Virgin Blue hiring
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Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like it would be wise to factor in being based in NZ for at least 5 years on the B737. In regards to the B777 SO positions in Australia - do you progress to B777 FO from the SO position or to the B737 as an FO?
I beg to differ regarding being in NZ for a long time. In fact the opportunity to return to Aus is improving vastly since the integration of VARA. With Tiger going all 737 and accepting transfers from VA in 2018 that becomes a very real option for the NZ guys. Also, VARA being short and no longer releasing guys will help the NZ to AUS transfers (no restriction there). Also, I believe plenty of Ejet crew are leaving to go overseas (think ANA). With the A330 more than likely requiring extra crew to operate to China there could be quite a lot of vacancies coming up in VAA next year!
VARA will have to let crew go its part of their EBA. Just will not be in big numbers like it has been more like a trickle. For new starters going to NZ it will be a lot more than 5yrs.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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It's a bit sad to read all these posts that make out going to NZ is a chore. There are plenty of guys and gals already here and overseas who would give anything to be permanently based in a good job in NZ till retirement. Why don't you leave those job to them and chase jobs where you all want to be ?
It wasn't that long ago that the D & G forums were clogged with scathing posts about how rubbish the NZ contracts were and anyone that flew for them were disowned scum.
Now days nearly every second or third voice on the RT has the twang but when recruitment starts picking up back home (and it will) most will be off in a heart beat and back on pprune about how **** the NZ contracts are.
The irony is staggering
I certainly don't mind our aussie cousins coming over to take the work if you actually want to be here, - hell I'll even personally welcome you with the ol nose bump
but if you want to come over for the quick use, abuse, cheers see ya later, leave it to someone else.
It's a bit like sneaking over to the office/company next door for a dump just because they have flasher toilets. A bit rude really...
It wasn't that long ago that the D & G forums were clogged with scathing posts about how rubbish the NZ contracts were and anyone that flew for them were disowned scum.
Now days nearly every second or third voice on the RT has the twang but when recruitment starts picking up back home (and it will) most will be off in a heart beat and back on pprune about how **** the NZ contracts are.
The irony is staggering
I certainly don't mind our aussie cousins coming over to take the work if you actually want to be here, - hell I'll even personally welcome you with the ol nose bump
but if you want to come over for the quick use, abuse, cheers see ya later, leave it to someone else.
It's a bit like sneaking over to the office/company next door for a dump just because they have flasher toilets. A bit rude really...
Everyone says the VANZ contract is crap but it's actually better than Jetconnect and Jetstar NZ. More pay, more days off and the option to return to Australia. I wouldn't say it's crap in comparison.
Corkey. What you're saying is super hypocritical. Years ago Kiwis flocked to the GA scene in Australia to get their hours up. Most of them are now back in NZ flying for the airlines. So be careful what you say. If things go south in NZ you'll be the first one knocking on the door to get into Australia...
Corkey. What you're saying is super hypocritical. Years ago Kiwis flocked to the GA scene in Australia to get their hours up. Most of them are now back in NZ flying for the airlines. So be careful what you say. If things go south in NZ you'll be the first one knocking on the door to get into Australia...
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Um, no one here in NZ bashing I don't know where you got that impression from.
Perhaps you haven't been reading the prune for that long then. It's all gone quiet now obviously because so many aussies are doing the over here doing the jobs they said they never would. Pacblue, Jetconnect and Jetstar NZ used to be very dirty words on these forums...
VANZ is an entry point into the group now, nobody wanted that but that's how things are now. I have long said the GDOJ was a mistake and they should have left it as a separate list. If you think it is bad now, just wait until the last guys on the protected list get commands and it opens to the wider group - aussie invasion! All for quick commands, a bit of PIC and probably go back to OZ or overseas. And all commuters, shock horror! You haven't seen anything yet.
