RUMOUR - NZ Loan-funded Training to be slashed...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Goblin, I wasn't smart, I paid for the whole lot myself, ah well. Debt free, cept for that ruddy mortgage. bugger!
Now don't be taking the disappointment of another bledisloe cup loss out on us new zeaaalanders, it's not your fault that your kiwi rugby coach has muppets for players. I reckon we should give Southland a go against the Wally-bies next time out, give them a stiff anyway.
Now don't be taking the disappointment of another bledisloe cup loss out on us new zeaaalanders, it's not your fault that your kiwi rugby coach has muppets for players. I reckon we should give Southland a go against the Wally-bies next time out, give them a stiff anyway.
Jokes aside, in both countries you need to have lived there for two years to get benefits, not six months. A student loan, however, is available immediately to Australians, and you can borrow an extra $150 per week (back in 2007 anyway) for living costs. I assume HECS is available immediately to NZers in Australia too.
In Australia it pissed me off that all the uni students were complaining and even protesting about their HECS contribution percentage (what is it these days, about 1/5th of whatever you cost the gov't?), yet pilots were unable to get gov't funding at all for their training.
I could have worked full time and flown an hour a week for four years (didn't have the luxury of living with the olds) just to get a CPL, then another year or two for the multi instrument and instructor ratings. Probably would still be training! Instead, I went to NZ, got the loan, had it ALL done within 12 months and now I have four years industry experience on top of that. I'm pretty sure I made the right choice, and I can tell you I had/have just as much motivation and passion as anyone who paid for it as they went!!
Limit the places and find the right people, sure, but I don't think cutting the places to nearly zero is really a help to the industry.
In Australia it pissed me off that all the uni students were complaining and even protesting about their HECS contribution percentage (what is it these days, about 1/5th of whatever you cost the gov't?), yet pilots were unable to get gov't funding at all for their training.
I could have worked full time and flown an hour a week for four years (didn't have the luxury of living with the olds) just to get a CPL, then another year or two for the multi instrument and instructor ratings. Probably would still be training! Instead, I went to NZ, got the loan, had it ALL done within 12 months and now I have four years industry experience on top of that. I'm pretty sure I made the right choice, and I can tell you I had/have just as much motivation and passion as anyone who paid for it as they went!!
Limit the places and find the right people, sure, but I don't think cutting the places to nearly zero is really a help to the industry.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maun, Botswana
Age: 37
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its ok, the Aussie's can pride themselves on winding us up easily, but hey, as has been said before "YOU still have to wake each morning, look in the mirror and realise that you were severely beaten by the ugly stick as a child and THEN painted with freckles and given RED hair... cruel cruel world."
Stereotypes suck huh?
Back on topic! The main source of jobs for low houred guys in NZ is instructing. Why would you want to cut the number of people to instruct?
Fancy another 2 years of instructor wages until you get enough hours for Eagle/Mt Cook/Air Nelson?
Stereotypes suck huh?
Back on topic! The main source of jobs for low houred guys in NZ is instructing. Why would you want to cut the number of people to instruct?
Fancy another 2 years of instructor wages until you get enough hours for Eagle/Mt Cook/Air Nelson?
Last edited by lilflyboy262; 20th Aug 2010 at 15:46. Reason: Spelling
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NZ
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I'm not partial to the idea of having my tax dollars pay for student loans to keep recent grads in work instructing new students.
As much as I want to see the aviation industry prosper, I also don't want it to drown with over supply of pilots, which in turn leads to degradation of terms & conditions, which will make the industry an undesirable career path.
It's part of the industry to go through the peaks and troughs of employment cycles. At the moment there is little demand for pilots yet hundreds are still under training to get a job that another couple of hundred are waiting for since they finished their training.
I support a a variable cap on student loan funded flight training in sync with industry demand.
Currently there are hundreds in training for an industry that has had fewer than 50 movements a year for the past couple of years. That's including the pseudo hiring increase due self funded career enhancements.
Maybe a hold on loans for a year or two will allow those already trained to be soaked into the system.
Of course those that are determined will and can fund their own way through, like we had to do in the old days.....
