Opportunity with start-up in Hawaii - NZ company
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First 700 hours - 400 private flying, 300 instructing. As I said earlier, I have never paid for an endorsement (or "type rating" as we call them)... in fact, my first employer paid for my pommy instrument rating... the '80s were great... 
Remoak, it sounds like you have had a good run with your career and are happy with where you are now. That's great for you and congratulations for what you have achieved, but not everyone aspires to the same career path.
I spent several years flying in GA and the regionals and I wouldn't change it for anything. I thoroughly enjoyed the flying, went to a lot of wonderful places I never even knew existed, and made some life long friends along the way.
Sure it's taken me a long time to make it to the left seat of a jet, and financially I'm sure you're way ahead of me, but I've really enjoyed the journey that got me where I am today and I am still enjoying it now.
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, back to the topic................
I spent several years flying in GA and the regionals and I wouldn't change it for anything. I thoroughly enjoyed the flying, went to a lot of wonderful places I never even knew existed, and made some life long friends along the way.
Sure it's taken me a long time to make it to the left seat of a jet, and financially I'm sure you're way ahead of me, but I've really enjoyed the journey that got me where I am today and I am still enjoying it now.
Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, back to the topic................
hmmmm bit over the top there remoak. Recently very low timers have been going to DASH 8s etc. and a few onto jets below 2000 hrs. Things have changed quite a bit here recently. Plus the days of employer paid endorsements have been gone almost as long in Europe as here in Australia. In fact the latest Easyjet cadet scheme is pretty shocking - see that thread. Now I hear of schemes to employ pilots for Northern summer months only!
BTW Captains on the 100 seat jet here at band camp are on $143K basic so with the difference in cost of living there is probably not much in it. There have been some sub 2 year upgrades to command as well.
I do wonder what happend to the heli student that ran up $184K in student loans!
BTW Captains on the 100 seat jet here at band camp are on $143K basic so with the difference in cost of living there is probably not much in it. There have been some sub 2 year upgrades to command as well.
I do wonder what happend to the heli student that ran up $184K in student loans!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sue Ridgepipe
Don't get me wrong, my career path is neither the only or the best one. Mostly it was shaped by airline bankruptcies, booms and busts, that sort of stuff.
At the end of the day, you choose the path you want, no path is any better or worse than any other IMHO. All I'm saying is if you want to advance quickly, you are far better off doing it somewhere other than Oz. But if you like the GA scene and the place itself, then all power to you and enjoy the ride!
If it makes you feel any better, I've had enough of the airlines now and I'm thinking about getting back into GA. The airline life isn't necessarily a very satisfying one.
All this is quite relevant to the topic, which is basically about an alternate path to commercial flying.
slice
Not true. The majority of airlines will type-rate you on the basis of a bond. Only the lo-cos require the type rating.
What is "band camp"?
Don't get me wrong, my career path is neither the only or the best one. Mostly it was shaped by airline bankruptcies, booms and busts, that sort of stuff.
At the end of the day, you choose the path you want, no path is any better or worse than any other IMHO. All I'm saying is if you want to advance quickly, you are far better off doing it somewhere other than Oz. But if you like the GA scene and the place itself, then all power to you and enjoy the ride!
If it makes you feel any better, I've had enough of the airlines now and I'm thinking about getting back into GA. The airline life isn't necessarily a very satisfying one.
All this is quite relevant to the topic, which is basically about an alternate path to commercial flying.
slice
the days of employer paid endorsements have been gone almost as long in Europe as here in Australia.
What is "band camp"?
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: aus
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah? I know of Doctors and other NZ 'Professionals' who refuse to return to New Zealand so they DON'T have to pay their student loans back, hardly a level playing field 
What happens if 10-20 years from now someone turns up on your door in Australia to tell you your house now belongs to the NZ Government. There has always been talk of an agreement between NZ and AU regarding student loans. A child support reciprocal agreement between Australia and New Zealand came into force on 1 July 2000. I wouldnt be able to sleep at night if I were these people.