Yes and I agree, it's a mistake. It used to be a good job and although the $$ was less that ozzy, it was plenty for nz. But the real keeper was the relatively quick commands so for many kiwis it was a lifetime job. All changed now with the gdoj.
Years ago Kiwis flocked to the GA scene in Australia to get their hours up.
Skyhook, I can't argue with you there, but that's not really my point. The kiwis never whinged about low pay in aussie yet flocked over in droves. It was quite the opposite, Australia has always had better wages than NZ, especially in GA and that being one reason, most newbies were more than keen to head over to grasp the opportunities.
What we've got here is very blatantly guys telling everybody on there that they want to go over only to rape the system, get their hours serve their sentence and get out (not just on this thread). When, there are plenty of people who would be more than happy to stick around at what is actually not a bad job and do want to live here for what ever reason.
What gets me most is that eventually the recruiting in Australia will pick up and the vast majority of aussies over in nz will pack bags and head off home and eventually the slagging of the kiwis and their **** Ts & Cs will start all over again all the while the NZ operators are left high and dry.
I can't speak for Virgin but I know that JQnz and JC have had real headaches with this happening for the last year or two, you just might hope their recruiters don't work out who's behind some of the usernames claiming they will take advantage of the system.
That said, good luck to those trying to get in, I hope you stay. I heard 35 positions at Virgin nz
Last edited by Corkey McFuz; 12th Aug 2016 at 05:08.
Quick commands in NZ and AUS were as a result of a one off event that lasted about 6 years. Started by the collapse of Ansett and the subsequent rise of Virgin followed by Jetstar and further fuelled by the "boom". The "boom" was an artificial credit-fuelled event that we have been paying for over the last 8 years. This is set to continue. Glenn Stevens has spoken at length about this.
The fact that there hasn't been a collapse of a major airline or the property market during this period is nothing short of a miracle. It's time first and foremost for the sake of everybody, that we start to take stock of what we have as opposed to what we don't have.
When I did my training, Ansett and Qantas hired a handful of people on a good year. Jet FO's that you would meet at university info nights, were akin to celebrities such was the difficulty in actually making it through GA.
In GA, large numbers of qualified in debt people would hang around the various GA "hot" spots hoping to sweep a hangar. Larger numbers would walk away after years of trying. They were faced with restarting a new career in a new field in their mid 30s, having spent some of their best years sucking up to GA operators and living in squalor.
Flying a jet for an airline from the RHS in AUS/NZ is a privileged position. Forget about commands and focus on being a First Officer and smell the roses. I know some good men who missed out and some that died in GA who would give their right arm to join the bottom of Virgin's dreaded GDOJ list.
As far as I know the GDOJ list has helped most those at the bottom of the list. Redundancies have been avoided and transfers with no endorsement costs have been taking place. Without GDOJ it's also possible that more qualified endorsed jet applicants may have applied leaving the less experienced in GA.
Most of the FO's you might think are going to start commuting to AKL and CHC for a command aren't. They enjoy the job for what it is and have stopped chasing dreams. These are the same FO's that lost 300 seniority spots so the GDOJ list could exist. Rarely do you hear a complaint from them.
Tiger haven't joined the list. Tiger pilots will decide if they want to join via a vote as their EBA needs to be varied to do so. I hope they do as the big picture is options for the next 30 years as opposed to a quick command. In reality if the Tiger pilots vote it up, this will give the group the option to expand Tiger and all their FO's will be in the hot seat for the last quick commands. Good luck to them and welcome.
The fact that there hasn't been a collapse of a major airline or the property market during this period is nothing short of a miracle. It's time first and foremost for the sake of everybody, that we start to take stock of what we have as opposed to what we don't have.
When I did my training, Ansett and Qantas hired a handful of people on a good year. Jet FO's that you would meet at university info nights, were akin to celebrities such was the difficulty in actually making it through GA.
In GA, large numbers of qualified in debt people would hang around the various GA "hot" spots hoping to sweep a hangar. Larger numbers would walk away after years of trying. They were faced with restarting a new career in a new field in their mid 30s, having spent some of their best years sucking up to GA operators and living in squalor.