S2K
As much as I want to see the aviation industry prosper, I also don't want it to drown with over supply of pilots, which in turn leads to degradation of terms & conditions, which will make the industry an undesirable career path.
It's part of the industry to go through the peaks and troughs of employment cycles. At the moment there is little demand for pilots yet hundreds are still under training to get a job that another couple of hundred are waiting for since they finished their training.
I support a a variable cap on student loan funded flight training in sync with industry demand.
Currently there are hundreds in training for an industry that has had fewer than 50 movements a year for the past couple of years. That's including the pseudo hiring increase due self funded career enhancements.
Maybe a hold on loans for a year or two will allow those already trained to be soaked into the system.
Of course those that are determined will and can fund their own way through, like we had to do in the old days.....
S2K
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Someday I will find a place to stop
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
6 Posts
Look, Air NZ doesn't need anymore jet pilots until 2016 they say, so hence the flow and movement within NZ will continue to have close to no movement.
What is the point in training then unless you intend to go overseas.
-And I mean further afield than Australia which is transfixed on hiring rich cadets at the moment.
Capping the loans is not preventing you from getting a job, there are next to none anyway!
What is the point in training then unless you intend to go overseas.
-And I mean further afield than Australia which is transfixed on hiring rich cadets at the moment.
Capping the loans is not preventing you from getting a job, there are next to none anyway!
lilflyboy262 is correct, cutting the govt funding has some rather dire implications for us private fliers as well as the career pilots. A lot of the small clubs who provide flight training rely on the revenue from Part 141 operations and a sudden reduction in funding means a rather bleak looking balance sheet. The resulting loss of students means less instructors, increased hire rates, and potentially, closure of some schools and clubs.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just as a note re Aussies getting Student Loans in NZ. There's talk, if hasn't happened already of a two year stand down period being implemented for Australians coming here to study before being eligible for Student Loans.......
I say good. I know it doesn't apply to all but some folk come here, get a loan, study, and leave - never to repay the loan and leave the burden on the NZ tax payer......... This needed to be addressed!
I say good. I know it doesn't apply to all but some folk come here, get a loan, study, and leave - never to repay the loan and leave the burden on the NZ tax payer......... This needed to be addressed!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a caravan
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just as a note re Aussies getting Student Loans in NZ. There's talk, if hasn't happened already of a two year stand down period being implemented for Australians coming here to study before being eligible for Student Loans.......
I say good. I know it doesn't apply to all but some folk come here, get a loan, study, and leave - never to repay the loan and leave the burden on the NZ tax payer......... This needed to be addressed!
I say good. I know it doesn't apply to all but some folk come here, get a loan, study, and leave - never to repay the loan and leave the burden on the NZ tax payer......... This needed to be addressed!
hence I got in early
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia, NZ, PNG, Indonesia, USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the student loan thing needs to stop now in NZ. I was recently there and was very shocked at how slow the industry is in NZ, yet the flying schools are churning them out really quickly. Some of the guys are absolute muppets and would never have got into the industry if it were not for the loan scheme. The company I fly for will not hire a student loan pilot. If they will not invest their own money in there career then why should we?. There are plenty of other pilots out there who have made sacraficies. Also there has been a number of pilots who have got employment and have let their emp[loyer down after he has spent huge money on them for training.
A new trick we do now, is find a prospective employees facebook page. I have seen some facebook pages that show heavy drinking parties and even car crashes. Sorry no expensive toys for pilots with that type of life.
If they put there own money into it, them they have a personal heavy investment. There is NO pilot shortage at present. Judgeing by the CV's we get weekly, there are some very good guys out there worldwide. The flying schools in NZ are taking money on false pretenses, it is criminal really. I saying that these young pilotsa have no appreciation of debt, for a 20 year old to be $80 K in debt is criminal.
My wife is in early childhood education. When we lived in NZ it was really hard getting money from the government for young children learning. yet they gave a absolute dick head a Hughes 500 endorsement and the guy is unemployable. Where is the logic. Australians can come in and get a loan then go back to aussie never repay a cent cos the government hasnt the balls to enforse it. Many honest tax payers are obviously not aware of the extent of rip off out there.