Bankrupt yourself in NZ when you get your first Australian job. 3 years later you'll be discharged, free CPL and more than likely an Australian ATPL to boot.....
The more of you that do this the better, the money will stop and the GA industry in Australia may get back on track
The more of you that do this the better, the money will stop and the GA industry in Australia may get back on track
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Australia is the penal colony, not New Zealand. We don't do that sort of thing...
And I wouldn't particularly want to fly with anyone who did. People who demonstrate a lack of integrity in one area of their life, usually do so in others and such people are a liability. Who the hell cares if you falsify a logbook or a tech log, it doesn't really matter, right? Nobody gets hurt, right...?
Exactly the same thinking as deliberately avoiding paying your debts.
And as for Aussie GA getting back on the right track, it isn't a few Kiwis that are the problem...
And I wouldn't particularly want to fly with anyone who did. People who demonstrate a lack of integrity in one area of their life, usually do so in others and such people are a liability. Who the hell cares if you falsify a logbook or a tech log, it doesn't really matter, right? Nobody gets hurt, right...?
Exactly the same thinking as deliberately avoiding paying your debts.
And as for Aussie GA getting back on the right track, it isn't a few Kiwis that are the problem...
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jezza
Tell him that then. I hear that he has tentatively set up interviews with Aussies at the Gold Coast to be confirmed this week.
Must be waiting to see how many Kiwi's want to take him up on his offer.
Is he just wanting a verbal or has he asked for the cash?
Be carefull!!
Biggles
Tell him that then. I hear that he has tentatively set up interviews with Aussies at the Gold Coast to be confirmed this week.
Must be waiting to see how many Kiwi's want to take him up on his offer.
Is he just wanting a verbal or has he asked for the cash?
Be carefull!!
Biggles
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought that the 5k was to cover US immigration etc. and that he has ditched the Hawaii idea in favour of setting up domestically in NZ.
I like to think that I am quite an intelligent person but this is puzzling the hell out of me.
I like to think that I am quite an intelligent person but this is puzzling the hell out of me.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys guys guys (and girls). Please dont give this guy any money.
I reluctantly admit to being sucked in by a similar scheme in 1999. Times were tough, no one was hiring, Air Nelson wanted 5000 hrs and turboprop time to get RHS on the Metro etc etc. As a 350 hr CPL/MEIR pilot it didn't look good. CityJet were offering a Bandit rating and 500 hrs of RHS time with the promise of a job at the end. The only catch, $22 000 to cover " training costs". A rip off I know, but around 40 others had done it before and everyone I talked to on the inside said it was a good punt. After getting a loan, secured against my fathers house (cheers dad), I signed up. It seemed to good to be true (heard that before?).
After about five months back on the building site the big call up to start training came. After the ground course we were all sent home to await type rating/line training. Back to the building site. Around four months of digging holes later I began to smell a rat. Eventually training began. Just before my line check I turned up for a shift to find a rather large South Auckland lad blocking access to the office. Not to worry I thought, I'll meet the Captain at the plane, only to find two more chaps camped out on the tarmac. So, there ended my little adventure with CityJet.
There were many factors that bought them down, both internal and external, but one thing that was certain was that they were using the $22 000 for purposes other than training. Most of it was taken immediately out of the company and used to buy property for various trusts. One new trainee was even asked to write the cheque not to CityJet, but to Steve Mosen directly.
My rather long winded point is that no company should ever require a new employee to pay anything to secure a job. Some airlines do require pilots to have a type rating prior to training which is unfortunate. However this guy isnt doing that. He is straight out trying to get your cash. Maybe he will use it to build the business, maybe not. Either way, its not going into your training. This is not a "Bond". Pretty much all employers put pilots under a bond. This is only for actual costs of trining and is for a reasonable time frame. ie, $3000/one year for a light twin, up to around $30 000/two years for a jet. However, no money changes hands unless the pilot leaves before the bond period is up.
