud' and an engineering check.
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Launceston also used a temporary gravel strip in the early sixties when they upgraded the runway. From memory a AN F-27 crashed short of the 32 threshold and was destroyed by the ensuing fire, but I don't think any lives were lost.
They also used the gravel runway again in the early eighties during runway works, and a Air Tasmania Heron came to grief landing 14.
They also used the gravel runway again in the early eighties during runway works, and a Air Tasmania Heron came to grief landing 14.
The LST Rwy 32 accident was the classic case of a single-engined approach using Flap 40 going (inevitably) wrong. I don't think it had anything to do with landing/not landing on a sealed runway.
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A 15 m wide soggy gravel strip with DPO's notorious NW x/winds must have been interesting. I would suppose that the normal x/w limitation would have been halved for the 15 m approval?
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Unsealed RWYs?
I recall that the F50 was flown in and out of Wagga for a while when the bitumen strip was being re-sealed. This meant that operations were confined to the grass strip.
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Unsealed strips
I recall being a pax on an F27 taking off from Brewarrina in the early sixties.The strip was only about 1000 metres long,with a 20 knot headwind.They held the brakes,put on lots of power.Off she went with room to spare.Very impressive!
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Stop beating around the bush, in it's day it was a world beater, noisy yes, difficult to fly well yes, but a great base A/C to get your first airline command on.
Regards
Regards
Dog One.
From memory the F27 was certified for an 18 metre runway width contained within a 90 metre strip width. One or two of the AN F27 Captains queried the
suitability and width of the temporary runway and were told the runway met the requirements as it was 18 metres wide with a gravel surface on the central 15 metres.
Ps. Did anyone operate the F27 or F50 to Rupert Murdoch's farm paddock which was referred to as Rupes Place.
Ps. Seeing a B757-200 on the 30 metre runway at AYQ was interesting !.
From memory the F27 was certified for an 18 metre runway width contained within a 90 metre strip width. One or two of the AN F27 Captains queried the
suitability and width of the temporary runway and were told the runway met the requirements as it was 18 metres wide with a gravel surface on the central 15 metres.
Ps. Did anyone operate the F27 or F50 to Rupert Murdoch's farm paddock which was referred to as Rupes Place.
Ps. Seeing a B757-200 on the 30 metre runway at AYQ was interesting !.
Last edited by B772; 27th Jan 2017 at 02:05.
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I was surprised when they laid the gravel strip at DPO, because in the sixties and early seventy's, the boundary markers on the northern side of RW24/06 were displaced to allow for a grass strip, the same lenght as the sealed runway. This was used by DC4's when runway works were carried out.
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Did anyone operate the F27 or F50 to Rupert Murdoch's farm paddock which was referred to as Rupes Place?
The one thing I do recall was that the gravel was a bit soft (it had rained relatively recently before we went in there) and the Friendly's wheels left quite definite ruts in the strip and the parking area.
I'm told we also threw up quite a bit of gravel as we started the takeoff run, much to the discomfort of those onlookers silly enough to be standing quite some distance behind the aircraft.
The strip was no more restrictive than some of the places we landed at on the Around Australia Charters, (probably the best holiday I've ever been paid to take).
The only downside to those excellent trips was the stupidity of the Flight Attendants' Union (the head office in Melbourne) forbidding the same two girls from doing the whole trip - the Union insisted on a crew change half way around the trip. (I think it was in Darwin.) I think it would be safe to say 100% of the ANSW girls hated that, as did the pax, who really bonded with the girls. (On the subject of the ANSW girls, if there was a lemon among them, I can't recall her. What a great bunch they were.)
I still have a vivid memory of walking into the bar at the Roebuck Arms in Broome with our two FAs in tow. Both girls were seriously overdressed for the Roey and both of them were very near the top of the tree in the 'eye candy' department. The utter silence as forty feral West Orstralyan male drinkers stopped, to a man, to ogle the girls and look daggers at me and the FO was something to behold.