Yes I am a kiwi, CPL fixed wing and rotor living and working out of NZ. I am a kiwi and proud of it and would love to go home and fly in my own country. I paid for my training working as a shearer and paua diver in the late 70's early 80's. I recently helped a young low houred guy recently into his first job. he was self funded australian who did the hard yards and deserved a break, I would not extend the same courtesy to a kiwi student loan pilot.
Again stop the loans, NZ needs no more pilots there are plenty there now many will never keep current so will drop off the way side. But there debt will never leave. The industry can start training there own pilots if the need should come and taking there own risks, rather than tax payer money going to guys who will not even pay for the flying to keep themselves current and are unemployable.
Also I have noticed the standard of training going backward real fast. This year pilots trained by last year students, there is no depth to training and no mentors for professionalism. I could go on, but have probably bored you all enough now.
NZH
A new trick we do now, is find a prospective employees facebook page. I have seen some facebook pages that show heavy drinking parties and even car crashes. Sorry no expensive toys for pilots with that type of life.
If they put there own money into it, them they have a personal heavy investment. There is NO pilot shortage at present. Judgeing by the CV's we get weekly, there are some very good guys out there worldwide. The flying schools in NZ are taking money on false pretenses, it is criminal really. I saying that these young pilotsa have no appreciation of debt, for a 20 year old to be $80 K in debt is criminal.
My wife is in early childhood education. When we lived in NZ it was really hard getting money from the government for young children learning. yet they gave a absolute dick head a Hughes 500 endorsement and the guy is unemployable. Where is the logic. Australians can come in and get a loan then go back to aussie never repay a cent cos the government hasnt the balls to enforse it. Many honest tax payers are obviously not aware of the extent of rip off out there.
Yes I am a kiwi, CPL fixed wing and rotor living and working out of NZ. I am a kiwi and proud of it and would love to go home and fly in my own country. I paid for my training working as a shearer and paua diver in the late 70's early 80's. I recently helped a young low houred guy recently into his first job. he was self funded australian who did the hard yards and deserved a break, I would not extend the same courtesy to a kiwi student loan pilot.
Again stop the loans, NZ needs no more pilots there are plenty there now many will never keep current so will drop off the way side. But there debt will never leave. The industry can start training there own pilots if the need should come and taking there own risks, rather than tax payer money going to guys who will not even pay for the flying to keep themselves current and are unemployable.
Also I have noticed the standard of training going backward real fast. This year pilots trained by last year students, there is no depth to training and no mentors for professionalism. I could go on, but have probably bored you all enough now.
NZH
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's disgraceful to see the way many schools rape the studylink-funding accounts of those individuals whom they have already written off as no-hopers with no possible future in this industry.
Less funding will result in schools be more selective and those who are left to self fund might come to conclusions about their future sooner if things are consistently 'off course' so to speak ......!
Launchpad, I understand your point, but I shall expand a little on mine. While it might be easier for a smaller establishment to cope with a downturn, the fact is that in the last 5 years the cost of flying has risen by a significant margin (fuel, insurance, Airways and Airport charges, rent etc...), and some clubs may find it difficult to return to the "modus operandi that existed prior to the sausage factory days". Difficult is not impossible, but for some clubs it might as well be.
As for the funding administration point, I couldn't agree more.
As for the funding administration point, I couldn't agree more.
NZHW,
Your company can choose whoever they like, but anyone eligible who has not taken advantage of the student loan is financially incompetent. If you have 80k saved, you would be significantly better off to put that in a high interest account and do the training interest free. To do otherwise is throwing (possibly tens of) thousands of dollars down the drain!!
AFAIK there are compulsory exit points for not achieving certain mile stones as of a few years back. Not going solo by 20hrs and failing exams a certain number of times.
Perhaps when a student does fail in this way the school needs to lose their funding for that place on the course. Once again I've been out of the loop for a few years now but when I was involved I'm sure the school still had access to the remaining portion of the funds (not that particular student's funds, but the equivalent full time student position could be allocated to another student). Changing that ought to make the schools a little more choosy about who they enrol.
