Merged: Pel-Air Westwind Ditching off NLK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wokingham
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel required...........
Bo777:
I hadn't forgotten.
My last post was a piece I read on the Norfolk Online website.
The author claims to have 13000 hours.
It possibly explains why some pilots will go there with mindbogglingly small amounts of fuel and then run out shortly after arriving, in a quietly heroic way.
I hadn't forgotten.
My last post was a piece I read on the Norfolk Online website.
The author claims to have 13000 hours.
It possibly explains why some pilots will go there with mindbogglingly small amounts of fuel and then run out shortly after arriving, in a quietly heroic way.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where is the F/O? How come she is not standing there dripping wet still in her slides? (With chest exposed)? It seems like one big monumental stuff up, from word go, a pax seriously ill that can tread water for 40 mins, only 3 life jackets, no mayday, no position call, and the greatest sin of any pilot, be they private or commercial, not enough gas. Add to that the loss of a perfectly servicable aircraft, that contains specialist medical equipment, and it all leaves most of us scratching our heads. However as in all accidents, you have to be there, and that young bloke did what most of us would dread, and did it well, will be interesting to hear final report.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sydney,NSW,Australia
Age: 44
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paul is a scary pilot
I hope I never have to sit in a plane behind paul the pilot, one thing he forgot to mention is that the Variable reserve can be re-calculated en-route so the plane only needs to arrive with the 30mins fuel in his estimation...
I personally would prefer to arrive with fuel for an alternate when the weather is forecast to be below the alternate minimum, as is required at any aerodrome, ignoring the remote island requirements all together.
if you chew to much fuel on the way you divert to your alternate before you get there.
this is in my humble opinion (I only have 8000hrs though so what would I know?)
I personally would prefer to arrive with fuel for an alternate when the weather is forecast to be below the alternate minimum, as is required at any aerodrome, ignoring the remote island requirements all together.
if you chew to much fuel on the way you divert to your alternate before you get there.
this is in my humble opinion (I only have 8000hrs though so what would I know?)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stol_King.
I too am having problems with the aviation legends that inhabit my employers pilots room. It would seem that the size of my appendage (which has its own postcode, day care centre and starring role in the next Tarantino film you know) coupled with my outrageous good looks is contributing to a situation where it's just not fun to go to work anymore.
I've tried everything you know but these Australian flyboys just won't accept me unless I agree to have facial surgery that leaves me looking like a surprised version of Michael Caton, electric shock therapy that should leave me with intellectual ability of a confused roadsign as well as signing an agreement that limits my clothes and basic shopping needs to the geographical confines of Blacktown City (southern side)
Whats a lad to do???
Please help......I don't think I can take this torture any longer
I too am having problems with the aviation legends that inhabit my employers pilots room. It would seem that the size of my appendage (which has its own postcode, day care centre and starring role in the next Tarantino film you know) coupled with my outrageous good looks is contributing to a situation where it's just not fun to go to work anymore.
I've tried everything you know but these Australian flyboys just won't accept me unless I agree to have facial surgery that leaves me looking like a surprised version of Michael Caton, electric shock therapy that should leave me with intellectual ability of a confused roadsign as well as signing an agreement that limits my clothes and basic shopping needs to the geographical confines of Blacktown City (southern side)
Whats a lad to do???
Please help......I don't think I can take this torture any longer
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Centrelinki
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spent a year or so flying out to NLK in an RPT 737. Have held for an hour or so, diverted after one approach, etc...both NWWW and AKL and even returned to BNE.
Have seen the WX deteriorate in less than 20 minutes to below the minima, when not even forecast.
About the only constant on that rock is the quality of the service and information given by the CTAF radio operator, the tenacity of the people and the inherent island guts as shown by the rescue crew.
If you have ever seen the NLK reefs, the boat launching crane and the seas that are ever present, you will know what I mean.
I hope next Australia Day I see those guys that were in the launch that night are on the podium for a medal.
Have seen the WX deteriorate in less than 20 minutes to below the minima, when not even forecast.
About the only constant on that rock is the quality of the service and information given by the CTAF radio operator, the tenacity of the people and the inherent island guts as shown by the rescue crew.
If you have ever seen the NLK reefs, the boat launching crane and the seas that are ever present, you will know what I mean.