Flying a jet for an airline from the RHS in AUS/NZ is a privileged position. Forget about commands and focus on being a First Officer and smell the roses. I know some good men who missed out and some that died in GA who would give their right arm to join the bottom of Virgin's dreaded GDOJ list.
As far as I know the GDOJ list has helped most those at the bottom of the list. Redundancies have been avoided and transfers with no endorsement costs have been taking place. Without GDOJ it's also possible that more qualified endorsed jet applicants may have applied leaving the less experienced in GA.
Most of the FO's you might think are going to start commuting to AKL and CHC for a command aren't. They enjoy the job for what it is and have stopped chasing dreams. These are the same FO's that lost 300 seniority spots so the GDOJ list could exist. Rarely do you hear a complaint from them.
Tiger haven't joined the list. Tiger pilots will decide if they want to join via a vote as their EBA needs to be varied to do so. I hope they do as the big picture is options for the next 30 years as opposed to a quick command. In reality if the Tiger pilots vote it up, this will give the group the option to expand Tiger and all their FO's will be in the hot seat for the last quick commands. Good luck to them and welcome.
It's a bit like sneaking over to the office/company next door for a dump just because they have flasher toilets. A bit rude really...
hat we've got here is very blatantly guys telling everybody on there that they want to go over only to rape the system, get their hours serve their sentence and get out (not just on this thread). When, there are plenty of people who would be more than happy to stick around at what is actually not a bad job and do want to live here for what ever reason.
Pilots will do what they need to in order to climb the ladder, always have. We've had to put up with kiws temporarily over here because it better suits their goals, now the shoe is on the foot. God knows I've never had 1 or 532 kiwis in the RHS of a dash tell me how **** Au is and how they can't wait to get into AirNZ. It cuts both ways.
Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 12th Aug 2016 at 08:03.
Only info I have is interviews are currently underway in Brisbane. VANZ need 36 FO's in the next 18 months but that figure is apparently under-estimated. Also, the recruitment department are having trouble with lack of applications. The requirements to apply are higher than that of Emirates.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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What is the outlook for a 777 SO? Obviously exceedingly long time to FO on the 777(10 years+?), is it possible to go straight to being Aus based 737 FO(Virgin or tiger)(5 Yearsish?) inline with seniority?
viewsonic, by the time a 2016-hire SO gets senior enough to get near a 777 window seat there won't be a 777. Both widebodies will one day be replaced by a single type, but don't hold your breath for that one. Yes it is quite normal for 777 SOs to move to Aus based 737s, especially now the E190 is going. No one is forced to go to NZ, it's just a quicker path to 737.
I foresee movement in the bottom half of the list as airlines like QF are recruiting. Where you join today may end up fairly quickly up the list. It's hard to tell what will happen with new owners/management etc. Certainly the 330 going into Asia could change things in a big way.
As a new joiner I'd forget about time to FO slot on a wide body as these slots are generally filled by people with seniority equivalent of a narrow body command. Very few spots and filled by junior Captains or senior FO's.
As a new joiner I'd forget about time to FO slot on a wide body as these slots are generally filled by people with seniority equivalent of a narrow body command. Very few spots and filled by junior Captains or senior FO's.
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Come join virgin.
Pros:
- Only 10 brisk years to FO in oz! It'll fly by.
- Starting pay less than the cabin crew.
- Most attractive employer in Australia (not voted on by actual staff).
- Opportunities to visit some of the best parts of the world (Anaheim and Dunedin to name a couple).
- Max respect for all your worldly flying experience when you get to become an FO.
Cons:
- Finding ways to spend your tens of dollars you earn each month!
Get on board!
Pros:
- Only 10 brisk years to FO in oz! It'll fly by.
- Starting pay less than the cabin crew.
- Most attractive employer in Australia (not voted on by actual staff).