And last but certainly not least, I absolutely agree with those saying the nationwide places need to reflect the number of pilots needed in the industry. This needs to be audited and adjusted every year by someone without a conflict of interest.
Your company can choose whoever they like, but anyone eligible who has not taken advantage of the student loan is financially incompetent. If you have 80k saved, you would be significantly better off to put that in a high interest account and do the training interest free. To do otherwise is throwing (possibly tens of) thousands of dollars down the drain!!
AFAIK there are compulsory exit points for not achieving certain mile stones as of a few years back. Not going solo by 20hrs and failing exams a certain number of times.
Perhaps when a student does fail in this way the school needs to lose their funding for that place on the course. Once again I've been out of the loop for a few years now but when I was involved I'm sure the school still had access to the remaining portion of the funds (not that particular student's funds, but the equivalent full time student position could be allocated to another student). Changing that ought to make the schools a little more choosy about who they enrol.
And last but certainly not least, I absolutely agree with those saying the nationwide places need to reflect the number of pilots needed in the industry. This needs to be audited and adjusted every year by someone without a conflict of interest.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: In Transit
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZHW
Well thats fair enough but there are those of us who have used the student loan scheme (unashamedly, i'm one of them) and still mean business.
I have to agree with glekichi on this one. From the individuals perspective you'd be silly not to take advantage and don't have a go at those of us that did just because that luxury wasn't available when you were a youngling.
By the same token, yes, funding numbers need to be limited in such times as these.
rather than tax payer money going to guys who will not even pay for the flying to keep themselves current and are unemployable.
I have to agree with glekichi on this one. From the individuals perspective you'd be silly not to take advantage and don't have a go at those of us that did just because that luxury wasn't available when you were a youngling.
By the same token, yes, funding numbers need to be limited in such times as these.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: new zealand
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZHW
Heliwhore 100% behind you, NZ is backwards with its Loan funding scheme.
I work worldwide and everytime I come home to our great wee country it annoys you too see it being used and abused.
The cadetships approaching now are just an extension of the loan setup.
Geez Im getting grumpy in my ripening years.
Still I would take self funded over breastfeed pilots anyday.
Look foward to the attack..............
I work worldwide and everytime I come home to our great wee country it annoys you too see it being used and abused.
The cadetships approaching now are just an extension of the loan setup.
Geez Im getting grumpy in my ripening years.
Still I would take self funded over breastfeed pilots anyday.
Look foward to the attack..............
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is indeed a sad state that the training/loan situation has developed into in NZ. As someone who like many others self funded their way through all the training (a fair while ago now) - we didn't have the luxury of being able to have a student loan to do the training with at the time. However, as glekichi says in the post above, given the opportunity most of us would have taken it on a simple mathematical basis, in that firstly it would have lessened the cost of the training, and secondly enabled us to complete the training quicker and thereby be ready to apply for any suitable jobs sooner. The current problems that this has created though of over supply and in some cases sub-standard training and graduates is very much a huge disadvantage of the system. Obviously if it is still to be made available for genuine students, perhaps some more checks and balances are going to have to be put into place in order to improve the quality of the graduates and perhaps to an extent also address the oversupply issues.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia, NZ, PNG, Indonesia, USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I was expecting an attack on here which never really happened. I have heard thru sorces that for every dollar the NZ government has put into aviation student loans they are currently getting a projected 17 cents back.
That is very poor business and you can only expect it to stop with a statistic anything like that.
I saw in a article from the NMIT that a 50 year old guy got fully trained on the student loan scheeme. If he has 80K of debt and we get another 12 years befor he fails a medical. He would have to pay $128 per week without a inflation calculation and CPI. If the IRD do the normal calculations he will never pay it back complettely. The system is flawed in the respect that many will never pay it all back. At least the Key government are prepared to look at repayments and recovery.
All those guys who have debt ( I know one guy did 220 hrs on rotor and does not have a licence ) real smart move, working in a bakery paying that off. It will get to be a real drag after 5 years.
Some guys who have licences medical are no longer valid and they cannot afford to get current to do a BFR. ( real clever and undedicated )
Piont taken, there are those out there who are serious and do pay for currency on a weekly or fortnightly thing once acheived a licence. And yes some do pay for it all themselves, good on you. However we must realise that those out there who are doing the employing are self funded oldies. So some of the posts on this site will reflect that.