I hope next Australia Day I see those guys that were in the launch that night are on the podium for a medal.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tallong NSW
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like REX and Pel-Air are in for a whipping.
CASA begins special safety audits of Pel-Air & REX – Plane Talking
CASA begins special safety audits of Pel-Air & REX – Plane Talking
doleque - having been to NLK many times as well I totally agree with your sediments in relation to the rescue crew. Talk about heros and having large 'coconuts', launching the boat in those conditions after seeing sea conditions at Norfolk first hand, and the launch locations, and then having the airport manager after everything else not only organise but crew the boat - says a lot for the kind of people out at Norfolk.
Glenn and 'Pinky' before him have had nothing but respect from everyone i've even spoken to who has operated out to Norfolk for their professionalism, the Kentia-link PA31 incident Pinky had a very large involvement in the safe termination of that flight.
The sea out there is angry on a nice day let alone when it turns to crap - then add night along with it, lesser people would have refused to launch in those conditions and would have sealed a different fate of the occupants.
I do agree and hope the correct people nominate all involved for bravery awards for an amazing rescue.
Glenn and 'Pinky' before him have had nothing but respect from everyone i've even spoken to who has operated out to Norfolk for their professionalism, the Kentia-link PA31 incident Pinky had a very large involvement in the safe termination of that flight.
The sea out there is angry on a nice day let alone when it turns to crap - then add night along with it, lesser people would have refused to launch in those conditions and would have sealed a different fate of the occupants.
I do agree and hope the correct people nominate all involved for bravery awards for an amazing rescue.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West of Point Byron!!!
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This ditching occured not even 1 week ago.
The amount of **** that some people claim to know about why/when/how this event occured is amazing.
Guys/girls (aka 'f-cking know it all's') out there, pull your heads in and stop claiming to know more than you actually really do.
For those of you that have already jumped up and down putting the boots into the operating crew, have a close look at yourself. You weren't there on the night conducting approach after approach. Nor were you there in planning stages of the flight when it comes down to fuel requirements, alternate choices, etc. Therefore, at these very early stages of the investigation, why don't you let the cat bite your little bullsh-t wagging tounges and not fill this thread with crap.
The amount of **** that some people claim to know about why/when/how this event occured is amazing.
Guys/girls (aka 'f-cking know it all's') out there, pull your heads in and stop claiming to know more than you actually really do.
For those of you that have already jumped up and down putting the boots into the operating crew, have a close look at yourself. You weren't there on the night conducting approach after approach. Nor were you there in planning stages of the flight when it comes down to fuel requirements, alternate choices, etc. Therefore, at these very early stages of the investigation, why don't you let the cat bite your little bullsh-t wagging tounges and not fill this thread with crap.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Centrelinki
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
puff
don't forget the others on the rock that would also have had the wherewithal as well, ie Larry the Harley rider, Dave, Cheryl and all from the "shed" etc etc.
Hard place to get to, but these guys all helped it happen with their intimate wx knowledge and radio assistance.
Not bad for a group of people that descend from those that stole a HMS ship and got an island as a reward.
Thanks guys...and as a well know Aussie boxer would say, "I luvs you all"..
don't forget the others on the rock that would also have had the wherewithal as well, ie Larry the Harley rider, Dave, Cheryl and all from the "shed" etc etc.
Hard place to get to, but these guys all helped it happen with their intimate wx knowledge and radio assistance.
Not bad for a group of people that descend from those that stole a HMS ship and got an island as a reward.
Thanks guys...and as a well know Aussie boxer would say, "I luvs you all"..
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Perth
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of you that have already jumped up and down putting the boots into the operating crew, have a close look at yourself. You weren't there on the night conducting approach after approach. Nor were you there in planning stages of the flight when it comes down to fuel requirements, alternate choices, etc. Therefore, at these very early stages of the investigation, why don't you let the cat bite your little bullsh-t wagging tounges and not fill this thread with crap.
The facts as reported speak for themselves....An operational aircraft RAN OUT OF FUEL.
There really isn't any way out of that.
If it didn't, then it had no business being at sea level.
Everything else that happened may be debated, but a prudent skipper (and every pilot should be...that's what you ultimately get paid for) would not have let the situation deteriorate to where the only option is to emulate a flying boat.