- Opportunities to visit some of the best parts of the world (Anaheim and Dunedin to name a couple).
- Max respect for all your worldly flying experience when you get to become an FO.
Cons:
- Finding ways to spend your tens of dollars you earn each month!
Get on board!
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Why would you join Virgin unless you were desperate for a job? The system is very much now against you. Let's have a look at it:
You will now join the seniority list below VARA and most likely below Tigerair as well. Only entry points on to the jet fleet are VAINZ and 777 SO. Even now it's taking guys at least 5 years to transfer from either one to yes, just an FO slot on a 737. Yay!
Think about it, the company is shrinking its fleet and now you're below VARA and most likely Tigerair as well. Like others have suggested, 10 years is not out of the question.
So there you are, living in NZ indefinitely away from home flying for an Australian carrier and you've only just realised why VAINZ has such a large attrition rate with guys next in line for a command even leaving, or; a 777 SO on yes, less money (and about to become much less) than the Flight Manager and treated us such.
Unless VA announce some "concrete" plans for expansion and actually place a significant physical order for wide body aircraft, 10 years in a substandard job just so you can then fly a 737 as an FO is not worth it.
There are many better options out there, including most likely your current job.
You will now join the seniority list below VARA and most likely below Tigerair as well. Only entry points on to the jet fleet are VAINZ and 777 SO. Even now it's taking guys at least 5 years to transfer from either one to yes, just an FO slot on a 737. Yay!
Think about it, the company is shrinking its fleet and now you're below VARA and most likely Tigerair as well. Like others have suggested, 10 years is not out of the question.
So there you are, living in NZ indefinitely away from home flying for an Australian carrier and you've only just realised why VAINZ has such a large attrition rate with guys next in line for a command even leaving, or; a 777 SO on yes, less money (and about to become much less) than the Flight Manager and treated us such.
Unless VA announce some "concrete" plans for expansion and actually place a significant physical order for wide body aircraft, 10 years in a substandard job just so you can then fly a 737 as an FO is not worth it.
There are many better options out there, including most likely your current job.
I guess it depends on your individual circumstances. If you are young single and flying props it could work well. I wouldn't assume that because you are beneath VARA and possibly Tiger that you will have to wait for every pilot on that list to move on to get a slot on what you want. Half the VARA list is in Perth and most of those guys aren't interested in east coast bases. Some of the VANZ guys want to live in NZ. Some Virgin FO's won't want to go across to Tiger should the opportunity arise. Anyway I say, take what you can get. Good luck with it.
Out of interest and to allow a reasonable comparison
If you join QF as a second officer, how long can you reasonably expect to be sitting in the back? Once you are in the right hand seat of something, a 737 I assume, how long to command?
I ask as I know of one bloke who retired a few years ago as a 747 skipper who spent 14 years as a SO, only about 6-8 months as a FO and the rest as a captain.
Genuine question and one I guess which is almost impossible to answer with any sort of accuracy.
If you join QF as a second officer, how long can you reasonably expect to be sitting in the back? Once you are in the right hand seat of something, a 737 I assume, how long to command?
I ask as I know of one bloke who retired a few years ago as a 747 skipper who spent 14 years as a SO, only about 6-8 months as a FO and the rest as a captain.
Genuine question and one I guess which is almost impossible to answer with any sort of accuracy.
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Snakecharmer: how long is your string?
At the moment S/Os are apparently not bidding for Adelaide and Perth 737 FO slots so not long for that.
(Many are holding out for East coast on 737 or A330).
I fly with FOs with 20 years who cannot get an East coast command. (But could go to Adl/Per).
Times change quickly though!
At the moment S/Os are apparently not bidding for Adelaide and Perth 737 FO slots so not long for that.
(Many are holding out for East coast on 737 or A330).
I fly with FOs with 20 years who cannot get an East coast command. (But could go to Adl/Per).
Times change quickly though!
https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/about-us/company-overview/virgin-australia-history/