Pleeeaaase dont give this man your money. I strongly doubt that it will lead to a good job and lots of twin hours. I know its easy for people like myself who have got the jet job to dole out advice but I cant help myself.
Post script. After chasing the two owners of CityJet for our money back, including a court judgment that they had to pay, they declared themselves bankrupt and jumped the country. Then low and behold, one of them turned up on "Dragons Den" last year proclaming himself a millionaire property developer!
I reluctantly admit to being sucked in by a similar scheme in 1999. Times were tough, no one was hiring, Air Nelson wanted 5000 hrs and turboprop time to get RHS on the Metro etc etc. As a 350 hr CPL/MEIR pilot it didn't look good. CityJet were offering a Bandit rating and 500 hrs of RHS time with the promise of a job at the end. The only catch, $22 000 to cover " training costs". A rip off I know, but around 40 others had done it before and everyone I talked to on the inside said it was a good punt. After getting a loan, secured against my fathers house (cheers dad), I signed up. It seemed to good to be true (heard that before?).
After about five months back on the building site the big call up to start training came. After the ground course we were all sent home to await type rating/line training. Back to the building site. Around four months of digging holes later I began to smell a rat. Eventually training began. Just before my line check I turned up for a shift to find a rather large South Auckland lad blocking access to the office. Not to worry I thought, I'll meet the Captain at the plane, only to find two more chaps camped out on the tarmac. So, there ended my little adventure with CityJet.
There were many factors that bought them down, both internal and external, but one thing that was certain was that they were using the $22 000 for purposes other than training. Most of it was taken immediately out of the company and used to buy property for various trusts. One new trainee was even asked to write the cheque not to CityJet, but to Steve Mosen directly.
My rather long winded point is that no company should ever require a new employee to pay anything to secure a job. Some airlines do require pilots to have a type rating prior to training which is unfortunate. However this guy isnt doing that. He is straight out trying to get your cash. Maybe he will use it to build the business, maybe not. Either way, its not going into your training. This is not a "Bond". Pretty much all employers put pilots under a bond. This is only for actual costs of trining and is for a reasonable time frame. ie, $3000/one year for a light twin, up to around $30 000/two years for a jet. However, no money changes hands unless the pilot leaves before the bond period is up.
Pleeeaaase dont give this man your money. I strongly doubt that it will lead to a good job and lots of twin hours. I know its easy for people like myself who have got the jet job to dole out advice but I cant help myself.
Post script. After chasing the two owners of CityJet for our money back, including a court judgment that they had to pay, they declared themselves bankrupt and jumped the country. Then low and behold, one of them turned up on "Dragons Den" last year proclaming himself a millionaire property developer!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 44
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
offcut - very good of you to post what you wrote. A lot of people on here are willing to preach and advise, not many are willing to help others learn from their own mistakes. Good on you!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ENZED
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very Well said Offcut!
Cityjet, hmmmmmm, I know one young guy who also lost 20 grand.
I wonder if the CAA 'fit and proper person' vetting via the justice department
would return a 'no' vote to be a licence or document holder for these scam artists.??
Cheers
Cityjet, hmmmmmm, I know one young guy who also lost 20 grand.
I wonder if the CAA 'fit and proper person' vetting via the justice department
would return a 'no' vote to be a licence or document holder for these scam artists.??
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you all remember the recent story in the US about the suicide bomber who got through security and onto the plane?......you know the very one that this forum claims that has put off MT from setting up in Hawaii in favour of New Zealand.
What was it Barrack Obama said.....words to the effect of 'I take responsibility.........we had all the intelligence we needed we just did not put it together to work out what was happening'
Well try this for size!!
The cityJet story that Jezza quotes states in it's first paragraph:
Kiwi Airlines....where have I heard that before?
the following is an extract from the seemingly endless business failures taken from the Companies Office website:
MT Director Search
1188557−Kiwi Projects Limited (Registered)
912843−Kiwi Airlines Limited (Struck Off)
*
That is not the only failed airline business that has been registered by this guy!!!!!