Aeroclubs will not suffer any more than they are now and actually there are very few clubs in NZ who rely on the student loan system, if anything it will enhance the clubs and make them more active. Yes there will be a lot of instructors floating around unemployed, but do the sums. It is cheaper to give them the dole than have them flying burning more government money. yes they may leave the country ,,, but their debt just gets bigger, so stay in NZ where there are no jobs and drift out of the industry. best thing that could happen as they will get a job outside the industry and pay back there debt.
There was always enough pilots prior to the student loan thing, the industry was not suffering, wages were good...
NZ is a great weee country, not a place for hand outs becos it IS a loan. The government will come looking one day for the money.
NZH
That is very poor business and you can only expect it to stop with a statistic anything like that.
I saw in a article from the NMIT that a 50 year old guy got fully trained on the student loan scheeme. If he has 80K of debt and we get another 12 years befor he fails a medical. He would have to pay $128 per week without a inflation calculation and CPI. If the IRD do the normal calculations he will never pay it back complettely. The system is flawed in the respect that many will never pay it all back. At least the Key government are prepared to look at repayments and recovery.
All those guys who have debt ( I know one guy did 220 hrs on rotor and does not have a licence ) real smart move, working in a bakery paying that off. It will get to be a real drag after 5 years.
Some guys who have licences medical are no longer valid and they cannot afford to get current to do a BFR. ( real clever and undedicated )
Piont taken, there are those out there who are serious and do pay for currency on a weekly or fortnightly thing once acheived a licence. And yes some do pay for it all themselves, good on you. However we must realise that those out there who are doing the employing are self funded oldies. So some of the posts on this site will reflect that.
Aeroclubs will not suffer any more than they are now and actually there are very few clubs in NZ who rely on the student loan system, if anything it will enhance the clubs and make them more active. Yes there will be a lot of instructors floating around unemployed, but do the sums. It is cheaper to give them the dole than have them flying burning more government money. yes they may leave the country ,,, but their debt just gets bigger, so stay in NZ where there are no jobs and drift out of the industry. best thing that could happen as they will get a job outside the industry and pay back there debt.
There was always enough pilots prior to the student loan thing, the industry was not suffering, wages were good...
NZ is a great weee country, not a place for hand outs becos it IS a loan. The government will come looking one day for the money.
NZH
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NZ
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe govt funded loans are the issue. I scrimped and saved for 6 years working full time and studying and flying when ever I could through an aeroclub to get my PPL. My goal was always to go professional and thanks to the loan scheme I was able to quit my job and study fulltime. The benefits of being able to study fulltime should be obvious.
Money is a barrier, but only to the poor. There are plenty of muppets with CPLs who happen to have rich parents who paid for their training. So the argument about self funding producing better pilots doesn't necesarily hold true.
However I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be more control over the number of student loans being issued. Or at the very least there needs to be some sort of aptitude testing to determine a students suitability for training. Ironically this is where the cadetship schemes are (I think) superior to the NMIT courses. Yes I know cadetships are the work of the devil
but having worked as an instructor for a school that trains cadets I can say that they (the students) were the best I've ever had the pleasure of teaching (and I've worked for several flight schools). Getting into a cadetship is a lot harder than many people (including about 80% of people on this site it would seem 
) realise. The students have to pass aptitude tests similar to those conducted by the air force, and if you don't make the grade or you fall behind in training then you're out.
Beside, $80k is a hell of a lot of money to save and it would take most people a long time to do that. I say better to train now while you're still young enough to enjoy it and pay later when you're old enough to afford it
Money is a barrier, but only to the poor. There are plenty of muppets with CPLs who happen to have rich parents who paid for their training. So the argument about self funding producing better pilots doesn't necesarily hold true.