I suggest you cool down and moderate your language. Maybe a long walk off a short pier might help
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gunger, the discerning reader of this thread will have come to the following conclusions,
1. A serviceable aircraft was parked at a level below the Mean Low Water Springs Tidal level
2. No mayday or other communication was given regarding a possible ditching ergo ditching was unintentional ergo CFIT
3. It follows from 2. that no exceptional skill was necessary in the fortuitous outcome
4. On the face of apparent evidence the aircraft was not carrying the necessary fuel as mandated by my reading of the regs.
5. None of the foregoing is criticism of the operating crew since so many other factors come into play eg training, pressure from management, experience
6. I could agree with ZB's erudite "a long walk off a short pier might help", but assume you have the crews interests at heart. The necessary information is there for a reasonable conclusion to be made, and I would be surprised if there were to be too many surprises in the official report (my conclusion). Much is made of the Kangaroo Court attitude of some on these threads, and some do come across that way, but the discerning aviator, whether they be amateur or professional, only have an interest in learning how a fellow practitioner of the art managed to come to grief. We are all fallible.
1. A serviceable aircraft was parked at a level below the Mean Low Water Springs Tidal level
2. No mayday or other communication was given regarding a possible ditching ergo ditching was unintentional ergo CFIT
3. It follows from 2. that no exceptional skill was necessary in the fortuitous outcome
4. On the face of apparent evidence the aircraft was not carrying the necessary fuel as mandated by my reading of the regs.
5. None of the foregoing is criticism of the operating crew since so many other factors come into play eg training, pressure from management, experience
6. I could agree with ZB's erudite "a long walk off a short pier might help", but assume you have the crews interests at heart. The necessary information is there for a reasonable conclusion to be made, and I would be surprised if there were to be too many surprises in the official report (my conclusion). Much is made of the Kangaroo Court attitude of some on these threads, and some do come across that way, but the discerning aviator, whether they be amateur or professional, only have an interest in learning how a fellow practitioner of the art managed to come to grief. We are all fallible.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doleque;
We luv you too, ahh those were the days in the shed were fantastic
. She was a night that we will never forget when VH-NGA went for a dip. Everything worked like clock work in the recovery of the 6 POB missing for that brief moment. Local knowledge was a big factor and with all those involved in the rescue, their knowledge was priceless. But I must make a very special mention, the Duty Unicom Operator, his name is Larry. His contribution from the first radio contact with VH-NAG, right to the very end, was outstanding. 
We luv you too, ahh those were the days in the shed were fantastic
. She was a night that we will never forget when VH-NGA went for a dip. Everything worked like clock work in the recovery of the 6 POB missing for that brief moment. Local knowledge was a big factor and with all those involved in the rescue, their knowledge was priceless. But I must make a very special mention, the Duty Unicom Operator, his name is Larry. His contribution from the first radio contact with VH-NAG, right to the very end, was outstanding.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
doleque, puff - good words and my sentiments exactly.
Happy to wait for the report to come out - to those of you insisting on 'no speculation', most reasonable folk can decipher the truth from the fiction - so there's certainly no harm done in learning a few good lessons (or indeed reminders) some time ahead of the official report.
But back to my point - having lived on the island as a 'guest', and spent the best years of my life with the locals - I have no doubt that these guys are truly heroes. Measured and reserved, reasonable yet determined, the only reason there were no deaths that night was the heroism shown by the rescuers - like others, I will be supporting their nomination for Australians of the Year.
Happy to wait for the report to come out - to those of you insisting on 'no speculation', most reasonable folk can decipher the truth from the fiction - so there's certainly no harm done in learning a few good lessons (or indeed reminders) some time ahead of the official report.
But back to my point - having lived on the island as a 'guest', and spent the best years of my life with the locals - I have no doubt that these guys are truly heroes. Measured and reserved, reasonable yet determined, the only reason there were no deaths that night was the heroism shown by the rescuers - like others, I will be supporting their nomination for Australians of the Year.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Auckland
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it just me or is having an ex government minister as CEO for Pel Air, when they are going for all these government contracts a bit dodgy as I'm sure the ex minister still has friends in high places!??
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm thinking that this bloke is anything but up himself!!!
If fact.......I'd be putting forward the notion that he's more than capable of taking the piss out of himself and the industry to boot!
If fact.......I'd be putting forward the notion that he's more than capable of taking the piss out of himself and the industry to boot!