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Merged: Airtex/Skymaster AOC suspended

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Merged: Airtex/Skymaster AOC suspended

Old 23rd Jul 2010, 10:09
  #1 (permalink)  
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Merged: Airtex/Skymaster AOC suspended

Tell me it's not true - - that CASA have done their usual 5pm Friday stunt. Oh, I'm sorry, it was 4.30, letter under the door, and a phone call telling the operator to read the letter!!!!!!!
Passengers stranded all over Australia - from Darwin to points South and East.
CASA again proving what a bunch of unmitigated ars---------s that they are!
But wait there is more - and you think that Polar Air case was/is a big one - you ain't seen nothin yet!
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 10:28
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Thumbs down

Two accidents in a relatively short period of time..................

O, we didn't see that one coming

Let us all hope their doors stay closed
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 12:00
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Careful: Softly, softly.

Kipling's poem about smugglers springs to mind. "Them as ask no questions, is' nt told no lies". etc. It will depend on who's lies create the 'best' reasonable doubt in a court of LAW, not in the minds of CASA.

Mandatory reading for all Australian operators is the Polar Air saga in WA. Read carefully, then draw your own conclusions children. This is what the industry has, and is forced to deal with on a daily basis.

The Airtex story will become part of our Australian aviation legend, make no mistake. It all depends on what flavour you like your spin, just like coffee. Do not believe, for one moment that the 'authority' has got it right. They are so very much like the gutter press, sketchy proof, big headlines and no apologies issued. What happens , years after the headlines, it turns out that when, proven beyond a reasonable doubt (in a court of criminal real law, with barristers and everything) they were wrong, again. Any changes - not since 1922.

It is fairly sad that this is what Chief Pilots and ATO' s have to live with every working day. It is not for the money God knows. The Airtex case will, eventually, prove to be the basis for a Royal commission into the absolutely immoral behavior and poor performance of the authority over the past few years.

OK. For a 6 pack; who said (public record) ? " The authority is not responsible for safety, but for ensuring a safe verdict for judges".
No criticism, bollix. Churchill - " Bugger on!". P.S. He won.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 13:17
  #4 (permalink)  
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Question And Fron the CASA website:

I wonder. . .

Before taking action to vary, suspend or cancel a certificate, CASA provides the holder with written details of the facts and circumstances that CASA believes warrant the proposed action and, except in a case involving an immediate safety threat, provides them with a reasonable opportunity to show cause why the action should not be taken.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 13:18
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thorn bird

This should be a wake up call for every operator in Australia. We are not dealing with anyone acting with probity, mostly industry rejects with inflated ego's out to prove a point, therebye increasing their likelihood of promotion. There are various Dubious characters out there trying to make a name for themselves, beware! Its a very sad to say but it would seem that the days when one could seek advise and council from our regulator are long gone, unless your prepared to pay for it. With the current regime to seek council and advise (without your lawyer present) is at your peril, anything you say can and WILL be twisted out of context, massaged to make the "evidence fit the crime" and used against you in a court of law. Disagree with them or critisize and mate you are out of business!!Anyone talking to CASA today should remember three replies "Yes".."No" or "cant remember" then find a good lawyer if you can afford one.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 13:22
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CASA is not there to guide you and help you and make aviation safe for all. They are there to punish you. And like most government depts, they are largly laws unto themselves.

I cannot believe that this would happen without issues a statement to show cause.

Snoop dog, you really are an ill informed ignoramus.

If you would just go shove your head back up your ass, and leave that sort of ignorance out of it.

Last edited by RatsoreA; 23rd Jul 2010 at 14:11.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 14:34
  #7 (permalink)  
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thorn bird

well said that man
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 16:20
  #8 (permalink)  
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snoop doggy dog, you are right on the money. I know of their practices and procedures. And yes, it will be much safer for the public and for future and current pilots if their doors never open again.
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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 18:12
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Snoopy doggy dog and oneday_soon,

You say you
know of their practices and procedures
The pay was not the best, but I spent two years working for them and I tell you, you couldn't be more wrong.
I guarantee you, no operator will beg you to write up snags and ground their aircraft. It is up to the pilot. I grounded those a/c whenever they needed to be. Have stopped and overnighted at times because I was fatigued, even though "CAO's and Fatigue Management" said I could continue, and I can promise you not one word from ops, the hangar, or the Austrian as to why, not once was I asked to explain myself.
Now if you would refuse to do it because you were worried about your job, then don't blame Airtex for that.

Hope they are up and running soon and everyone has their jobs back, but I am afraid CASA's tricks may force them out.

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Old 23rd Jul 2010, 23:13
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There is a very famous scene in the movie Tora Tora Tora, where Admiral Yamamoto say " I fear we have woken the sleeping dragon who will take a terrible revenge"

This time round CASA has perhaps woken a man with both the resolve and the resources to see justice as an end.

To those two on this thread who for personal reasons - envy or revenge want Airtex etc closed remember there are some 70 families that depend upon them for their livelyhood and well being. This has been arbitarily taken away by a few who appear to have no reason except to get "a notch on their belt" and to further a dubious career.