However I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be more control over the number of student loans being issued. Or at the very least there needs to be some sort of aptitude testing to determine a students suitability for training. Ironically this is where the cadetship schemes are (I think) superior to the NMIT courses. Yes I know cadetships are the work of the devil
but having worked as an instructor for a school that trains cadets I can say that they (the students) were the best I've ever had the pleasure of teaching (and I've worked for several flight schools). Getting into a cadetship is a lot harder than many people (including about 80% of people on this site it would seem ) realise. The students have to pass aptitude tests similar to those conducted by the air force, and if you don't make the grade or you fall behind in training then you're out.Beside, $80k is a hell of a lot of money to save and it would take most people a long time to do that. I say better to train now while you're still young enough to enjoy it and pay later when you're old enough to afford it
I saw in a article from the NMIT that a 50 year old guy got fully trained on the student loan scheeme. If he has 80K of debt and we get another 12 years befor he fails a medical. He would have to pay $128 per week without a inflation calculation and CPI. If the IRD do the normal calculations he will never pay it back complettely. The system is flawed in the respect that many will never pay it all back. At least the Key government are prepared to look at repayments and recovery.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: In Transit
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sub-standard training
What you're trying to say there is that, with the advent of student loan funding, the average standard of student has fallen.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia, NZ, PNG, Indonesia, USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel the standard of training in NZ has fallen, however this cannot be totally blamed on the student loan system. Yes it allows a 19 year old to instruct up to CPL level, However , What depth of experience does the instructor have?. I know of B cat instructors who are 21 years old. They teach a sillybis and that is it.. The CAA needs to address this. I have been shockd at the level of knowledge of some guys I have flown with. I own a cessna in NZ and finding some one desent to look after it while I am away is very hard. i only get home a couple of times a year and thats when I use it.. The skill and knowledge level is not there, AND it is not the students fault entirely. I know one instructor who spent years on the dole drink whiskey, now he is an instructor and mentor for a professional pilot?. I think that is a bit of a joke actually and his students reflect this. Back in the old days, you were judge alot on whose instructor name you had in your log book, becos many of the pilots out there were working professionals, not just instructors. They imparted extra knowledge to there students over and beyond the syllibis. This has all gone now and It is partly guys like myself whom are partly to blame for not getting instructor ratings and passing on to the industry. At the end of the day most are too busy trying to earn a living as a pilot and prepare for retirement.
The up side for the CAA when they cut student loans, is that if 80% of training crashes were from student loan providers, it could effectively cut the accident rate in the area by 80%, And they would look like they are doing there job.
There is also the arguement that prior to student loans flying was cheaper. I aggree becos these schools can charge wot they like and they know they are going to get it. If you look at the non funded clubs, flying is still the same proportionally. When I took my first flying lesson, it was in a cessna 150 ZK CSG 12 dec 1978 and it was $26 per hour, When I went solo on my 16th birthday in C 150 CXI it was $27 per hour. I bought a really good pair of boots just after going solo. Top quality great brand $26 they cost. When recently in NZ, I bought a great pair of working boots, great brand top quality. $235, How much is a cessna 150 these days?. To get a cpl self funded at 21 is not out of the question. If you want something badly enough you will get it.
To have saved the funds and then invested to make it grow and get a student loan... well I suppose it is using the system if you have the money. To leave NZ with student debt and no job is financial irresponsibilty.
NZH
The up side for the CAA when they cut student loans, is that if 80% of training crashes were from student loan providers, it could effectively cut the accident rate in the area by 80%, And they would look like they are doing there job.
There is also the arguement that prior to student loans flying was cheaper. I aggree becos these schools can charge wot they like and they know they are going to get it. If you look at the non funded clubs, flying is still the same proportionally. When I took my first flying lesson, it was in a cessna 150 ZK CSG 12 dec 1978 and it was $26 per hour, When I went solo on my 16th birthday in C 150 CXI it was $27 per hour. I bought a really good pair of boots just after going solo. Top quality great brand $26 they cost. When recently in NZ, I bought a great pair of working boots, great brand top quality. $235, How much is a cessna 150 these days?. To get a cpl self funded at 21 is not out of the question. If you want something badly enough you will get it.
To have saved the funds and then invested to make it grow and get a student loan... well I suppose it is using the system if you have the money. To leave NZ with student debt and no job is financial irresponsibilty.
NZH