Have there been others in the past....and did he try a similar scam?
What was it Barrack Obama said.....words to the effect of 'I take responsibility.........we had all the intelligence we needed we just did not put it together to work out what was happening'
Well try this for size!!
The cityJet story that Jezza quotes states in it's first paragraph:
The names drop off the tongue with dismal regular
ity: Skybus, Kiwi Airlines, Central Pacific Airlines,
K2000 Airlines and CityJet. All of them tried and failed to take on the major players in the airline industry. All of them met a nasty end.
ity: Skybus, Kiwi Airlines, Central Pacific Airlines,
K2000 Airlines and CityJet. All of them tried and failed to take on the major players in the airline industry. All of them met a nasty end.
Kiwi Airlines....where have I heard that before?
the following is an extract from the seemingly endless business failures taken from the Companies Office website:
MT Director Search
1188557−Kiwi Projects Limited (Registered)
912843−Kiwi Airlines Limited (Struck Off)
*
That is not the only failed airline business that has been registered by this guy!!!!!
Have there been others in the past....and did he try a similar scam?
Moderator
PPRuNe does not support scams of this nature. Normally threads of this nature would be removed - to protect those who are intellectually challenged - but on this occasion I left the thread in view, hoping there would be some rational posts.
A fool and his money are easily parted!
Doesn't the concept of a NZ company starting PA31 operations in the US cause alarm bells to ring? Would you not question whether there is a financially viable niche in the Hawaii aviation scene? Indeed, does the proposer actually hold a US FAA air operators certificate and have the requisite aircraft and facilities?
I have no knowledge of this scam but it occurs to me that even if you pay funds into a trust, there must be a trust agreement that gives some form of discretionary control to the scammer - and problems of jurisdiction if you were to test the matter in Court! It will cost far more than your $20,000 loss in legal fees and processes involved in international Court jurisdiction determination.
Why on earth would any employer want to employ Kiwi or Aussie pilots to fly a PA31 in Hawaii? Surely you don't think the US Dept of Immigration would support that scenario when unemployed pilots in the US are a dime a dozen?
I suspect the scammer or his representative may have posted on or viewed this thread and am carrying out an IP search on all posts.
Unbelievable anyone would take this scam seriously!
Walk away and gain employment on your merit and qualifications. Any employer of integrity will never ask for advance fees or bonds.
Caveat Emptor!
A fool and his money are easily parted!
Doesn't the concept of a NZ company starting PA31 operations in the US cause alarm bells to ring? Would you not question whether there is a financially viable niche in the Hawaii aviation scene? Indeed, does the proposer actually hold a US FAA air operators certificate and have the requisite aircraft and facilities?
I have no knowledge of this scam but it occurs to me that even if you pay funds into a trust, there must be a trust agreement that gives some form of discretionary control to the scammer - and problems of jurisdiction if you were to test the matter in Court! It will cost far more than your $20,000 loss in legal fees and processes involved in international Court jurisdiction determination.
Why on earth would any employer want to employ Kiwi or Aussie pilots to fly a PA31 in Hawaii? Surely you don't think the US Dept of Immigration would support that scenario when unemployed pilots in the US are a dime a dozen?
I suspect the scammer or his representative may have posted on or viewed this thread and am carrying out an IP search on all posts.
Unbelievable anyone would take this scam seriously!
Walk away and gain employment on your merit and qualifications. Any employer of integrity will never ask for advance fees or bonds.
Caveat Emptor!
Jezza and the like (anyone who was actually considering this),
Back on page ONE of this thread those who have been there/done that were warning you, yet you pooh poohed most of the concerns and criticisms...so only now you're starting to realise what we see?
The paint is wet, are you going to touch it?
j3
Back on page ONE of this thread those who have been there/done that were warning you, yet you pooh poohed most of the concerns and criticisms...so only now you're starting to realise what we see?
The paint is wet, are you going to touch it?
j3