These CASA gentlemen should be aware that Dick Smith did one very good service to our Industry that has yet to be used. CASA employees may be personally liable for their actions. It will just take one person to proceed against a CASA employee to bankruptcy to bring this point home.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 01:55
  #11 (permalink)  
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I noticed Skymaster were advertising for PA31 drivers yesterday.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 02:10
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some 70 families that depend upon them for their livelyhood and well being. This has been arbitarily taken away by a few who appear to have no reason except to get "a notch on their belt" and to further a dubious career.
You want to be very, very careful saying stuff like that. Despite the ever-popular swipes at CASA and their motives, they simply cannot take the well-being of employees into account when making safety-related decisions - their job is to protect the public, not the company. Despite the way some people love to hate CASA, and despite some past indiscretions, they always look at the legal side when making these decisions and I doubt they would have acted without serious and substantial concerns.

In this case, there seem to be rather too many issues in too short a time for comfort.

CASA may sometimes overstep the mark, but many of the companies they take action against are far from blameless.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 02:15
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Your an idiot assymetric. You had best open your eyes and read when quoting who has said what

It is your responsibility to not fly fatigued and stop if you are, so you are not endangering the lives of people. Hence the need for a good safety culture to educate people like yourself. No one forced you to work there mate. Working sixteen hour days for one hundred and fifty dollars. Good luck to you, it was your choice mate

They certainly operate differently now they do not have their own maitenance, or is it the pilots' working there are willing to fly aircraft with multiply snags to get the job done?

Best to clean the industry up, and have operators that respect their employees and have a good safety culture in their operations.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 02:18
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RATsoreA, snoop doggy was flying for this mob directly/indirectly when you were still on your mummas tit, fortunately for him he moved onto the shiny jet. Snoop doggy tried in the past to bring one dodgy operator to the attention of CASA ( I was witness in one of the meetings ) but they refused to step in, he resigned from that mob just before they drove an aircraft into a hill. So RATsoreA, although this is an anonymousrumour mill, he has had more to do with CASA and trying to prevent (unsuccessfully) fatals before they occurr than you have probably had hot dinners. snoop in the end found it easier to walk away from GA and join an airline. RATsoreA, if you tried to bring an accident waiting to happen 10 years ago mate to the attention of CASA, you would known what balls it took to risk ending your own career so you could sleep at night with a clear conscience.

Last edited by tiger19; 24th Jul 2010 at 04:08.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 02:48
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How do you get envy or revenge out of the above threads dhavillandpilot?

Was there a Metro and recently a PA31 that killed people from this company?

If envy or revenge is wanting good operators to service people in Australia, whilst cleaning out the rest, I guess it is as you say.

Having casual employees who will tow the line (because they want the twin hours or whatever), do what is required (long hours, low pay, work fatigued, etc) is not at all conducive to a good safety culture. Sooner or later the latent failures line-up and disaster strikes, as it has with this company .

The good thing for the seventy families is that they will have their loved ones coming home tonight, as CASA is doing what it should have done a long time ago. The regulator acts too slowly and should have guided this company on a tighter rein it seems. Example, Transair operated for some time before they were finally closed.

It will be interesting to see what safety culture changes the company put in place since the first disaster. If the company employed people full time since disaster one, then I guess the were moving in the right direction. I doubt it though and what have my money on the line drivers still being casual so they are at the companys' beck and calling .

For the record mate, I have always choosen where I work and walked away from operators when it did not seem right. I had a good bit of advice when I started out twenty years ago and have used it as a measure;

"If someone asks you to do something that's not right or fly an aircraft that is not serviceable, don't do it and walk away. Even if they say there are people to replace, walk away, you keep your good reputation and a better opportunity will come your way."
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 03:40
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for personal reasons - envy or revenge want Airtex etc closed
Mate, there is no envy or revenge here. I am out, I have chosen not to fly anymore for a living. But I have been in and around the industry for 20+ years now, an emotion plays a big part in people's thinking. People are so desperate to fly, that they will compromise there own lives to get into the air. They justify what they are doing or are just so blinkered by what they are trying to achieve that they convince themselves companies such as the ones in question should continue to operate. It is Tunnel vision.

My God, it is amazing to me what people are prepared to do to fly.

Just remember there is so much more to life than flying. It took me a long time to realise that, but i am lucky i did.

Good Luck all.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 03:52
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Location: Dirranbandi
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CASA’s decision to suspend Skymaster Air Services and Avtex Air Services is also based on issues relating to the safety culture of the operations, aircraft maintenance control and pilot training.
Now tell me who couldn't see that one coming.... The person concerned is just about on his last legs with ANY Australian operator. I know we made that mistake once, Airtex was probably the only mob who would touch him - or maybe they never reference checked him.

Dieter and SD, you don't deserve this, it was brought to you by the other two industry lightweights concerned. I wish you the best.
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Old 24th Jul 2010, 23:25
  #18 (permalink)  
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Whom are you referring to... the current Skymaster CP or former incumbents?

Last edited by GADRIVR; 25th Jul 2010 at 07:48. Reason: typo
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Old 25th Jul 2010, 01:55
  #19 (permalink)  
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Anyone knows what's wrong with this operator???
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Old 25th Jul 2010, 02:49
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Link to CASA press release is here

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Two Sydney based air operators suspended
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