On one of the earliest Around Australia charters, one captain (the redoubtable Caveman) had to ask the pax if one of them would agree to use his American Express card to pay for the fuel at one of the more remote airfields, as the fuelling agent wouldn't accept the ANSW carnet.
I have to agree with earlier posts regarding ANSW. What a gem of an operation it was - and not just the aircrew. Pat and Malcolm ran about the most efficient and happy Admin. Department I've ever run across in my life.
I've just discovered this thread and agree with others' comments that it's been a pleasure to read - with the exception of posts #282 and 283. The less said about that individual the better. The many nicknames he collected over his years with AN - every one of the pejorative - says it all.
Wiley, regarding your last paragraph - when I was doing my command training (this was 1977-ish), part of my line flying was with a certain CC, actually a really good guy. By about my third sector of flying as PF, every time I asked for something I would get something idiotically different, e.g. asking for the landing checklist produced the limitations being read out, asking for gear up on take off produced more flap etc etc.
Eventually I asked him what the the f*** he was doing - his response was: "I am training you to fly with R** T*****!"
I thought he was joking until I had to fly with that creature.
Eventually I asked him what the the f*** he was doing - his response was: "I am training you to fly with R** T*****!"
I thought he was joking until I had to fly with that creature.
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VH-TQQ accident at Amberley
Does anybody have the background to the landing accident involving VH-TQQ at RAAF Amberley about June 1982?
I was in the jump seat of a Chinook at the holding point for RWY 15 when TQQ appeared on short finals, flapless, with a reasonably high rate of descent. A big thump later, and a left main wheel bounced back over the horizontal stab and aircraft started veering left.
That wouldn't have been so bad except the left MLG hit the arrestor barrier drum off the side of the runway, neatly collapsing the gear leg and removing the left prop. TQQ then slid on the right MLG, NLG and left wingtip in a graceful arc and came to a halt just past the F111 engine test facility on the eastern side of RWY 15. Timing is everything as about ten minutes earlier, an F111 under tow had been waiting to cross back to the tarmac area and TQQ went through about where it had been waiting.
TQQ's remaining servicable prop wound down and several figures jumped out and decamped. Our aircraft captain (Welsh RAF exchange officer and terribly nice bloke) called Amberley Ground with words to the effect "confirm you've seen the aircraft crash on the runway?" - shortly after the crash alarm sounded. And then we went for a fly.
Next day, I had an interview with an investigator as it appeared that I was the only eye-witness as both the drivers had their heads inside doing engine checks. There was a rumour that two (or more) check-type people were involved. Poor old TQQ was removed by a low-loader several days later.
I'd really like to know what went on in the front seats...
DF
I was in the jump seat of a Chinook at the holding point for RWY 15 when TQQ appeared on short finals, flapless, with a reasonably high rate of descent. A big thump later, and a left main wheel bounced back over the horizontal stab and aircraft started veering left.
That wouldn't have been so bad except the left MLG hit the arrestor barrier drum off the side of the runway, neatly collapsing the gear leg and removing the left prop. TQQ then slid on the right MLG, NLG and left wingtip in a graceful arc and came to a halt just past the F111 engine test facility on the eastern side of RWY 15. Timing is everything as about ten minutes earlier, an F111 under tow had been waiting to cross back to the tarmac area and TQQ went through about where it had been waiting.
TQQ's remaining servicable prop wound down and several figures jumped out and decamped. Our aircraft captain (Welsh RAF exchange officer and terribly nice bloke) called Amberley Ground with words to the effect "confirm you've seen the aircraft crash on the runway?" - shortly after the crash alarm sounded. And then we went for a fly.
Next day, I had an interview with an investigator as it appeared that I was the only eye-witness as both the drivers had their heads inside doing engine checks. There was a rumour that two (or more) check-type people were involved. Poor old TQQ was removed by a low-loader several days later.
I'd really like to know what went on in the front seats...
DF